Gear checks and dirty looks....

[frazeebd 0]

Well I've got some time at work here and the motivation to share my thoughts, so cheers to everyone who can stick it out and read this!

I did my AFF ground school and level I on September 1st of this year. In this short time, I've seen some eye-opening things regarding safety and gear checks. Now, some days I swear I feel like every jumper on the load wants to give me a gear check before I get on... and to all these people I have nothing to say, but "Thank you!" And I'll never forget when a packer asked me "Wow! You haven't been jumping with you're toggles stowed like that, have you?"

On that note,
On one occasion, I was on the plane when everyone was discussing what they were doing, and it was discovered that two young guys (probably early 20's) were doing a 2-way belly fly, but boarded the plane in the completely wrong spot... people kinda gave them some flak about it, and told them "ok.. well when we get to jump run, just scoot up to here and exit before these people" etc. Well, next thing we know, they changed their tune and said "nah we'll just do head down flight." Now... these 2 were wearing student rental rigs, Navigator 220's. Now for all you folks who haven't been to the Elsinore school.... everyone who trained here knows that those 220's are old and the containers are good for belly down ONLY. I mean I "think" the reserve pin flap stays shut? The rest are gonna be flapping in the breeze, and the bridle may as well be hanging out there too. Anyways, they kept their spot (which happened to be right before me), and on exit I spotted them... they of course went belly down instead of any kind of freeflying. When I landed, I happened to be near them, and walked up to one and said hi and started discussing skydiving since I had never seen them before... well to make a long story short, they were happy to admit neither of them had gone skydiving in about 8 months and they didn't do any refresher or anything... just lied to the front office I guess. Dunno how that slipped through the cracks, but they disappeared quickly after that... I assume they knew they caught attention.

Second experience... this one was the other day. Another newbie jumper I've seen at the dropzone was getting some of his solo's done on the way to his A license (I think he had 17 jumps or something). I noticed that he was a little headstrong about things, but didn't think too much of it... well turns out a little while later, he came walking back pretty shaken... apparently his leg straps loosened completely while under canopy... I mean all the way to the stops. He was obviously shaken and amped, and after turning the rig in and complaining about how the gear was "unsafe", he proceeded to tell me how it was "bullshit" that the dropzone wanted to make him jump student gear, and that he would never jump it again, and was going to go right out and buy his own rig, and damn the dropzone that tries to not let him jump it, etc. etc.
Clearly something fishy here... he and another solo student that was talking to him and on that load both swore he did his leg straps up before he got on the plane.... the rest of civilization says that he probably drew them tight but didn't secure them properly. I agree with that... buckle/strap isn't exactly prone to failure unless the strap is really worn and these were not.

Case 3, and perhaps the one that scared me the most.... I was on a load behind a 3-way. One of the jumpers, a bigger guy, had a student rental rig (he probably had to use the student rig because those are the only way to rent bigger than a 210, and he was on a 240). Well, about halfway through the flight, his buddy noticed that he was shifting around his straps a little bit and checked the size adjustment... he had them set on small, when he was clearly too big for that. So IN THE PLANE in flight, they decide to resize it a bit.... in doing so realize that they couldn't do it with the rig so tight on him, so they went to undo his chest strap to assist... but had a hard time with that because he had done up his chest strap completely wrong. After getting that out and getting the sizing adjusted, they put him back together and all jumped. Since I was also on a 240 and there were only so many, I happened to get that SAME RIG after it was repacked... and on my gear check I found that the Cypress was off. Now I know you don't HAVE to have you're cypress on, but in this case I'd bet dollars to pesos that it wasn't off because he CHOSE to leave it off. The biggest problem I had with this whole thing is that the guy who was sorting him out in the plane was a VERY senior jumper who is buddy-buddy with god and country at the dropzone, and in my honest opinion, could have prevented this or stopped him from jumping due to an obvious lack of proper gear check and knowledge.

On a positive note, it was recently that I was in the plane doing my whole breathing/relaxation thing, and at about 3000 feet tapped the woman next to me and asked to see her altimeter to compare it to mine. She gave me a $1,000,000 smirk that said "sure newbie, here you go" and half cocked her wrist for me to see.... then I proceeded to ask her why her altimeter read almost 750 feet higher than mine. Turns out hers was off and mine was fine.... and graciously enough she made sure she thanked me for being safety conscious.

I guess the whole point is that I have noticed some experienced jumpers cue in to student gear or brand new, shiny gear the way a cat cues on a shoestring... and they start asking questions and checking and double-checking. There are not enough of these people in the world, nor will there ever will be... and a heartfelt thanks to every one of them for the effort. As for me, I learned from experience #2 listed above that even I, with my limited experience, should be paying better attention to my peers... even ones I'm not jumping with.

[UDSkyJunkie 0]

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As for me, I learned from experience #2 listed above that even I, with my limited experience, should be paying better attention to my peers... even ones I'm not jumping with.

