buying from people on classified, tips

[schon267 0]

I have seen a complete system on classified I like, talked to owner via email, reached a price, my question is the payment part, I'm a little leery about sending someone almost $2000, without guarantee of him sending rig.
this person said something about sending me a paypal invoice? what's that mean? I know what paypal is , just not that.
help please from anyone who has been through this? thnks

[roostnureye 2]

just find a rigger you trust, use them as an escrow? account.... have the person send the rig to them, and you give them your $, when the rigger checks it out and gives it the ok, then he sends the seller your $ by far the fastest easiest way to do business

Flock University FWC / ZFlock
B.A.S.E. 1580
Aussie BASE 121

[Txflier 0]

+1 If they aren't willing to do that then I think that something seems fishy.

I'm not the rope totin charlie Bronson wanna be that's getting us fucking lost.

[captain1976 0]

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I have seen a complete system on classified I like, talked to owner via email, reached a price, my question is the payment part, I'm a little leery about sending someone almost $2000, without guarantee of him sending rig.
this person said something about sending me a paypal invoice? what's that mean? I know what paypal is , just not that.
help please from anyone who has been through this? thnks

If you go the invoice routine, make sure it says for merchandise or products ONLY and "not" services & products. Merchandise and/or products qualify for protection and a refund, anytime you, or the seller uses "services", it disqualifies any charge-back.

You live more in the few minutes of skydiving than many people live in their lifetime

[hokierower 0]

I just bought my first rig using a variation of this. I bought a main from one guy and the container & reserve from another.

I had the two guys ship everything to my DZ and to a specific rigger who took custody of it. After the main was fully inspected I sent that seller the money. When he received it he called the rigger and said it was all good. After I had the container & reserve checked out and packed I sent the money (check) contingent on a demo jump. Now that I demo'd the container I've released the seller to cash it.

The components have always been in the hands of a intermediary with no connections to either party so if I didn't want to go through with the deal they could send the parts back or if the seller cashed the check before an ok was given, the rig would be in my hands.

Good luck.

[GobbleGobble 0]

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I just bought my first rig using a variation of this. I bought a main from one guy and the container & reserve from another.

I had the two guys ship everything to my DZ and to a specific rigger who took custody of it. After the main was fully inspected I sent that seller the money. When he received it he called the rigger and said it was all good. After I had the container & reserve checked out and packed I sent the money (check) contingent on a demo jump. Now that I demo'd the container I've released the seller to cash it.

The components have always been in the hands of a intermediary with no connections to either party so if I didn't want to go through with the deal they could send the parts back or if the seller cashed the check before an ok was given, the rig would be in my hands.

Good luck.

Just completed a transaction in a similar manner. And about to do another for a main. Most people I've contacted have been ok with that approach.

[schon267 0]

thanks so much for the advise, this will be my 1st rig. love the sport and people in it. u guys n gals are great!

[jumpsalot-2 2]

Be aware of any buyer that you don't know. Check for their name in the "scammer list", you can also look into their activity on DZ.com. You can find the info by click above on "whos online" (below the dark blue strip above), when page opens, click on "view member directory" ( just above online list). Then search out the username. Did they just become a member a month ago ? Did they fill out their user info, or leave it ananymous ? Have they "ever logged in". I've dealt with this before. Example....Daren62....Most buyers are great by the way.

Life is short ... jump often.

[angrypeppers 1]

I bought my rig long distance. I talked to the owner a few times on the phone, and lots of times by email. When we finally agreed on everything, I FedEx'd him a check for half the price, and he sent the rig to my rigger for inspection. When the inspection was complete, I sent another check for the second half by FedEx, and once the check arrived, the seller called my rigger to release the rig to me. Worked out great. There is a lot of trust involved, but I felt comfortable with the seller, else I wouldn't have sent the check.

Burn the land and boil the sea,
You can't take the sky from me.

[DaVinciflies 0]

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I have seen a complete system on classified I like, talked to owner via email, reached a price, my question is the payment part, I'm a little leery about sending someone almost $2000, without guarantee of him sending rig.
this person said something about sending me a paypal invoice? what's that mean? I know what paypal is , just not that.
help please from anyone who has been through this? thnks

I believe that Mike Gruwell at Chutingstar has an escrow service for this kind of transaction. And if you can't trust him, then you can't trust anyone!

[wolfriverjoe 1,339]

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I have seen a complete system on classified I like, talked to owner via email, reached a price, my question is the payment part, I'm a little leery about sending someone almost $2000, without guarantee of him sending rig.
this person said something about sending me a paypal invoice? what's that mean? I know what paypal is , just not that.
help please from anyone who has been through this? thnks

I believe that Mike Gruwell at Chutingstar has an escrow service for this kind of transaction. And if you can't trust him, then you can't trust anyone!

