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MikeRMontagne

Vigil verses Cypress, which would you choose?

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Vigil is cheaper. I'd go with the Cypres just because I occasionally jump from pressurizable airplanes, and Vigils have problems with spurious pressurization issues.



Just out of curiosity, under what circumstances do you occasionally jump from pressurized airplanes?
Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

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Nelyubin, you forgot to say that Airtec sent an employee to Thailand, who had enough Cypres 2s in a suitcase to outfit every jumper who had a Vigil for the rest of the world record, to avoid another mass reserve opening in the plane. You forgot to say that your preferred company did absolutely nothing about that problem.

As we say in Germany, don't throw stones while sitting in a glass house.

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Nelyubin, you forgot to say that Airtec sent an employee to Thailand, who had enough Cypres 2s in a suitcase to outfit every jumper who had a Vigil for the rest of the world record, to avoid another mass reserve opening in the plane. You forgot to say that your preferred company did absolutely nothing about that problem.

As we say in Germany, don't throw stones while sitting in a glass house.

Discussed the problem of the instruments in sealed aircraft. Want to discuss something different - create a separate topic. Or as they say in Russia, not fucking my brain.

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I can't find any information about a BASF plant in "Mathayme". Not that this means it doesn't exist, but could you be so kind to post a little more information :P

For CYPRES: Yes, it's more or less a manufacture, but the "toys" they produce there are of extraordinary quality. B|

The sky is not the limit. The ground is.

The Society of Skydiving Ducks

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As there is no desire to hasten their lazy employees


That's a blank lie and an insult to the folks at Aitrec. Go there, ask for a tour and have a look. You'll see everybody is working.
The sky is not the limit. The ground is.

The Society of Skydiving Ducks

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I'd go with the Cypres just because I occasionally jump from pressurizable airplanes, and Vigils have problems with spurious pressurization issues.


Sorry, I can't agree.
Neither Cypres nor Vigil can't work successfully in the pressurized aircraft.

Cypres manual, page 31:
http://www.cypres.cc/index.php?option=com_remository&Itemid=89&func=startdown&id=190&lang=en
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When using an aircraft capable of pressurization,
make sure that the cabin remains open
when the turbines are started up. Leave a window,
a door, or the ramp open a bit until after
lift-off. It has to be ensured that the cabin pressure
cannot build up above the air pressure on
the ground. (Hint, skydivers altimeters should
never go below „0“.
)
It is the skydiver‘s responsibility to make sure that
jump pilots are informed of these circumstances
that will interfere with the proper function of
CYPRES.
Should a jump pilot be unable to comply
with these requirements, or should you discover
after
a jump that the requirements have not been
met, you should switch CYPRES
off and on
again prior to the next jump. Note that the above
conditions will only lead to a low, or no activation

- therefore there is no risk of a high activation.


Resume:
In Cypres case your AAD will kill you silently. It just won't save you after pressurization. (If you don't like to read manuals, of course. Only in this case.) Because it will recalculate and decrease ground level during pressurization.

If you have some hesitates about manual items, you may ask Airtec directly. They have very friendly and pleasant Support also Vigil has. :)

P.S. I'm Vigil user at this time.

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The biggest problem with Vigils is that they don't filter the pressure info very well, and have fired due to aircraft door openings and car trunk closings. Vigils response was that the units worked as designed, and that jumpers should 'live with it'. They did not admit that the design was a problem, and seek to change it for the better, they just said it worked the way it was supposed to. I guess it was supposed to fire when you open the door of the plane.


Vigil fires as designed not because of bad filter the pressure info. That's why because of Vigil has very low activation altitude (150 ft) if compare it to Cypres activation altitude (1500 ft).

In other words if you jump below 1500 ft Cypres will keep silence opposite to Vigil witch will fire and give you additional chance. This is plus for Vigil. Sadly, other site of coin is misfiring between 150 - 1100 ft if unexpected pressure hop occurs (such as door opening). This is minus for Vigil.