Nice job!

I've posted this story on other threads, but one time when I had about 50 jumps I looked at the guy across from me (he had about 400 jumps) and pointed to his incorrectly routed cheststrap (through the back, then strait to the keeper). His eyes got big as dinner plates, and he thanked me profusely... and actually he has also used that story as an example of why everyone should be checking everyone else.

By all means, keep checking others. Everyone makes mistakes, and a lot of the big gear mistakes are easy to catch if you look.

"Some people follow their dreams, others hunt them down and beat them mercilessly into submission."

[lilchief 0]

Just remember to ask before touching the rig, so the jumpers is aware of what you're doing. I won't let anyone I don't trust near my reerveflap since V3 can easily be tucked wrong.

"Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you long to return." - Da Vinci
www.lilchief.no

[peregrinerose 0]

One guy at our DZ, didn't have a license yet, caught a D licensed jumper with a completely unhooked chest strap on the plane. Ever since then I've been telling FJC students that it's important to constantly be watching out for each other and that even they could make a difference in saving someone's life.

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

[frazeebd 0]

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Just remember to ask before touching the rig, so the jumpers is aware of what you're doing. I won't let anyone I don't trust near my reerveflap since V3 can easily be tucked wrong.

Interesting point. I would feel awfully dumb if I undid someones flap for a pin check and had to ask someone else how to retuck it.

[dragon2 0]

Never feel dumb because you don't know something! Much better to ask someone than to do it wrong!

Or, admit you're not sure about this or that rig and have someone else do the check but watch

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[freefalle 0]

My pet peeve is people who refuse to secure or put their helmets on during take off. I used to be guilty of it, until the first time I read about a jump plane crash. The thought of surviving the crash and being killed by the camera flyers 9 pound camera helmet hitting my skull kinda sucks. There's nothing wrong with looking around on an aircraft and checking chest straps. Im not sure why anyone would leave their rig sitting for a week, or even a day between jumps and not have someone check their pin before exit. Some people take a lot of safety issues for granted....

[tdog 0]

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One guy at our DZ, didn't have a license yet, caught a D licensed jumper with a completely unhooked chest strap on the plane. Ever since then I've been telling FJC students that it's important to constantly be watching out for each other and that even they could make a difference in saving someone's life.

I had an AFF student grab a tandem drogue that was on the floor. I definitely teach the "gear" and "safety" issues in the FJC, and tell the students the story about their peer that probably saved the day.

EDITED FOR Clarity

[DeNReN 0]

I had an AFF student grab a tandem drogue. I definitely teach the "gear" and "safety" issues in the FJC, and tell the students the story about their peer that probably saved the day.

please explain

[tdog 0]

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please explain

Which part?

Why it would be bad for a drogue to leave the plane, or why students should be taught to be confident enough to stop something they think could be bad from happening.

Or... How the drogue fell out? Well, even the most careful tandem instructor (or skydiver) can get a drogue handle (pc handle) caught on something pulling it out on the way to the door.

[DeNReN 0]

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please explain

Which part?

Why it would be bad for a drogue to leave the plane, or why students should be taught to be confident enough to stop something they think could be bad from happening.

Or... How the drogue fell out? Well, even the most careful tandem instructor (or skydiver) can get a drogue handle (pc handle) caught on something pulling it out on the way to the door.

your initial statement does not make clear what happened...hence my asking for a explanation...
I however did not ask for "shit" from you in typical DZ.com fashion...I thought more of you tdog....guess I should change my opinion

[tdog 0]

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I however did not ask for "shit" from you in typical DZ.com fashion...I thought more of you tdog....guess I should change my opinion

Oh come on... I was just joking with the sarcasm. I apologize.

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your initial statement does not make clear what happened...hence my asking for a explanation...

I knew if I said WHY the drogue fell out, 100 people would turn this thread into a "TM Sucks" thread... It seemed irrelevant at the time to the fact that a student should know what is bad, and what is good, from day one...

Now that I re-read my post, I see that I did not specify the drogue was on the floor....

[DeNReN 0]

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Now that I re-read my post, I see that I did not specify the drogue was on the floor....

Thanks for the explaination

[diablopilot 2]

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Well, even the most careful tandem instructor (or skydiver) can get a drogue handle (pc handle) caught on something pulling it out on the way to the door.

If they did, they wouldn't have been being "careful" now would they?

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[tdog 0]

1 down, 99 more to go.

(See up a few posts if you are confused.)

[jimjumper 25]

Make sure you know what your looking at and specifically what may be wrong. I once had 2 people try to keep me from climbing out because they thought my cutaway handle was missing/pulled. I was jumping an SOS system at the time. If you don't know what an SOS system is or what to look for then you'll get the point .

[denete 2]

Good post overall, and some good points.

