New technique for a pilotchute in tow???

[dgw 8]

I found this movie clip, demonstrating why one 'needs a good reserve pack'. To my untrained eye, it looks like the lucky fellow has a PCIT, rolls onto his back, then slowly hauls in the errant pilotchute, before casually rolling back over and deploying a well packed reserve. It shivered me timbers.

http://www.pointzero.co.uk/reservemovie.htm

[joke]Anybody else using this technique? [/close joke!]


edited to clarify...

[AggieDave 6]

Hell no!

Think about what altitudes you're typically at when this malfunction occurs. Now think about your speed and altitude loss during this malfunction. Now what if the PCIT was from a burr on the pin and not from a routing issue, so you roll to your back and start pulling your PC in only to have the container open...

So many bad scenarios come to mind quickly that I don't believe its a good idea to try this in an emergency situation.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[airtwardo 6]

http://www.pointzero.co.uk/reservemovie.htm

I dunno...if ya look close there's lines and a bag and all kinds of ugly stuff going on there!

I did see a PIC that got hook knifed back in the belly band days....

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[dgw 8]

You're dead right. But, it does look like the fellow's first response is to try and 'Cntrl Z' the deployment of the pilotchute. A sort of 'undeployment'...

[DJL 232]

He is not trying to retract the PC for a second try. Pause it a few times as it played and you'll see that the bridle is caught around his foot which causes the PC in tow/horseshoe. This looks like it pulled him over on his back, the pin is out, and the bag is already bouncing around. He reaches up to try to clear the bridle from his leg and the PC collapses into his burble. He then tries to clear the resulting mess from around himself, chops it and goes to the reserve with his audible screaming. I couldn't tell if he actually got the mess from around his leg.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[JohnMitchell 14]

From timing the video, I estimate he burned up 3000' of altitude doing all that, maybe more. Hard to estimate how low he opened. The wide angle lens makes it look higher than it is. yes, there was more than just a PC in tow. I saw lines and bag. If that much was out, it should have been chopped. Maybe it was a horseshoe. Maybe the jumper will chime in and clear this up for us.

[AggieDave 6]

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If that much was out, it should have been chopped. Maybe it was a horseshoe. Maybe the jumper will chime in and clear this up for us.

Hopefully the jumper will. My response was directed to the OP with reference to his low jump numbers that for a PCIT trying to roll over and reel it is is NOT a good decision.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[docdialtone 0]

It looks like the main bag between his knees in the end of the video. BRB gotta go wipe my ass after watching that!

[popsjumper 2]

Quote

He is not trying to retract the PC for a second try. Pause it a few times as it played and you'll see that the bridle is caught around his foot which causes the PC in tow/horseshoe. This looks like it pulled him over on his back, the pin is out, and the bag is already bouncing around. He reaches up to try to clear the bridle from his leg and the PC collapses into his burble. He then tries to clear the resulting mess from around himself, chops it and goes to the reserve with his audible screaming. I couldn't tell if he actually got the mess from around his leg.

That's how I saw it too. Horseshoe. Did the right thing trying to get the second point of contact off him.

I didn't see a cutaway and was wondering how his reserve handle wound up in his right hand...must have transitioned after deploying, I guess. And that was a good shot of his d-bag in his lap at the end.

All's well that ends well.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[Zing 2]

Look at again. At some point, he appears to get control of the loose bag too. Looked to me like he gets the bag trapped with his left hand and arm, pulls the pilot chute down and holds on to them with his left hand, and fires the spare with his right hand.
You can see the bag and one yellow toggle just before and during the reserve pull.
After the spare is open, he tucks the bag and pilot chute away sort of on his lap, and finally unstows the steering toggles on the reserve.
Even after all that, it looks like he's open above a grand.
Pretty good story to tell around the campfire.

Zing Lurks

[tbrown 26]

Quote

Hell no!

Think about what altitudes you're typically at when this malfunction occurs. Now think about your speed and altitude loss during this malfunction. Now what if the PCIT was from a burr on the pin and not from a routing issue, so you roll to your back and start pulling your PC in only to have the container open...

So many bad scenarios come to mind quickly that I don't believe its a good idea to try this in an emergency situation.

In 1980 a guy named Tom DeMotts was killed at Perris attempting to do the same thing. In those days the pilot chute was mounted on a belly band and he had managed to pack a twist of bridle around his belly band. This was a common cause of PCIT malfunctions in those days and led to the elimination of belly bands. But it killed him all the same. He was seen trying to haul in his p/c for "clean shot" with his reserve (which was probably a round in those days, with no freebag).

A PCIT is an ugly scary malfunction. There simply is NO guaranteed happy ending. But your best - and only - real chance is a fast pull on the reserve. (Pulling your cutaway is optional, some do, some don't. USPA says either way is okay, provided you make your plan ahead of time and stick with it.)

Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity !

[councilman24 36]

Unfortunately we used to have an instructor at our dropzone that "taught" people to do this. I had to 'unteach' several people.

But no, taking this much time and altitude usually ends up much worse. The perrenial debate on whether or not to cutaway first is based partly based on not wasting time cutting away, let alone all of these manuvers.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[in2jumping 0]

Wonder what the best body position would be to deploy a reserve with a PCIT? stable? on your side? sit up? head low?

Someone willing to go up and test this for us?

[councilman24 36]

Flat and stable worked for me. I didn't have time to cutaway first. The main and reserve both began deploying and were snagged by the tree I went into before they were fully open. They were spread out separately in the branches. The reserve bag, f-111 fabric, had friction burns through it but there was NO damage to the reserve. Still haven't figured out how that happened.

