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thatfreaksam

Looking to downsize to a Jedi 136...

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Well, I'm looking to downsize...

And I'm not really sure what I should be looking at to buy for a canopy. I'm a relatively new jumper, I've got around 250 jumps, and I've always considered myself a safe jumper.

When I was considering downsizing and told people at my dropzone, a flood of suggestions came in for me, and amongst them was the idea of a Jedi 136.

I've researched this particular canopy, and have come back with some info, that it's a highly elliptical canopy, with slow recovery, with fast turns. It's been considered a ground hungry canopy.

I've also tried out a Sabre 1 135, as well as a Stiletto. I really enjoy the way the Stiletto flies, as well as the Jedi, but I'd like to get more opinion from Jedi and Stiletto canopy pilots.

I've spoken to a few on my own dropzone, and they've told me that the Jedi has a tendency to spin up on opening.

I guess the question is, what kind of advice can you give me about flying a Jedi vs. a Stiletto? Or if there is a better canopy out there on the market.

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Are your jump numbers (45 jumps) accurate? If the answer is "yes" then the answer is you shouldn't be under a 135 of any sort, let alone a high-performance ellipitcal.

http://www.bigairsportz.com/pdf/bas-sizingchart.pdf

Plug your jump numbers and exit weight into this chart. Then come back and tell us why you think you shouldn't listen to Brian's advice.
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

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Are your jump numbers (45 jumps) accurate?.



Using my brilliant deductive reasoning skills, I've determined he has around 250 jumps.

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... I'm a relatively new jumper, I've got around 250 jumps,




:)
My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

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Are your jump numbers (45 jumps) accurate?.



Using my brilliant deductive reasoning skills, I've determined he has around 250 jumps.

Quote

... I'm a relatively new jumper, I've got around 250 jumps,




:)


Damn it, Timmay, you always were smarter than me. Or at least better at that reading thing.:$:$:P:D
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

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You've mentioned 3 canopies, a Jedei, a Sabre 1, and a Stiletto.

Each of these canopies is more than 10 years old. Only the Stiletto has been sold recently.

Is there a reason you're only looking at very old parachutes?

_Am
__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

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Besides the fact that they're all old, they're all very different. I have experience on all three. My answer is it depends on what you're looking for out of your canopy.

I had a Jedei 136. Every opening an adventure! For some reason during sub terminal openings it slammed me every time. I had a pocket slider on it and Brian Germaine did a reline with longer "swoop" lineset on it. It was a good canopy. It does have a longer recovery arc. It is also airlocked so it is a rigid wing in flight and it doesn't want to collapse on the ground which can be a pain on windy days. You can pick one up cheap if you can find one but they're difficult to sell if you ever want to. By the way, the Samarai is what developed from the Jedei and they are very similar in characteristics, but the Smarai is more modern and has some of the "bugs" worked out.

The Stiletto is still one of the great canopies out there if it suits the performance characteristics you're looking for. It has a very short recovery arc. It is very toggle responsive, i.e., turns fast. That sometimes leads to inexperienced jumpers piling themselves into the ground if you "reach" with a toggle on landing. It is great for getting back from long spots and I love the way they open although they can be sporty sometimes too.

The Sabre I was a good canopy for it's time, but I just think it's time has run out. I would recommend a Sabre2 or a Spectre if that's the route you're going.

Finally, talk to your instructors. They know better than anybody here how you fly and land and can make a recommendation. I am certainly not doing that. I am merely giving you my perceptions on these canopies. Somebody else will have to steer you in the right direction.
Blues,
Nathan

If you wait 'til the last minute, it'll only take a minute.

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Well, I'm a roughly anywhere from 125-130 on any given day.

For my jump numbers, I'm extremely cautious about landing. I'm always trying to go for a left hand pattern, only right hand if I absolutely have to, and I steer in the harness on my final leg of my pattern. I would never use my toggles on final unless I absolutely had to. I find that I can steer in my harness just fine, and it keeps my canopy level. If I had to use toggles, I'd approach my final in light brakes, so that my canopy isn't dipping forward when I input the toggles.

I'm not a crazy flier either. I like to keep it mellow, but I'm interested in trying out something that's a little more... I don't want to use the word aggressive, because I'm not ready for that... but something that is a little faster than a Sabre 1 or 2.

I feel like I'm ready to downsize, and that a stiletto 135 would be a decent canopy to start flying, but I'm still curious as to what other people think of how they fly in comparison to my experience level.

I'm relatively conservative when it comes to canopy flying... I'm interested in learning more, but slowly.

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I was flying a Sabre 2 150 for quite a while, for most of my jumps... but I've recently played around on a Jedi 136, a few Sabre 1 135's, and a Stiletto 135. I've also been advised to try out a Lotus canopy that is currently for sale at my dz.


I weigh anywhere from 125- 130 on any given day. With a 135ish canopy, it puts me at roughly a 1.1 wingloading.

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The only reason I was looking at these particular canopies, was because these are just a few of the ones offered for sale at this particular time at my local dropzone.

If you have a better canopy in mind, please let me know. I'm open to all suggestions and advice.



Here's a hint for you
When the Stiletto first came onto the market, it's reported that there was a 1000 jump requirement to buy it.

The canopy has not changed since that time. the selling practices have.

I jump a 135 stiletto, I down sized from a hornet 150 when i had 400 jumps, I STILL jump the stiletto and i have almost 1200 jumps now.

Dont be in such a hurry to go elliptical, try a Sabre 2 135 or a Pilot 132,
You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

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Each of these canopies is more than 10 years old.