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On a positive note, it was recently that I was in the plane doing my whole breathing/relaxation thing, and at about 3000 feet tapped the woman next to me and asked to see her altimeter to compare it to mine. She gave me a $1,000,000 smirk that said "sure newbie, here you go" and half cocked her wrist for me to see.... then I proceeded to ask her why her altimeter read almost 750 feet higher than mine. Turns out hers was off and mine was fine.... and graciously enough she made sure she thanked me for being safety conscious.

For the experienced jumpers on this forum: is this a recommended practice?

Should a mechanical altimeter be adjusted to match a second mechanical altimeter during a climb to altitude?

- David

SCR #14809

"our attitude is the thing most capable of keeping us safe"
(look, grab, look, grab, peel, punch, punch, arch)

[skinnyshrek 0]

Should a mechanical altimeter be adjusted to match a second mechanical altimeter during a climb to altitude?

Sometimes they will be off according to where you are seated in the plane

http://www.skydivethefarm.com

do you realize that when you critisize people you dont know over the internet, you become part of a growing society of twats? ARE YOU ONE OF THEM?

[peregrinerose 0]

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Should a mechanical altimeter be adjusted to match a second mechanical altimeter during a climb to altitude?

Nope.... if your alti is at 0 when you take off from the ground, it will be on 0 when you land on the same ground. In-air, there can be variation from one alti to the next... if you change yours to match someone else's on the ride to altitude, when you land, it won't be on 0 any more. I've seen altimeters read up to 500 feet differently than mine on the ride to altitude... I've still never made mine match theirs. If you have a question about your altimeter's accuracy, you can always have it checked.

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

[skinnyshrek 0]

if your at the front of the plane your alti may read different to the back. tap is a few times usually works..lol

http://www.skydivethefarm.com

do you realize that when you critisize people you dont know over the internet, you become part of a growing society of twats? ARE YOU ONE OF THEM?

[denete 2]

I'm with you on that one. It's funny that experienced skydivers would do this (maybe there's a more appropriate word than funny...scary?). I knew my own personal answer to my question before I asked it, but wanted to see what the experienced jumpers here thought. Who knows, maybe some of you agree with the lady in question.

- David

FWIW: I bought a used mechanical altimeter a while back and had Mike G. run it through the pressure chamber before using it on a jump.

SCR #14809

"our attitude is the thing most capable of keeping us safe"
(look, grab, look, grab, peel, punch, punch, arch)

[dragon2 0]

I always check mine, and it's not mechanical (neptune). Jumped a skytronic alti once and it read 800ft off in the plane. Nice warning not to trust it in freefall. It read 4000ft when at 1000ft under canopy

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[popsjumper 2]

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..FWIW: I bought a used mechanical altimeter a while back and had Mike G. run it through the pressure chamber before using it on a jump.

David, I've said it before and I'll say it again...I am HIGHLY impressed with your quest for skydiving knowledge and your focus on safety. I wish the hell ALL of us were so diligent. (damn, is that how you spell diligent?). Keep it up, big guy and do the students a favor (and indeed the entire industry) by rubbing some of that off on others. You can do a major service to skydiving by being a leader in promoting knowledge and safety.

...and to the OP:
Thanks...a good heads-up reminder that shit happens and we all can do our little parts in preventing most of it if we simply just pay attention to what's going on around us.

...and to Jen:
Yep. I tell 'em that, "I don't care how many jumps you have or how many jumps the other guys has...if you see something out of whack, tell 'em. You may just save somebody's life. We ALL look out for each other." That's not only is good advice, it also gives the student a sense of empowerment...an opportunity for leading instead of simply following.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[Baksteen 84]

Back when i had only ten or so jumps, I saw a fellow student walking past me. he was wearing a red jumpsuit.

I frowned, looked at his rig, which I thought I recognised as one of our rentals, and sure enough, the release was red too. It took me nearly twenty seconds to locate it from two meters away.
When I pointed this out to him, he gave me a Look, and told me not to worry, he just did his refresher course and therefore he was sure he'd be able to find the release [edit] in one go. And when i asked him to do a dummy, he turned out to be right.[/edit]
He then proceeded to be pin-checked by an instructor, who said nothing.
For some reason i don't remember anymore, the jum ping was put on hold, so the student took off his rig.
I said he might change his jumpsuit while he was at it, but once again he didn't listen. When the jumping resumed, he got another pin-check and once more he passed. Who was I to argue with an instructor?
So I said nothing, and felt bad about it for the rest of the day.
And still do.
Fortunately, nothing happened - but what if it had?
I noticed the error, so I would have been responsible for his accident by keeping my mouth shut. Try to live with that.

"That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport."
~mom

[DougH 270]

Don't tap it, they are fragile!

That is why the rental alti's are allways so fawked up. Every student... tap tap tap tap tap... the whole ride to altitude lol.

Just shake you hand a little if you think it is sticking.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P