That is correct. Chutingstar offers free escrow, and inspections at reasonable prices.

Tips on escrow from the Chutingstar website:
http://www.chutingstar.com/expertadvice_en/buying-gear/39-used-gear-inspectionsescrow.html

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[Divalent 89]

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That is correct. Chutingstar offers free escrow, and inspections at reasonable prices.

I just used ChutingStar for this exact type of transaction, and it worked very well. Seller shipped the rig to them, I paid $60 for an inspection of everything (container, main, reserve, lines, PC, AAD, etc). I then paid the seller (separately) for the rig and for his cost of shipping, seller authorizes ChutingStar to release the rig to me. Other than the inspection fee, no charge for the transaction. However, a variant of the service is to use ChutingStar for the exchange of funds as well. In that case, I believe there would have been an additional service fee for them to handle the payment transfer (and perhaps if the seller wanted the buyer to at least put up enough to cover two way shipping if the deal went south).

It works out well when both parties are honestly dealing in good faith, and protects both when one party is not.

[bwilling 0]

+1 using a 3rd party escrow.

You'd be nuts to send the seller money before you had the gear, and the seller would be nuts to send the gear directly to you before he has the money.

The only good solution is to use a trusted, verifiable third party. I've bought and sold a bunch of gear online, and that is the only method I'll use for other than nickel/dime stuff. I've never had any trouble as either a buyer or seller using this method.

I've never had anybody refuse to deal this way, either. Why would they? It protects everybody involved on both ends of the transaction!

"If all you ever do is all you ever did, then all you'll ever get is all you ever got."

[nbblood 0]

I disagree that escrow is the ONLY way. It is a very good way, that provides reasonable security, but it's not the ONLY way. Keep in mind a seller has no way of holding a rigger accountable for such a transaction. It may make him/her feel better about it, but if there was a problem, the rigger wouldn't be held accountable. If you think so, think again.

I've done business with several people that gave me good reliable references that I could confirm. I'm not just talking their buddy they jump with (although that may work if it's somebody I know well). I mean reputable, key word reputable, references. I've done business with sending gear or money before receiving. I will most certainly do my homework before doing that though.

There are also some sellers on the classifieds that I wouldn't bat an eye about doing business with. Off the top of my head, GravityGirl, PhreeZone, Diablopilot, and Chutingstar are all either pretty regular on the classifieds or reputable gear dealers or both that I would gladly do business with. I wouldn't worry about sending money to them and hoping they'd deliver. I'm very confident in their reputations.

If a prospective buyer asks me for references, I would gladly provide them. I mean reputable references.

I've never had a problem on the classifieds. But there is a level of homework, i.e., phone calls/emails to the RIGHT people to check out references that goes a long way. I have refused to sell things to some people for various reasons. The flat out scammers are easy to spot and stay away from.

If I'm sending international, I simply will not settle for an escrow arrangement. There is too much time and money in shipping costs for such an arrangement. I can provide you references or the buyer can decide they don't want to take the risk. But I'm simply not sending international for an escrow arrangement. I have sold A LOT of gear overseas and never had a problem.

There is always risk, but if you do your homework, you can find out about a seller or buyer pretty easily. This is a small sport that does pretty good (not perfect) in self-policing. But, if there's something that doesn't seem right, there's probably a reason for that.

Blues,
Nathan

If you wait 'til the last minute, it'll only take a minute.

[bwilling 0]

Point taken, and you're right, it's not the only way. I still believe it's the best way when neither party knows the other party, and the safest way for both parties.

GravityGear and ChutingStar are exactly the kinds of places I want to send gear to for escrow if I'm the seller! I don't need to verify anyone's 'reputable references' if I send the gear to a known gear dealer for escrow. It just seems easier to me to take that approach.

I have actually sent gear directly to folks too, and had folks send me gear directly, but in both cases 'people knew people', even though we didn't know each other. I wouldn't recommend that for your average online transaction, but your mileage may vary. ;-)

"If all you ever do is all you ever did, then all you'll ever get is all you ever got."

[likestojump 3]

nblood covered my thoughts almost to the t, not much to add :)

[ShcShc11 0]

good topic, good advices

[freeatlast 0]

For what it's worth - i sent a rig to a well known loft for an escrow transaction on behalf of one of my customers (from the UK to the US)...

The gear was sold and the buyer asked if the rig could be sent to his rigger before he released funds.

The rigger agreed to notify the purchaser once the rig arrived and the purchaser agreed to release the funds.

