Lt. Col. Allen West

[bodypilot90 0]

Colonel refuses to resign amid charges



WASHINGTON, Oct. 31 (UPI) -- A U.S. Army colonel charged with improperly interrogating an Iraqi prisoner refuses to quit and will face a hearing, the Washington Times reported Friday.

The attorney for Lt. Col. Allen West said West has rejected a prosecutor's offer to resign rather than face charges.

"Colonel West will not resign short of his retirement eligibility," attorney Neal Puckett said in an interview.

The staff judge advocate for the 4th Infantry Division has charged West with communicating a threat and aggravated assault for firing his pistol to scare a detainee into divulging information.

That information in turn foiled an ambush of U.S. soldiers in northern Iraq.

Puckett will defend West at an investigative hearing, called an Article 32, scheduled for Nov. 10 in Kirkuk. If enough evidence of wrongdoing is presented, West could be court-martialed and sent to prison for as long as eight years.

The prosecutor offered West two choices: quit before Saturday, his 20-year retirement eligibility, or face criminal proceedings that could lead to a trial.

The assault charges carry a maximum penalty of eight years in prison.



http://washingtontimes.com/upi-breaking/20031031-113801-9689r.htm

[kallend 1,621]

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So if you permit torture, you promote torture?

yes but there wasn't any.

That's not your call. The Army has due process, and no doubt it will be followed to the letter. Apparently the JAG thinks there is prima facie evidence of illegal behavior. Who are you to second guess the JAG?

However, I'm off to the Chicago Military Ball next week and no doubt I'll have the opportunity to ask some generals and admirals what they think.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[bodypilot90 0]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2003/10/30/wirq230.xml&sSheet=/news/2003/10/30/ixnewstop.html

Colonel 'fired gun to scare prisoner'
By David Rennie
(Filed: 30/10/2003)


A colonel in the US army faces a court martial, and up to eight years in prison, after he allegedly frightened an Iraqi into revealing details of an impending attack by firing a pistol next to his head, it was reported yesterday.

Army sources confirmed that Lt Col Allen B West of the Fourth Infantry Division has been charged with aggravated assault and faces either a court martial or being forced to resign early, losing retirement benefits.

The charges have been criticised by soldiers in the field, who pointed to the intense dangers faced in the Sunni triangle near Tikrit, including an assassination plot reportedly aimed at Col West, an artillery officer.

In an e-mail to the Washington Times newspaper, Col West admitted to participating in the interrogation of an Iraqi policeman, identified by an informer as involved in attacks on US forces.

Determined to pry information from the policeman about an impending sniper attack, Col West said he took personal charge of the interrogation, warning subordinates that "it could get ugly".

In his e-mail, Col West said two of his soldiers did "physically aggress" the policeman. When that failed, he threatened the detained man with his 9mm pistol, and fired it twice.

He wrote: "Once I fired into the weapons clearing barrel outside the facility alone, and the next time I did it while having his head close to the barrel. I stood in between the firing and his person. I admit that what I did was not right, but it was done with the concern of the safety of my soldiers and myself."

Col West said he had informed his superiors of his actions, and that he heard nothing more until army chiefs carried out a broader inquiry into the "command-climate" of his brigade.

Col West's wife, Angela, speaking from her home in Fort Hood, Texas, told The Telegraph: "This is very distressing."

[bodypilot90 0]

be sure to ask someone with combat experience not some remf.

[kallend 1,621]

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be sure to ask someone with combat experience not some remf.

Whether you like it or not, you are not the arbiter of truth and justice in this case. The Army has process and you are NOT a part of it. Neither are the news media.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[airtwardo 6]

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However, I'm off to the Chicago Military Ball next week and no doubt I'll have the opportunity to ask some generals and admirals what they think.

***

Gosh Doc...

Could ya maybe sneak us mere mortals out a biscuit or two
to go with the pearls of wisdom you intend to gather?

I would be more interested to hear the opinion
of a troop who's life was spared because of the Intel
gathered and the massacre averted because of this
patriots actions...
Of course those guys didn't make the cut for the
party...they have to WORK that night!

Just curious...
If the WTC disaster could have been avoided
by interrogation of this manner...
Would you punish that as well?

What would your 'moral' standing be if,
A U.S. fighter jet downed a civilian U.S. airliner over
the continental United States...
killing say 377 innocent taxpayers and one hijacker...
in order to "possibly" avert another 9/11/01?