And closer to 20.

Our industry moves incredibly slowly, 10 years old is current in terms of parachute design. The Sabre 2 is 10 years old, same with the Samurai, the canopy that replaced the Jedei.
Do you want to have an ideagasm?

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Well, I'm a roughly anywhere from 125-130 on any given day.

For my jump numbers, I'm extremely cautious about landing.

I don't want to use the word aggressive, because I'm not ready for that... but something that is a little faster than a Sabre 1 or 2.




It really sounds like you should stick to the Sabre 2 in maybe a higher wing loading like a 135. The Stilletto and the Jedei are more aggressive canopies.

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The only reason I was looking at these particular canopies, was because these are just a few of the ones offered for sale at this particular time at my local dropzone.



There are many canopies for sale at places other than your home DZ! :)
At your experience level, I would be looking at the Saber 2, Aerodyne Pilot, or Icarus Safire 2.

All of the manufacturers have demo programs, where for a small fee - they'll ship the canopy to you to play with for a few weeks.

Stiletto is not appropriate at your experience level, neither is the Jedei, and the Saber 1 isn't a great choice because it's been replaced by newer canopies that are so much better.

_Am
__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

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Well, I'm a roughly anywhere from 125-130 on any given day.

For my jump numbers, I'm extremely cautious about landing. I'm always trying to go for a left hand pattern, only right hand if I absolutely have to, and I steer in the harness on my final leg of my pattern. I would never use my toggles on final unless I absolutely had to. I find that I can steer in my harness just fine, and it keeps my canopy level. If I had to use toggles, I'd approach my final in light brakes, so that my canopy isn't dipping forward when I input the toggles.

I'm not a crazy flier either. I like to keep it mellow, but I'm interested in trying out something that's a little more... I don't want to use the word aggressive, because I'm not ready for that... but something that is a little faster than a Sabre 1 or 2.

I feel like I'm ready to downsize, and that a stiletto 135 would be a decent canopy to start flying, but I'm still curious as to what other people think of how they fly in comparison to my experience level.

I'm relatively conservative when it comes to canopy flying... I'm interested in learning more, but slowly.



With your own statement of what you're kind of looking at out of a canopy and how you fly, I'd definitely recommend a Pilot. IMO, they are VERY similar to a Stiletto and would be a great transition from the Pilot to the Stiletto.

You mentioned harness turns. When you get an aggressive eliptical canopy, it will be MUCH more responsive to input from the harness. You can pile yourself into the ground on a Stiletto with a harness turn if you're not careful.

Anyway, back to the pilot. To me it flies very similar to a Stiletto, but has even better openings....and I love the way Stilettos open, so even better than that. They are toggle responsive, much more so than a Sabre1 or 2. They have a short recovery arc similar to the stiletto. It is a slightly tapered or "semi-elliptical" canopy (without getting into the discussion of what term means what), in other words, it's not as radically tapered or elliptical as the Stiletto. They have become VERY popular for good reason and are easy to find in all sizes and easy to sell in all sizes. They are not only popular for less experienced jumpers, there are many jumpers with 1000s of jumps that LOVE their Pilots...again, for good reason. The downside is that they will cost a little more than the canopies you mentioned. But that too has an upside, you'll get more out of it if/when you sell it too.

Again, talk to your instructors. But my vote is now for the Pilot based on what you said you want from your canopy and the way you fly. I think that's quite a few Pilot votes........

Edit: There are currently 4 Pilot 132s and 2 Pilot 140s listed on the classifieds. Some of them are in complete rigs so you'd have to ask the seller if they'd sell just the main....or maybe you want the rig, I don't know. Anyway, they're out there.
Blues,
Nathan

If you wait 'til the last minute, it'll only take a minute.

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I'm not in a hurry to try any sort of canopy and that includes an elliptical one. I'm simply looking to downsize and asking the community what kind of advice they can give me about certain ones that have been offered to me for sale.



Based on what you said about your wingloading.. put on ALL of your gear.. jumpsuit.. helmet.. rig... clothing ... shoes... the works and get on a scale.

That is your OUT the door weight and base your wingloading on that.

Of the canopys you listed.. the Lotus might be a better choice.. IF ... its bigger than the others. I put a couple hundred jumps on one while waiting for my Signature Series Samurai to arrive from Brian Germain.
( both of them are newer design airlocked canopies from the same designer as the Jedi)

Old school ellipticals like the Jedi and that Stilletto are not only a conmplete size smaller than that Sabre 2 150 you are jumping.. but you are taking 2 complete sizes in downsize with the addition of change of wing planform.

Oh and the Sabre 1.... duuude.. only buy that if you are a serious masochist that loves getting your ass whooped on every jump.

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I thought a larger slider had tamed my Sabre1 until it opened so hard it broke 9 lines on the left side. That was my second jump on my reserve and my last jump on a Sabre1 B|




I have one sitting in my loft that has a blown cell. It slammed the former owner so hard a few times that she was seeing stars...

I remember another one that GFD Used to jump... and it slammed her ver hard a few times. http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1019950#1019950

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I thought a larger slider had tamed my Sabre1 until it opened so hard it broke 9 lines on the left side. That was my second jump on my reserve and my last jump on a Sabre1 B|




I have one sitting in my loft that has a blown cell. It slammed the former owner so hard a few times that she was seeing stars...

I remember another one that GFD Used to jump... and it slammed her ver hard a few times. http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1019950#1019950


200 jumps on a sabre 150 and never spanked; new owner has also put another 150 on it so far, AND, never spanked! :)
“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

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