At this time there isn't ideal AAD algorithm on the market witch based on pressure measurement.

But good thing is you are free in your choice: either Vigil or Cypres. :)

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In Cypres case your AAD will kill you silently.



That's where you're making a mistake. If the Cypres senses an odd pressure change, and it shuts down, that does not kill you. You still have the ability to make a safe skydive on your own, and not require your AAD to be involved in the jump in any way. If you are involved in a mid-air collision and are knocked out after your Cypres is switched off, it's the collision that kills you (or the impact with the ground that follows).

For example, if you drown at the beach and the lifeguard does not run out and save you, did the lifeguard kill you?

The Vigil on the other hand, could kill you by firing when you don't want it to. In the door, in the middle of a jump, etc, all times where the firing of the AAD can be cause of a fatality (or several). This is where the Vigil's lack of filtering can lead to firing when you don't want.

The number one job of any AAD, as proven by years of shitty AADs and nobody jumping them, is to 'do no harm'. By that I mean it should not activate until the very last second, only after the jumper has had every chance to handle things themselves. Due to the infinite number of circumstances a jumper might find themselves in, the AAD needs to be able to sit still and wait until it's really a desireable time to fire, and not jump into action when it 'might be' a good time to fire.

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For example, if you drown at the beach and the lifeguard does not run out and save you, did the lifeguard kill you?


If lifeguard watches your drowning and do nothing - yes, it is crime.
If lifeguard makes artificial respiration in wrong way and man dies - it is crime too.
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The Vigil on the other hand, could kill you by firing when you don't want it to. In the door, in the middle of a jump, etc, all times where the firing of the AAD can be cause of a fatality (or several). This is where the Vigil's lack of filtering can lead to firing when you don't want.


Most common mistake is meaning that Vigil is "fucking rip of" Cypres because Cypres was first electronic AAD on the market. Users expect from Vigil the same behavior witch Cypres has. And they make very dangerous mistake. These are very different AADs. Each other has its unique logic with its positive and negative sites. If you don't break manufacture rules - all be OK if unit is serviceable. These rules are described in the manuals. But most users are very lazy to read manuals and when something goes "in wrong way" they are very surprised. :(

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I can't find any information about a BASF plant in "Mathayme". Not that this means it doesn't exist, but could you be so kind to post a little more information :P

For CYPRES: Yes, it's more or less a manufacture, but the "toys" they produce there are of extraordinary quality. B|



Mannheim
In German, it will be written Mannheim.
I see no reason for sarcasm. I think in Russian form a pair of words to write can not.

http://www.basf.com/group/corporate/en/function/conversions:/publish/content/investor-relations/annual-meeting/images/location_plan.gif
http://www.panoramio.com/photo/31611944

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As there is no desire to hasten their lazy employees


That's a blank lie and an insult to the folks at Aitrec. Go there, ask for a tour and have a look. You'll see everybody is working.

I care little as they puff. The result is important. The result of the deplorable
Two months for maintenance ustroistva consisting of a single processor? Work better or change direction (the staff).

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I can't find any information about a BASF plant in "Mathayme". Not that this means it doesn't exist, but could you be so kind to post a little more information :P

For CYPRES: Yes, it's more or less a manufacture, but the "toys" they produce there are of extraordinary quality. B|



Mannheim
In German, it will be written Mannheim.
I see no reason for sarcasm. I think in Russian form a pair of words to write can not.

http://www.basf.com/group/corporate/en/function/conversions:/publish/content/investor-relations/annual-meeting/images/location_plan.gif
http://www.panoramio.com/photo/31611944


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Discussed the problem of the instruments in sealed aircraft. Want to discuss something different - create a separate topic.



Remember your own words!

