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cavscout73

atair alpha/cobalt packing advice

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Just started jumping an alpha 165 and absolutely love it as my first 9 cell. flys beautiful flares great and has lots of glide..

but outside of that the guy I bought it off of says to use a modified psycho pro to pack it, I have tried both that and pro pack and get whipped to shit on opening...
, I pack for many at the dz and always have beautiful openings for them with a pro pack , but I cant seem to dial this canopy in, any input or ideas ?

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Just started jumping an alpha 165 and absolutely love it as my first 9 cell. flys beautiful flares great and has lots of glide..

but outside of that the guy I bought it off of says to use a modified psycho pro to pack it, I have tried both that and pro pack and get whipped to shit on opening...
, I pack for many at the dz and always have beautiful openings for them with a pro pack , but I cant seem to dial this canopy in, any input or ideas ?



Ditto on the H Mod. Had mine done this spring and it improved the openings greatly. I get closed end cells on just about every opening but they are easy to deal with. I highly recommend it.

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Just started jumping an alpha 165 and absolutely love it as my first 9 cell. flys beautiful flares great and has lots of glide..

but outside of that the guy I bought it off of says to use a modified psycho pro to pack it, I have tried both that and pro pack and get whipped to shit on opening...
, I pack for many at the dz and always have beautiful openings for them with a pro pack , but I cant seem to dial this canopy in, any input or ideas ?



You should have no business with an Alpha/Cobalt with 54 jumps...

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You should have no business with an Alpha/Cobalt with 54 jumps...



Wow, I didn't catch that. Good on you. That is way above his experience level. He should be looking for a more appropriate canopy.



Its not the real answer, but a trivial solution for his problem.

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I did not start this post to debate whether I should or shouldnt be jumping this canopy, It was meant as a way to get better openings.....
now are my jump numbers low ? they sure are !!!!
have I put 20 + on it in every wind condition Indiana can give me Yep !!!
have I sought advice by my instructors, mentors and the DZ S&TA sure have. I fly this very very conservatively below 2000 I have no concern with it as long as I remember its a faster and smaller canopy, I am in no way looking to be a swooper or anything like that in any near future.. I am willing to accept any and all advice but I dont want a canopy bash when that is not the point of the thread...
and honestly thank you for the concerns but this is what I jump and in no way plan to change it

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An H-mod will alter how the canopy flies, typically lengthening the recover arc, for example.

With a Cobalt you either have one that opens really well, or you have one that opens really bad. Their quality control was so bad that it was that hit and miss. CobaltDan (the former owner) told me that to "fix" the horribly hard openings on his demo canopy that I should double stow small rubberbands and jump with a PC so small that the container manufacture said that I would be lucky to extract the bag from the container!

The moral of the story is that you may want to take some steps like a pocket or dome slider, but any change you make could have a cascading effect.

I hope that you're better than the many other jumpers who have come before you and you make it through this aggressive canopy choice with only a good scare and no injuries. Good luck!
--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

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An H-mod will alter how the canopy flies, typically lengthening the recover arc, for example.

With a Cobalt you either have one that opens really well, or you have one that opens really bad. Their quality control was so bad that it was that hit and miss. CobaltDan (the former owner) told me that to "fix" the horribly hard openings on his demo canopy that I should double stow small rubberbands and jump with a PC so small that the container manufacture said that I would be lucky to extract the bag from the container!

The moral of the story is that you may want to take some steps like a pocket or dome slider, but any change you make could have a cascading effect.

I hope that you're better than the many other jumpers who have come before you and you make it through this aggressive canopy choice with only a good scare and no injuries. Good luck!



I am in no way the best and I do have concerns with this canopy but in my opinion , it just makes me more aware of treating it aggressively, I in no way want to be another bad statistic..

when ever the prior owner packed it , the openings were the nice two stage that the manufacturer stated, but even if I do everything the same I cant get them. thats why i posted I have felt beautiful openings and ones that rocked the shit out of me ,and the ones that rock me are packed by me

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Most packing issues come down to the basics. Everything neat, everything even and slider control. Goofy standing on one foot, psycho-sideways-packing in the dark doesn't really do a thing if the basics aren't covered.