However once the rig arrived (shipped at our cost) the purchaser then used the fact to try and renegotiate the price!!

So be aware - unless the rigger actually has the money and agrees to release the money upon the arrival of the gear then the seller is actually at a disadvantage in an escrow situation, because they have already committed to the shipping fees! (not a problem locally but UK to US was approx $400)!!!

So it's definitely worth making sure that all of the parties are onboard and that the escrow agent ACTUALLY HAS THE CASH (or at least a significant part in case the other party defaults or tries to pull a similar stunt)!!

[JerryBaumchen 1,046]

Hi free,

Well put; get your $$$ up front, in escrow before shipping.

A few years ago a friend asked me to sell one of his rig for him. I posted it here with all of the details. The buyer said he wanted it & would I send it to him for inspection by his rigger. The owner said OK, so I did. Then the potential buyer said that the rig was OK but his rigger said that the price was too high.

I was ready to say 'Send it back' but the owner said that he would take the lesser price offered.

What I did not like was that the rig was OK with the pricing originally; the rig was OK upon inspection: but then he decided to 'negotiate' the price.



JerryBaumchen

[rrmtopo 1]

So far I'm not very impressed with some of the folks selling gear in the classifieds....

I'm new back to the sport after school/work/life got in the way, and don't know if it's because I'm a little older and used to transacting business with some character and professionalism but WTF folks?

Say what you're going to do, and then DO what you say you're going to do.

Current seller I'm dealing with agreed before an offer was made for a complete rig to do an escrow deal through (my) very large, well known southern DZ through the DZ manager no less. Upon agreeing to a price he then says send him half the money. No, not what we agreed to, again provided detailed contact information for the DZ manager, seller said he would call and then ship. That was 4 days ago, today he says he lives in a small town and the shipping store will be closed till Monday (quick Google map search shows he is in a suburb of Seattle, with a UPS store 3.5 miles from his house and they were open today & tomorrow). So now the seller is lying to me.

Welcome back to skydiving.

[matthewcline 0]

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Hi free,

Well put; get your $$$ up front, in escrow before shipping.

A few years ago a friend asked me to sell one of his rig for him. I posted it here with all of the details. The buyer said he wanted it & would I send it to him for inspection by his rigger. The owner said OK, so I did. Then the potential buyer said that the rig was OK but his rigger said that the price was too high.

I was ready to say 'Send it back' but the owner said that he would take the lesser price offered.

What I did not like was that the rig was OK with the pricing originally; the rig was OK upon inspection: but then he decided to 'negotiate' the price.



JerryBaumchen

We called that "Ransom" when I was younger.

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[NWFlyer 2]

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Current seller I'm dealing with agreed before an offer was made for a complete rig to do an escrow deal through (my) very large, well known southern DZ through the DZ manager no less. Upon agreeing to a price he then says send him half the money. No, not what we agreed to, again provided detailed contact information for the DZ manager, seller said he would call and then ship. That was 4 days ago, today he says he lives in a small town and the shipping store will be closed till Monday (quick Google map search shows he is in a suburb of Seattle, with a UPS store 3.5 miles from his house and they were open today & tomorrow). So now the seller is lying to me.

Welcome back to skydiving.

I'd say move on - that's not your deal. Let someone else deal with this person.

I've been really fortunate - in all the transactions (both large and small) that I've made over several years in the sport, I've not ever had one go south, either as a seller or a buyer. I've never had someone back out on an agreement. I've never had someone send me an item that wasn't exactly as advertised (okay, there was the guy that sold me a Dytter and said "all it needs is a fresh set of batteries" but when I got it, I found it also needed a fresh set of the worlds tiniest springs, but that was easily remedied. ).

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[JerryBaumchen 1,046]

Hi Matt,

As a retired military-type you should be interested in knowing that the cheapskate buyer was a USAFA cadet.



JerryBaumchen

[matthewcline 0]

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Hi Matt,

As a retired military-type you should be interested in knowing that the cheapskate buyer was a USAFA cadet.



JerryBaumchen

There would be repercussions if his command knew of it.
I had a simular thing happen when I sold a motorcycle to a Artty dude at Bragg, then I PCS'd to Alaska. Sucked big time.

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[rrmtopo 1]

Another deal for a jumpsuit listed with a price or best offer. I offered $20 less & the seller came back in the middle. I accepted & asked how he wanted payment. The next day I got this email:

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Hate to do this to you man, but someone just bought it for full price plus shipping sorry man. (i need the cash)

Blue skies

Lack of character...guess this is the new face of skydiving. I'll just need to lower my expectations... :-)