0
jclalor

PAC barrel rolls

Recommended Posts

PACIFIC AEROSPACE LIMITED SECTION 2
PAC 750XL LIMITATIONS
2-12 DATE ISSUED: 1 December 2003
REVISED: 17 October 2007
2.21 SMOKING
Smoking is not permitted in the airplane.
2.22 PLACARDS
The following operating placards shall be fitted to the airplane in the designated position:
In view of the pilot:


THIS AIRPLANE MUST BE OPERATED IN ACCORDANCE
WITH THE AIRPLANE FLIGHT MANUAL.
THIS AIRPLANE IS CERTIFIED IN THE NORMAL CATEGORY.
FLIGHT INTO FORECAST OR KNOWN ICING CONDITIONS
PROHIBITED.
MAXIMUM OPERATING ALTITUDE 20,000 FT.
NO ACROBATIC MANOEVURES, INCLUDING SPINS,
APPROVED.
SPINS PROHIBITED.
Replying to: Re: Stall On Jump Run Emergency Procedure? by billvon

If the plane is unrecoverable then exiting is a very very good idea.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Really? I hope you are kidding. I would not fly with that pilot ever again. Seriously. No matter how skilled and even respected he may be, he clearly lacks the judgement needed to be a professional pilot for hire.
Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
jclalor

So on the way to altitude in a fully loaded PAC, the pilot performs a couple of unannounced barrel rolls.:)
Any cause for alarm.



Yes.

Prohibited by rules (not acro certified)

Unannounced meant he didn't have "consenting" passengers.

Shows some pretty bad judgement.
Sort of like a TI doing CRW or that sort of "stupid stuff."

I'd make sure the DZO and airplane owner were aware and would be very hesitant about getting on a plane being piloted by that person again.
"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Skydivers with rigs I would presume.

The other examples were on aircraft with completely unsuspecting civilians, press corps, executives.

I'm not sure I'm seeing the difference.
The PAC had a shit ton more "test" flights than that 707 did on her first roll.:P
At the very least I think the PAC has historically proven how tough they are as well as the loads they can handle.

I've "heard" you can accomplish this in a Twin Otter as well.
:o
Twin Beech, most definitely.
B|

I know nothing of the PAC pilot's skill of course. ;-)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Another professional test pilot without a load of skydivers. Flight in violation of the placards is a violation fo the FARs and would probably be characterized as reckless operation.
Charlie Gittins, 540-327-2208
AFF-I, Sigma TI, IAD-I
MEI, CFI-I, Senior Rigger
Former DZO, Blue Ridge Skydiving Adventures

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
jclalor

So on the way to altitude in a fully loaded PAC, the pilot performs a couple of unannounced barrel rolls.
Any cause for alram.



I just spoke to the DZO. Evidently this guy (jclalor) has not jumped at this DZ in a couple of years. I've messaged jclalor to confirm dates.
Several years ago a pilot did barrel rolls in another PAC (not mine).
That pilot was grounded at our DZ because he couldn't fly and was untrainable (IMHO). I informed the owner of that PAC at that time.

If this is an old story, why post it like its new news? What's the agenda? If this did happen, please confirm date and place - anyone?
My plane is flying at this DZ now. And I have a zero tolerance policy against "Pilot Antics". You can contact me at [email protected]
AAP

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ActionAir

***So on the way to altitude in a fully loaded PAC, the pilot performs a couple of unannounced barrel rolls.
Any cause for alram.



I just spoke to the DZO. Evidently this guy (jclalor) has not jumped at this DZ in a couple of years. I've messaged jclalor to confirm dates.
Several years ago a pilot did barrel rolls in another PAC (not mine).
That pilot was grounded at our DZ because he couldn't fly and was untrainable (IMHO). I informed the owner of that PAC at that time.

If this is an old story, why post it like its new news? What's the agenda? If this did happen, please confirm date and place - anyone?
My plane is flying at this DZ now. And I have a zero tolerance policy against "Pilot Antics". You can contact me at [email protected]

I never had the intention to imply that this was a recent incident, in fact, before I saw your post and your IM, I replied to an earlier post saying as much, and then deleted that reply after seeing your IM.





I had no idea that this would be such an issue, and I apologize for any misunderstandings.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
jclalor


I never had the intention to imply that this was a recent incident, in fact, before I saw your post and your IM, I replied to an earlier post saying as much, and then deleted that reply after seeing your IM.





I had no idea that this would be such an issue, and I apologize for any misunderstandings.



I really hope you're just being naive and not disingenuous.

This is a small sport. Everyone knows everyone. Asking a question like the question you asked, in the manner in which you asked it, is going to raise hackles, even if it's a hypothetical. Especially since your DZ.com profile lists a dropzone where a PAC is the regular jump airplane and where a boogie is being held this very weekend.
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I haven't jumped at that DZ for almost 2 years, I've only made a handful in the last 2 years, the last time I was there they lost their PAC. I honestly didn't even know that they currently have a turbine, let alone a boogie this weekend.

And FWIW, who am I the world of skydiving to have, and then execute an "agenda"? If one really had an agenda, they could simply create another user name and then have at it, people do it here all the time.

The simple fact is, while bored at work last night and watching youtube, I saw this:

http://youtu.be/FJacFh_myWI

And that got me thinking about my own PAC experiences, and that's why I asked the question. There was nothing more and nothing less to it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Yes that is cause for alarm.
In the short run, I would refuse to fly with that pilot.
In the long run, the airplane owner will be held liable for the smoldering crater.

This reminds me of why Transport Canada shut down a local flying school recently. It seems that one of the instructors insisted on teaching loops and rolls to student pilots in Cessna 172s. Cessna 172 was never certified for aerobatics. The stupidest thing is that the flying school also had a Cessna 150 Aerobat (certified to teach aerobatics) on line.

Yes the best and brightest of test pilots (Chuck Yeager, Bob Hoover) can do aerobatics in any lightly-loaded airplane (Aero Commander, Boeing 707), but doing aerobatics in a fully-loaded airplane that was never certified for aerobatics is STUPID! Doing aerobatics with paying passengers on board is criminally stupid!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
As others have implied, I believe it can be done in any plane without causing excessive stress. That requires that it be done right. Since it requires skill, there is reason for concern.

I would like to be on the plane for a nice roll if I really knew the pilot had the skill, but not on the way to altitude with a full load. Maybe better would be after they exit.

If I were the owner of the plane, I wouldn't want a pilot I hired to do that - no way.
People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Well there goes the late night rolls in the jet.
hmpf.


FYI - Yes, I know and understand the foolishness and legalities involved as well as the risk.
However comma - it does happen, simply for fun.
I have seen a handful of pilots fired for flying any damn way they felt like.
I support that action.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
wasatchrider

barrel rolls are fun so is zero g
I love fun jumper only loads



For every "fun" jumper that thinks its cool, there's one that hates the airplane ride. And unless you are a owner/operator you typically have no clue what gyros & instruments cost.

You want to do aerobatics, buy your own airplane!
AAP

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

0