Pulse Canopies.. Any thoughts?

[shibu 1]

I have been using rented gear untill yesterday. I demod a Vector rig with a Pulse210 canopy. I usually fly a Rented Navigator 220.

I loved the canopy & the rig. The Pulse is a 9cel Hybrid canopy (ZeroP on top with the more porous material underneath). In the past I have heard that hybrids wear out faster than canopies made from 100% zeroP. The rep said that simply is untrue.

Is there any thruth to this?

[Bip 0]

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Is there any thruth to this?

There might be but I doubt it. I am coming up for my 500th jump on my Pulse. The only reason I would change it is to buy a different colour.

[Olmed 0]

My thougts are that if I Get hooked by this sport I will either by a Silhouette or a Pulse in most probable a Vector container.

[shibu 1]

500... nice... that answers that.

[dks13827 2]

people love the pulse, i hear !!! dave phoenix

[captain_stan 0]

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I will either by a Silhouette or a Pulse in most probable a Vector container.

The more different canopies you try, the better your final choice will be, and the longer you will be satisfied with it.

[PiLFy 0]

The load-bearing surface of a canopy is the upper skin, correct? So, having a lower skin & ribs of PD proprietary F111ish material shouldn't affect longevity, no? Also, the flare shouldn't be any weaker due to the hybrid material, right? Would not a Pulse last just as long as any other well-made canopy?

[shibu 1]

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The load-bearing surface of a canopy is the upper skin, correct? So, having a lower skin & ribs of PD proprietary F111ish material shouldn't affect longevity, no? Also, the flare shouldn't be any weaker due to the hybrid material, right? Would not a Pulse last just as long as any other well-made canopy?

That makes sense. Thanks for the explanation.

[mchamp 1]

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I have been using rented gear untill yesterday. I demod a Vector rig with a Pulse210 canopy. I usually fly a Rented Navigator 220.

I loved the canopy & the rig. The Pulse is a 9cel Hybrid canopy (ZeroP on top with the more porous material underneath). In the past I have heard that hybrids wear out faster than canopies made from 100% zeroP. The rep said that simply is untrue.

Is there any thruth to this?

Even if it were true which it isn't, you would be talking about lasting 4,000 compared to lasting 5,000 jumps. I kind of doubt you'd be on that exact same canopy and size for that long if you have that many jumps.

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[shibu 1]

I was reading about the pulse on PDs website & they call it a mildly eliptical canopy. What does that mean?
I know the cells must not be the same length if they are calling it mildly eliptical, but performace wise are the malfunctions any worse than on a standard square canopy?

[PiLFy 0]

It wasn't an explanation. It was a couple of questions for the more experienced peeps on here.

[captain_stan 0]

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The load-bearing surface of a canopy is the upper skin, correct?

No, the bottom is subject to greater stress and is reinforced to withstand this. OTOH, the top is subject to more UV exposure, for which ZP fabric coating provides protection.

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So, having a lower skin & ribs of PD proprietary F111ish material shouldn't affect longevity, no?

Correct, but for a different reason. It's probably more durable than you think. Strong enough, in fact, that reserves are made from the same fabric. Although the permeability (air leakage) will increase over time, this probably won't affect the performance noticeably nor the strength significantly.

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Also, the flare shouldn't be any weaker due to the hybrid material, right? Would not a Pulse last just as long as any other well-made canopy?

They are known for a weak flare even when new. It might not get much worse with age, but neither will it get any better. A former student bought one of these, and I've never been less impressed with an expensive, new canopy. Big advantages: easy to learn to pack and lower pack volume.

[PiLFy 0]

But Capp_in(?),
If I've mixed it up, & the bottom is the load-bearing skin. (Respectfully, I don't think I have.) Wouldn't they only be good for about 800 jumps, ala F111? Also, I realize PD isn't going to state "BTW, the flare really sux w/our new chute." However, why would they market & push a chute w/lousy performance? I can see the benefits of the Optima for smaller pack volume. In a Main, especially when they already have the Silhouette for that supposed niche?

As an aside. Is a strong flare only matters to us Newbies?

[Olmed 0]

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I will either by a Silhouette or a Pulse in most probable a Vector container.

The more different canopies you try, the better your final choice will be, and the longer you will be satisfied with it.

I was planning to stay a little conservative..And the Silhouette seems as a good first canopy after what I read about it and after I seen it fly (on Youtube..). But the Pulse is also mentioned as a good first canopy.

[captain_stan 0]

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If I've mixed it up, & the bottom is the load-bearing skin. (Respectfully, I don't think I have.)

Yes, I assure you that you have, because the bottom is where the suspension lines are attached, creating stress-points.

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Wouldn't they only be good for about 800 jumps, ala F111?

I have no personal experience with the service life of these hybrid canopies but I know something about how this fabric ages. Uncoated fabric increases permeability with age--this doesn't necessarily weaken it. The lower surfaces can leak a little air without affecting performace so badly, but the top skin is much more critical to performance, hence the shorter life of an all-F111 canopy.

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Why would they market & push a chute w/lousy performance?

OK, it's performance meets the minimum acceptable standard to some skydivers. My point is that it compares poorly to many other models.

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I can see the benefits of the Optima for smaller pack volume. In a Main, especially when they already have the Silhouette for that supposed niche?

I'm a rigger, not a marketing guru--note that the Sillhouette isn't offered w/ low-bulk fabric. I'm not sure why, but it may pack bigger by design. A newbie might want to buy a container to keep long-term and sized for a smaller future main, hence the benefit of a bigger (sq. ft), yet small pack-volume first main. My former student bought a new container and a Pulse with this plan in mind.