Of course the ultimate PC to deploy past is a tandem drogue.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[in2jumping 0]

Ok, how about going into a tracking spiral to clear a PCIT? Figure 5 or so spirals would have the bridle and PC clear and wrapped around your legs?

[denete 2]

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After the spare is open, he tucks the bag and pilot chute away sort of on his lap, and finally unstows the steering toggles on the reserve.

The thought of accidentally letting that bag slip out of my grip scares the hell out of me. I just keep seeing the thing dropping down and inflating (like a paraglider's reserve deployment), then fouling the perfectly good reserve.

Is there any use in pulling the cutaway handle after hauling in a fouled main and having the reserve over head?

My take on the video is that he never cleared the second point of attachment. That's just the way my eyes filled in the gaps in information shown.

- David

SCR #14809

"our attitude is the thing most capable of keeping us safe"
(look, grab, look, grab, peel, punch, punch, arch)

[freeflysteve 0]

Must be bloody strong to pull in pilot chute.!!
Must have dumped out high cos the time it took to sort that shit out and on his back with no ground visuals could have left a big dent in the ground at normal pull height.
Also and only guessing nobody was stupid enough to have done this just for the video,were they!?

Swooping, huh? I love that stuff ... all the flashing lights and wailing sirens ... it's very exciting!

[pirana 0]

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Must be bloody strong to pull in pilot chute.!!
Must have dumped out high cos the time it took to sort that shit out and on his back with no ground visuals could have left a big dent in the ground at normal pull height.
Also and only guessing nobody was stupid enough to have done this just for the video,were they!?

I was kinda wondering the same thing. Amazing coincidence he had this problem high enough to be able to perform that manuever. Or incredibly lucky.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[mircan 0]

My friend went in last june because of PCIT. It was an accuracy jump (no terminal - so he had time, or did he?), normal pull height. He was on his back trying to solve problem for too long. So, maybe you could try to clear PCIT once, but I`ll go with the AggieDave on this one.
Please reconsider this technique...

dudeist skydiver #42

[tfelber 0]

I had a PCIT at around 100 jumps jumping a friends rig. I didn't try to clear it. I treated it like a HS mal and went directly to my reserve with no cutaway. BANG, canopy opens, but when I look up it is the main. I reached for my toggles trying to determine what just happened and there were some loose lines wrapped around my risers. As I was getting these clear of my toggles something hit me in the side with enough force for me to look down. It was the reserve still in the freebag. In the middle of thin king OH SHIT! I stuffed it down the front of my shirt. That handled I released my toggles and landed in the peas. Four or five folks came running out asking if I was OK. I thought I stood up the landing why wouldn't I be OK? They said all they saw was a reserve PC in tow and that was the reason they came running out... I didn't even think about that. Must have looked pretty scary from the ground.

So my friend lands and everyone tells him he almost killed me and my friend said "Everything looked fine from above." It was at this point I started to realize how much trouble I had actually gotten myself out of. A friend of mine actually died from the same mal a few months later.

Today I would definitely have cutaway the main prior to deploying the reserve.

[Bolas 5]

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Amazing coincidence he had this problem high enough to be able to perform that manuever.

Most videographers pull higher.

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[flipper 0]

My take on the Vid .... the PC is thrown ... they suss out that its towin' ... roll onto back ... i think at this point the change in body position results in the bag releasing from the container ... just as the PC is in the process of being pulled in
The PC and bag are trapped and the reserve is cross pulled

From the vid the jumper has loops over his thumbs ... the sort I would associate with a camera suit ...


I kinda reckon this person didnt make up this plan of attack on the spot .... they were real slick in pullin the PC and trappin the bag ...

Whether you agree with the technique or not it was carried out quickley and without to much drama ...

Well done to who ever it was .....

Flipper

[airtwardo 6]

Quote

My take on the Vid .... the PC is thrown ... they suss out that its towin' ... roll onto back ... i think at this point the change in body position results in the bag releasing from the container ... just as the PC is in the process of being pulled in
The PC and bag are trapped and the reserve is cross pulled

From the vid the jumper has loops over his thumbs ... the sort I would associate with a camera suit ...


I kinda reckon this person didnt make up this plan of attack on the spot .... they were real slick in pullin the PC and trappin the bag ...

Whether you agree with the technique or not it was carried out quickley and without to much drama ...

Well done to who ever it was .....

Flipper

Didn't wanna be the 1st to say it...but yeah, hats off to whoever it is.

Cool under fire for sure, must use a wheelbarrel to haul his nads around!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[JerryBaumchen 1,047]

Hi in2,

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Wonder what the best body position would be to deploy a reserve with a PCIT? stable? on your side? sit up? head low?

Someone willing to go up and test this for us?

Quite a few years ago I read somewhere that Strong Enterprises did a series of tests with a tandem drogue in tow. They pulled the reserves flat and stable and never had one that in any way entangled with the drogue. I recall that staying flat and stable & just pulling the reserve was their recommendation for this situation.

HTH,

JerryBaumchen

[benbarclay 0]

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Quite a few years ago I read somewhere that Strong Enterprises did a series of tests with a tandem drogue in tow. They pulled the reserves flat and stable and never had one that in any way entangled with the drogue. I recall that staying flat and stable & just pulling the reserve was their recommendation for this situation.

HTH,

JerryBaumchen

what about for sports gear though?
have there been any experiments on them? or can we assume that if tandem gear will handle it most of the time, sports gear will too?