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I can't find any information about a BASF plant in "Mathayme". Not that this means it doesn't exist, but could you be so kind to post a little more information :P

For CYPRES: Yes, it's more or less a manufacture, but the "toys" they produce there are of extraordinary quality. B|



Mannheim
In German, it will be written Mannheim.
I see no reason for sarcasm. I think in Russian form a pair of words to write can not.

http://www.basf.com/group/corporate/en/function/conversions:/publish/content/investor-relations/annual-meeting/images/location_plan.gif
http://www.panoramio.com/photo/31611944


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Discussed the problem of the instruments in sealed aircraft. Want to discuss something different - create a separate topic.



Remember your own words!

Address them to your countryman.
;)

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Two months for maintenance ustroistva consisting of a single processor?



Is this the standard turn-around time for a Cypres service from Russia? Are you basing this a one-time experience, or is this something that happens on a regualr basis?

To that end, do you have the shipping info to prove how long the unit actually spent at Airtec? They cannot be held responsible for long shipping delays, either inbound or outbound.

What about the unit itself, Airtec fully admits that if a unit does not pass the standard service, it will be subjected to a more in-depth maintenance/testing procedure. Might this have been the source of the delay?

I ask becuase the time of the service itself is very short. Like I mentioned earlier, I can get a Cypres serviced in less than two weeks, but a big part of that is the shipping. I live close to the US service center, and even when paying for regualr shipping, the unit gets there the next day. So if you include shipping both ways, and the weekend in the middle, they service the unit and ship it within 7 business days.

So where exactly do you get this figure of 2 months for a standard service?

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Is this the standard turn-around time for a Cypres service from Russia? Are you basing this a one-time experience, or is this something that happens on a regualr basis?

None. Sometimes this period may be 4-6 months. All through a dealer network Airtek.
At Artek only two units for maintenance. One in Germany, second in the U.S..
Regulations required. ;)

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All through a dealer network



That's the problem right there. If you're working through a network of people, how can you blame Airtec for the delay in service? How do you know where the delay comes from? Maybe Airtec is servicing the unit in an acceptable amount of time, and the dealers are the ones who are holding up the process.

Why not just put it in a box and ship it directly to Airtec? As one of your chief complaints against Airtec, it seems like such an easy fix. Just cut out the middle man and deal directly with Aritec.

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Why not just put it in a box and ship it directly to Airtec? As one of your chief complaints against Airtec, it seems like such an easy fix. Just cut out the middle man and deal directly with Aritec.

for Nelyubin's defense, that is not the way Airtec works AFAIK
scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

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Is this the standard turn-around time for a Cypres service from Russia? Are you basing this a one-time experience, or is this something that happens on a regualr basis?

None. Sometimes this period may be 4-6 months. All through a dealer network Airtek.
At Artek only two units for maintenance. One in Germany, second in the U.S..
Regulations required. ;)



So, send an email to Airtec.

Tell them the serial number of your AAD.

Ask them when they received it, and when they shipped it back.

Then we will know for sure if Airtec was the source of the delay.

You might also ask them that if the service time was unusually long, what the cause was.

Is there a chance that the extreme conditions in Russia make more work during the service?

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Is this the standard turn-around time for a Cypres service from Russia? Are you basing this a one-time experience, or is this something that happens on a regualr basis?

None. Sometimes this period may be 4-6 months. All through a dealer network Airtek.
At Artek only two units for maintenance. One in Germany, second in the U.S..
Regulations required. ;)



So, send an email to Airtec.

Tell them the serial number of your AAD.

Ask them when they received it, and when they shipped it back.

Then we will know for sure if Airtec was the source of the delay.

You might also ask them that if the service time was unusually long, what the cause was.

Is there a chance that the extreme conditions in Russia make more work during the service?


I long ago (2005) refused to poor maintenance Airtek. Now I use the Vigil, and I have no problems.

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In German, it will be written Mannheim.
I see no reason for sarcasm. I think in Russian form a pair of words to write can not.


I just asked for some information. I have never heard of Mannheim being referred to as "Mathayme". That was my point. I didn't express any sarcasm. May it be you are a little touchy? ;)
The sky is not the limit. The ground is.

The Society of Skydiving Ducks

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