The problem with aggressive canopy choices isn't when everything goes right. It is when something goes slightly wrong. Slightly wrong has people in canopy collisions or turning low or other goofy things.

Some quality time with a good canopy coach would be a good start for that understanding. Reading a book or the internet is great, but you won't learn nearly as much nearly as fast or as well as with a good canopy coach.
--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

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Most packing issues come down to the basics. Everything neat, everything even and slider control. Goofy standing on one foot, psycho-sideways-packing in the dark doesn't really do a thing if the basics aren't covered.

The problem with aggressive canopy choices isn't when everything goes right. It is when something goes slightly wrong. Slightly wrong has people in canopy collisions or turning low or other goofy things.

Some quality time with a good canopy coach would be a good start for that understanding. Reading a book or the internet is great, but you won't learn nearly as much nearly as fast or as well as with a good canopy coach.



My basics are covered lines are in the middle slider nice and open, cells nicely flaked, I just cant seen to grasp what im missing I have even had people who do the modified psycho pr watch and they cant find what im missing

as far as canopy, I am looking for the next canopy course I can get my butt into I want to learn and have some really good canopy coaches at my dz but I know there are courses like Germains that I would love to attend

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I did not start this post to debate whether I should or shouldnt be jumping this canopy, It was meant as a way to get better openings.....
now are my jump numbers low ? they sure are !!!!
have I put 20 + on it in every wind condition Indiana can give me Yep !!!
have I sought advice by my instructors, mentors and the DZ S&TA sure have. I fly this very very conservatively below 2000 I have no concern with it as long as I remember its a faster and smaller canopy, I am in no way looking to be a swooper or anything like that in any near future.. I am willing to accept any and all advice but I dont want a canopy bash when that is not the point of the thread...
and honestly thank you for the concerns but this is what I jump and in no way plan to change it



Answers you will get in these forums often goes beyond the point (answer) you are looking for. When those with more experience go beyond that answer, in particular, your canopy choice are not bashing anything. People concerned for your well being are pointing out the fact that you have made an aggressive canopy choice for your experience level and don't want to read about you in the incident forum sometime down the road. Another poster here gave you some great advice. Get a competent canopy coach. You mentioned Brian Germain. If you honestly believe this is a wise choice then give him a call and get his opinion on it. Be safe and have fun.

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I did not start this post to debate whether I should or shouldnt be jumping this canopy, It was meant as a way to get better openings.....
now are my jump numbers low ? they sure are !!!!
have I put 20 + on it in every wind condition Indiana can give me Yep !!!
have I sought advice by my instructors, mentors and the DZ S&TA sure have. I fly this very very conservatively below 2000 I have no concern with it as long as I remember its a faster and smaller canopy, I am in no way looking to be a swooper or anything like that in any near future.. I am willing to accept any and all advice but I dont want a canopy bash when that is not the point of the thread...
and honestly thank you for the concerns but this is what I jump and in no way plan to change it



Answers you will get in these forums often goes beyond the point (answer) you are looking for. When those with more experience go beyond that answer, in particular, your canopy choice are not bashing anything. People concerned for your well being are pointing out the fact that you have made an aggressive canopy choice for your experience level and don't want to read about you in the incident forum sometime down the road. Another poster here gave you some great advice. Get a competent canopy coach. You mentioned Brian Germain. If you honestly believe this is a wise choice then give him a call and get his opinion on it. Be safe and have fun.



It may not be my wisest choice or it may be, I for sure dont want to read abot me or have someone else read about me on an incident post, It is the canopy I have and wrong or right I will seek all and any advice on how to safely fly it, I fully understand it is aggressive for my experience level, but I dont believe in any way it cant be done and done safely if its done conservatively , I am under a 1:1 ratio I just re weighed myself and since last updated I am at 142 with about 20 in gear puts me at 162-165 .. I doubt I will find many on here to say its a wise choice in canopy, but if the concerns are there go beyond "dont fly that" give advice on how to safely do so .. I take risks everyday, many years in the military, mountain climbing , white water kayaking etc. I do everything with complete knowledge there are risks involved and that shit can go wrong and has in the past. i rarely take the conservative route and believe that that is why I have succeeded in any sport I have ever put myself into ... every one on here may be correct about the canopy choice but all I can ask is rather than saying Dont do it.. try if you are going to here is the best approach. like previous posters have said " get a canopy coach" that is more in line with reality than telling any extreme type sports person Not to do it !! I m not saying you are wrong at all and you have way more jumps which probably means you are way more right than me.. so give advice on what I can do to better myself with the choices I have made..

