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CharlesFin

My rigger replaced my leg straps..how do i know she did it right?

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No problems learning how to inspect your gear; this is something all skydivers should know.

However, I'd suggest that inspecting factory gear is just as important, if not more important, than inspecting rigger repairs. Almost all the defects I've seen have been on factory new gear (fortunately caught by riggers before assembly.)

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Factory work and the QA of it does not require a rigger.


It requires either a employee trained to do the inspecting (and usually listed as an inspector with the ACO) or a certified rigger.

But we are talking factory work post manufacture....

MEL
Skyworks Parachute Service, LLC
www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com

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Inspecting Factory work is one thing, but inspecting work that already is in questiion is another.The right thing to do is ask someone more prone to knowing the subject matter. Would you not agree?



I always inspect the work as if it's done wrong. New rig, old rig... makes no difference.

Thought that was a common thing amongst riggers.:S
"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
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Hi Mark,

As I said, I do not always agree with you.

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It requires either a employee trained to do the inspecting (and usually listed as an inspector with the ACO) or a certified rigger.



Unless I missed the boat somewhere, no. This type of thing is what goes into the Quality Program, which in turn must be approved by the MIDO. The ACO is for submitting your 'specifications,' etc.

I know of one Quality Program that there is no req'ment to notify the FAA as to the 'trained employee,' only that he/she be listed by the mfr. The MIDO people then, of course, do look over any listings of personnel when they do their Safety Inspections.

I have never seen any FAA req'ment that a licensed rigger must do any production or final inspection. Heck, you do not even have to be a rigger to hold a TSO-authorization.

Just my $0.02 . . .

JerryBaumchen

PS) The 'certification' of 'trained personnel' is another issue entirely unto itself. I do not have enough time left on this earth to get into that. :P

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Unless I missed the boat somewhere, no. This type of thing is what goes into the Quality Program, which in turn must be approved by the MIDO. The ACO is for submitting your 'specifications,' etc.

I know of one Quality Program that there is no req'ment to notify the FAA as to the 'trained employee,' only that he/she be listed by the mfr. The MIDO people then, of course, do look over any listings of personnel when they do their Safety Inspections.




Jerry,
I just was in a phone conference (about 2 hours might I add) with Washington this past Thursday regarding exactly this stuff.

I was left with the knowlege (or lack of) that:

1. Employees need to trained to do the inspection listed in the TSO.In other words, you need to have a training program in place.

2. Inspection stamps are issued to inspectors. This one we see on some products out there,.. not all though. I did not get an answer as to why!

3. Employees (Non-Certificate Holders) that do inspection work can only do it in-house at the specified facility that holds the TSO.

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I have never seen any FAA req'ment that a licensed rigger must do any production or final inspection. Heck, you do not even have to be a rigger to hold a TSO-authorization.



If the worker is a "Contract" person, not an employee, the worker needs to be authorized by the Administrator,hold a certificate, or both.



Also, I put in a good word for ya on Thursday!

Thanks,
MEL
Skyworks Parachute Service, LLC
www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com

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>I have never seen any FAA req'ment that a licensed rigger must do any production or final inspection.

Agreed. There is a common misconception that trained master riggers labor in manufacturer's assembly lines cutting, sewing and setting things on rigs. In reality it's generally local near-minimum-wage people working to a pattern.

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Agreed. There is a common misconception that trained master riggers labor in manufacturer's assembly lines cutting, sewing and setting things on rigs.



There's another misconception!

We are speaking of inspection work, not production work. Again, just the checks and balances area.

The reason some manufacturers require master rigger certificates is simply to CTA or if some work is necessary outside of the Facility they are covered!

MEL
Skyworks Parachute Service, LLC
www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com

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If the worker is a "Contract" person, not an employee, the worker needs to be authorized by the Administrator,hold a certificate, or both.



When AERO was producing emergency rigs for the Space Shuttle I was issued a set of stamps as a contract worker. This was before I had earned my riggers ticket.

They were built under contract not TSO.

Sparky
My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

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Hi Mark,

First & foremost, any of us can agree to disagree.

I included my PS for the exact reasoning of your items 1, 2, & 3.

As I have said, I spent 30 yrs working for the federal gov't in QC matters. I have a lot of experience with 'certificated' and/or 'trained' inspectors.

Just as an example, just what training would anyone use for your 'Employees need to trained to do the inspection?' They could merely look at a drawing for 10 minutes and be considered 'trained.'

Just my thoughts . . .

JerryBaumchen

PS) And any inspection(s) would be listed/detailed/etc in the Quality Program, not in the TSO; just a detail to keep things straight.

PPS) And just no one misunderstands; I like Mark Lancaster personally. He is, without any doubt in my mind, probably the most knowledge person that I have ever met when it comes to sewing machines; Mark is my 'go to guy' when it comes to info on sewing machines.

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Jerry,
Look @ AC145-9

I think some of our stuff is headed down this road now... AADs more than likely... from some of the conversations that I have had.

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As I have said, I spent 30 yrs working for the federal gov't in QC matters. I have a lot of experience with 'certificated' and/or 'trained' inspectors.



The same for me.
I started in the Nuclear world in 1982 dealing with procedures, Hold Points, QA, QC, and etc. at various nuclear plants around the world.
Even in the foreign counties it is somewhat the Bull#[email protected]! as here. It all depends on who reads the stuff and who he reads it to.

PS- and I respect Jerry's opinion as well and consider him a good friend!


MEL
Skyworks Parachute Service, LLC
www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com

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Just to toss in my two cents.....

If you need to have leg straps replaced you must make that 1.) the work is performed by a a master rigger or under the supervision of one and 2.) that the person doing the work has spoken to the manufacturer and understands their approved repair method!

Not all manufacturers repair/replace legstraps the same and unless the manufacturer has been consulted you cannot be sure that the work is being done in an approved method.

Having replaced several leg straps on multiple manufacturer's equipment I know that one manufacturer's method is not the method preferred by other manufacturer's!

Even if you are sure of the rigger's credentials, I you have questions on the methodology, the only one that can certify that an approved method was used is the manufacturer of the equipment. Not even another master rigger could say it was done with an approved method without talking to the manufacturer.

That being said, any competent master rigger can scab on a new leg strap and it should be fine, I just feel that as a major repair 5 min of long distance calling eliminates the "creative rigging" we see that makes us cringe and slackens our jaws! ;p
I would rather be a superb meteor, every atom of me in magnificent glow, than a sleepy and permanent planet.

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