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As an aside. Is a strong flare only matters to us Newbies?

Student or expert, who doesn't want a good flare?

[captain_stan 0]

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after what I read about it

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also mentioned as a good first canopy.

Credible information helps us make better decisions, but nothing trumps personal experience. Within a supervised environment, who is more qualified than you to know what you will like to fly? By all means, get some personal advice from those who have earned your trust. But ultimately, you will learn the most from actually jumping different canopies. Opportunities may be limited by your experience and what is available, but take every chance to try different canopies. I borrow gear from others and also lend-out my gear for this purpose, and we have all learned greatly from this experience. This is a big investment, so make sure you will be happy with your choice.

[PiLFy 0]

"The lower surfaces can leak a little air without affecting performace so badly, but the top skin is much more critical to performance,"

That's what I had meant by load-bearing surface. A poor choice of words on my part. I guess it makes enough of a difference to weaken the flare though, huh? Bummer. I've been eyeing the Storm. Although I haven't been able to try one yet. I like the soft openings, but am curious about a seven cell flare vs. a nine cell flare. I've read it should be weaker in a few different sources. Would you say a Storm flares stronger than a Pulse?

[captain_stan 0]

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what I had meant by load-bearing surface.

It would be more accurate to say that the top skin does more work in making lift, but the bottom has higher load-bearing stress points, often utilizing extra reinforcement.

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I guess it makes enough of a difference to weaken the flare though, huh?

Not necessarily. There are many design factors that affect the flare. I don't think there is any reason a hybid canopy cannot perform well in every respect. It's more likely that the Pulse was designed with other priorities than the type of strong, two-stage flare that most experienced skydivers want. Packing and ease of learning may be two of these factors.

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Would you say a Storm flares stronger than a Pulse?

I'd have to see a Storm in action (or fly one) to make that call. There are lots of good canopies on the market, each of which has it's own advantages. All of the ones that I've personally chosen just happen to be all Zero-P construction. But then I don't care about ease in packing, low volume, or ease in learning.

[Rdutch 0]

Im not your typical pulse jumper, but I put some jumps on one recently and loved it. It opened great, was responsive enough to have fun with, and had plenty of flare power to put me softly on the ground. I even got a nice swoop out of it, I did a straight in on it first to see how it would be. I highly reccomend this canopy.

Ray
Small and fast what every girl dreams of!

[captain_stan 0]

What was your wing loading under the Pulse?

[sundevil777 93]

I'll take a stab at explaining why non-ZP fabric works for the bottom skin, regarding wing aerodynamics.

When a wing is flying at high angles of attack (such as during a flared landing), it is very important that the airflow over the top of the wing stay "attached"/not separate from the surface of the wing. If air is leaking out through the top skin fabric too much, then I think it has the effect of separating the airflow. Conditions on the bottom skin of the wing are very different, with separation not being an issue, so leakage through non-ZP fabric doesn't matter.

If it was possible to actually suck air into the wing through/from the top skin, then you get the ability to produce good lift at higher angles of attack, as the airflow stays attached when it otherwise would not. This has been done on some experimental airplanes, including a Boeing 757 testbed that had part of the wing drilled with very tiny holes and a vacuum applied to suck air into the wing. So, air leaking out through the fabric matters a lot for the top skin, but not for the bottom, as long as it is not so much that cell pressurization suffers, therefore I believe the decision to use ZP on the top skin has nothing to do with the durability of the fabric/ability to withstand stress.

I remember reading from reliable sources that ZP fabric is more sensitive to small defects/tears - that if it does rip, or if a small defect or tear is highly stressed, then it is more likely to have a longer rip than non-ZP, so it is a good choice for reserves.

So, that is my 'figuring from the engineering perspective.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[DSE 3]

I jumped Silhouettes for over 1K jumps til I moved to the Storm. The Sil is a hybrid canopy and wear was not a problem, so I'd assume the PD rep is correct.

Been jumping a Pulse 170 for the past 80 jumps, really liking it as a super-soft deployment and landing canopy. It practically lands itself, and is still a bit sporty if you want it to be.

[PiLFy 0]

Doug,
W/experience under both canopies. Please compare the Pule & Storm for landings & openings. What WL are you flying them @? You say the Pulse lands really softly. You have >2K jumps, though. Please keep that in mind when comparing the two.

P.S.: I'm glad you've been able to put >80 jumps on the new knee

[Olmed 0]

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I jumped Silhouettes for over 1K jumps til I moved to the Storm. The Sil is a hybrid canopy and wear was not a problem, so I'd assume the PD rep is correct.

Been jumping a Pulse 170 for the past 80 jumps, really liking it as a super-soft deployment and landing canopy. It practically lands itself, and is still a bit sporty if you want it to be.

How would you compare the Silhouette and Pulse? What would you recommend someone right of AFF course?

[Olmed 0]

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after what I read about it

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also mentioned as a good first canopy.

Credible information helps us make better decisions, but nothing trumps personal experience. Within a supervised environment, who is more qualified than you to know what you will like to fly? By all means, get some personal advice from those who have earned your trust. But ultimately, you will learn the most from actually jumping different canopies. Opportunities may be limited by your experience and what is available, but take every chance to try different canopies. I borrow gear from others and also lend-out my gear for this purpose, and we have all learned greatly from this experience. This is a big investment, so make sure you will be happy with your choice.

Thanks for good advice.