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Just started jumping an alpha 165 and absolutely love it as my first 9 cell. flys beautiful flares great and has lots of glide..

but outside of that the guy I bought it off of says to use a modified psycho pro to pack it, I have tried both that and pro pack and get whipped to shit on opening...
, I pack for many at the dz and always have beautiful openings for them with a pro pack , but I cant seem to dial this canopy in, any input or ideas ?



Cobalts are tough to dial-in. I did about a season psyco packing it and then went back to pro pack. Best thing I've found is after you push in the nose, go back to the slider and requarter. When you push in the nose it tends to take the front of the slider and fold it in with the canopy.

If you are still getting slammed you might have a slider problem. Wrong size (too small) or wrong configuration (too square).

Best thing I like about the Cobalt is the fabric. The non-slip coating makes it so easy to pack.

Other than that, I'd probably switch it out for a Rage (or a Pilot at your experience level).



do you just push the nose or would rolling it help along with re checking the slider??

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I did not start this post to debate whether I should or shouldnt be jumping this canopy, It was meant as a way to get better openings.....
now are my jump numbers low ? they sure are !!!!
have I put 20 + on it in every wind condition Indiana can give me Yep !!!
have I sought advice by my instructors, mentors and the DZ S&TA sure have. I fly this very very conservatively below 2000 I have no concern with it as long as I remember its a faster and smaller canopy, I am in no way looking to be a swooper or anything like that in any near future.. I am willing to accept any and all advice but I dont want a canopy bash when that is not the point of the thread...
and honestly thank you for the concerns but this is what I jump and in no way plan to change it



If your ears are closed why to bother asking advices?
Any specific reason for jumping a alpha/cobalt?
Are you just looking for trouble?

I pack both of mine with slider on the stops, nose pushed in the middle of the pack job, slider over the nose and the top-skin rolled nicely tight.

What kind of lines do you have on that? How many jumps on the lines-set?

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I did not start this post to debate whether I should or shouldnt be jumping this canopy, It was meant as a way to get better openings.....
now are my jump numbers low ? they sure are !!!!
have I put 20 + on it in every wind condition Indiana can give me Yep !!!
have I sought advice by my instructors, mentors and the DZ S&TA sure have. I fly this very very conservatively below 2000 I have no concern with it as long as I remember its a faster and smaller canopy, I am in no way looking to be a swooper or anything like that in any near future.. I am willing to accept any and all advice but I dont want a canopy bash when that is not the point of the thread...
and honestly thank you for the concerns but this is what I jump and in no way plan to change it



Answers you will get in these forums often goes beyond the point (answer) you are looking for. When those with more experience go beyond that answer, in particular, your canopy choice are not bashing anything. People concerned for your well being are pointing out the fact that you have made an aggressive canopy choice for your experience level and don't want to read about you in the incident forum sometime down the road. Another poster here gave you some great advice. Get a competent canopy coach. You mentioned Brian Germain. If you honestly believe this is a wise choice then give him a call and get his opinion on it. Be safe and have fun.


It may not be my wisest choice or it may be, I for sure dont want to read abot me or have someone else read about me on an incident post, It is the canopy I have and wrong or right I will seek all and any advice on how to safely fly it, I fully understand it is aggressive for my experience level, but I dont believe in any way it cant be done and done safely if its done conservatively , I am under a 1:1 ratio I just re weighed myself and since last updated I am at 142 with about 20 in gear puts me at 162-165 .. I doubt I will find many on here to say its a wise choice in canopy, but if the concerns are there go beyond "dont fly that" give advice on how to safely do so .. I take risks everyday, many years in the military, mountain climbing , white water kayaking etc. I do everything with complete knowledge there are risks involved and that shit can go wrong and has in the past. every one on here may be correct about the canopy choice but all I can ask is rather than saying Dont do it.. try if you are going to here is the best approach. like previous posters have said " get a canopy coach" that is more in line with reality than telling any extreme type sports person Not to do it !! I m not saying you are wrong at all and you have way more jumps which probably means you are way more right than me.. so give advice on what I can do to better myself with the choices I have made..





"i rarely take the conservative route and believe that that is why I have succeeded in any sport I have ever put myself into ... "

You've pretty much dug in to your position so there really isn't any more to say than this.
Skydiving isn't every other sport and by its nature must be approached very conservatively if one wishes to stay healthy and alive. All I can say is good luck with your approach. :S

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Yes I did dig in on my canopy choice, which is aggressive for my jump numbers, but will take every precaution to continue to fly it safely, including canopy course, other jumpers advice on how to fly this as safely as possible..
And for those that gave the pack advise I will give it a shot and see if it helps the openings

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Spent the past couple days jumping and working with the pack , I got it dialed to at least decent and on heading, psycho pro. With separating the 4 flakes on each side , rolling them in nice big center and the slidef nice and big , if that discription makes sense.. And as far as careful , I am being very conssrvative under 2000 with it , nice easy patterns and nothing more than minor adjustments on final ... I know its not recommended canopy but , I am really loving it , it flys gentle when I want it and up high I can be agressive with it.. Its just really allowed me to realize its potential ( or mine) I honestly wouldnt trade it for anything at this stage in the game....

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I've jumped a few of those types canopies when I had around 2000 jumps. Same problem with bad openings. Dude who gave me the canopy would pack, nice staged openings. I pack it (being a certified rigger) and it opens like a freakin' hand grenade.

My packing suggestion is, modify your bag into one that looks like a trash can, pack it into said trash can bag, and put it in the back alley for trash collection.

I guess my point is that there are some great cheap deals on canopies that are proven to open nicely with little more than just cramming them in the bag. Why fuck with a jankey ass canopy when you can get a cheap one that is easier to pack, opens better, and flies better??

And I won't even go into the more appropriate for your jump numbers comment because it's already been said several times and you've made up your mind about it. So.....Good luck....and do all you can to stay safe.

Peace out!
_________________________
goat
derka jerka bukkake jihad

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Have you search on the forum for cobalt's packing advice?
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=11855;search_string=cobalt%20packing;#11855

I currently have two cobalts 120 (for fun) and 150 (for WS) and I owned 135. The 135 was a little tricky to pack.
In general I pro pack all of them. My current 120 and 150 give me great openings, very soft and on heading nearly every time.
Recently I changed steering lines from cascade down in my 120 as the openings started to be faster and less enjoyable than earlier. It helped a lot. So first check your steering lines and maybe all of them.

I try to pack neatly every time. when I finish dealing with the lines I quarter the slider and put more slider on the front of the canopy. I make sure that the slider is all way down on the stops. Than I make some kind of hood from the slider putting the middle slider edge on the slider stops from the front and the rear side of the canopy. Than I roll 3-4 times the three outer cells on both sides. After that I nicely expose the 3 centre cells and I dont push the cells deep into the packjob, rather I leave the nose exposed. Than I roll the canopy very tidy. The rest is just absolute standard. I have tried this technique on a bad/fast opening Demon 110 and it works well. I'm sure that I dont really need to do that on my current anopies, but this is some how some kind of habit now after my previous Cobalt 135, as before reline it had some fast and hard openings occasionally.

I have considered to make H-mod to my 120, but from Stane (Atari Slovenia) I heard that this would longer the opening time, which I don't want as my 120 opens already very slow. Although I would prefer to have a canopy with longer recovery arc/stronger dive.

In relation to the canopy choice +1 to the others so I won't repeat them.

good luck and search for some advice in the previous topics stated in this forum.
H-mod Cob openings
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UudQzGQWVOw
Standard Cob openings (very boring movie made for information purpose not entertainment ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZ-lw83XxbE

janusz
Back to Poland... back home.

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