It's 'legal' now, so I know you wouldn't have an issue there..
But is it morally right?

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

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[SkydiverRick 0]

However, I'm off to the Chicago Military Ball next week and no doubt I'll have the opportunity to ask some generals and admirals what they think.

[KawiZX900 0]

I like the General George Patten school of thought in a Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas Hunter S. Thompson sort of way...

Accelerate hard to get them looking, then slam on the fronts and rollright beside the car, hanging the back wheel at eye level for a few seconds. Guaranteed reaction- Dave Sonsky

[kallend 1,621]

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However, I'm off to the Chicago Military Ball next week and no doubt I'll have the opportunity to ask some generals and admirals what they think.

Might learn something.

[CDRINF 1]

We in the U.S. Army are soldiers, not merely killers or thugs like the dirt bags we are fighting. As a soldier, and more importantly as an officer and a leader, you are expected to exhibit a high degree of discipline and self control. Otherwise an Army becomes an undisciplined mob. Commanders are expected to remain calm, cool and collected under stress, and to maintain the moral high ground. It is not about political correctness, it is about DISCIPLINE.

I have been in combat, but I wasn't there. I am sure that the published accounts do not contain all of the facts. It is clear that there is more to this story since the unit in question is being investigated due to command climate issues. Investigations of this sort are not undertaken lightly. This may merely be the most sensational of several incidents that could point to leadership problems within the unit.

On the surface, it seems that the officer in question lost his cool and acted rashly. He came down off the moral high ground. No one should make excuses for him. If the initial published accounts are true, I am not sure I want him leading our soldiers. What is he going to do when life starts getting really stressful and he's facing an enemy who can fight back as opposed to an unarmed detainee?

CDR

[airtwardo 6]

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What is he going to do when life starts getting really stressful and he's facing an enemy who can fight back as opposed to an unarmed detainee?

***

Hopefully take better aim.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

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[kallend 1,621]

Quote

Quote

However, I'm off to the Chicago Military Ball next week and no doubt I'll have the opportunity to ask some generals and admirals what they think.

***

Gosh Doc...

Could ya maybe sneak us mere mortals out a biscuit or two
to go with the pearls of wisdom you intend to gather?

I would be more interested to hear the opinion
of a troop who's life was spared because of the Intel
gathered and the massacre averted because of this
patriots actions...
Of course those guys didn't make the cut for the
party...they have to WORK that night!

Just curious...
If the WTC disaster could have been avoided
by interrogation of this manner...
Would you punish that as well?

What would your 'moral' standing be if,
A U.S. fighter jet downed a civilian U.S. airliner over
the continental United States...
killing say 377 innocent taxpayers and one hijacker...
in order to "possibly" avert another 9/11/01?

It's 'legal' now, so I know you wouldn't have an issue there..
But is it morally right?

Please re-read this thread. I have not made any judgement about the alleged incident. I have restricted my comments to criticizing certain individuals who claim to know the truth and draw conclusions based on reports in the news media, and who criticize the US Army and its internal disciplinary process without any knowledge of what's actually happening.

I know a number of senior officers in all branches of the US military, and based on what I see of their conduct I have complete faith that this issue will be dealt with fairly and competently.

Apparently you and Bodypilot do not have confidence that the US Army can conduct its own affairs.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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[airtwardo 6]

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Apparently you and Bodypilot do not have confidence that the US Army can conduct its own affairs.

***
Well if recent history is any indicator...
The Army conducts it's affairs by conforming
to the wishes of it's outraged boss...ME!

Until two days ago they were sending the
Denver troop and mother of 6..7? back to
the war zone insuring the break up of her family...

Until the 'Boss' gave them a loud and clear WTF!

If similar outrage is shown over this miscarriage of justice,
All charges will be dropped...

Their 'affairs' are rules by opinion polls...
But then you already knew that.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

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[kallend 1,621]

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If similar outrage is shown over this miscarriage of justice,
All charges will be dropped...

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Unless you are in possession of all the facts, which I doubt, that's alleged miscarriage of justice.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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[airtwardo 6]

Facts is Facts...

Enjoy the party! You've earned it, and we paid for it.

My neck is still red, my hair's turning white
and my collar is blue.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[bodypilot90 0]

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Commanders are expected to remain calm, cool and collected under stress, and to maintain the moral high ground. It is not about political correctness, it is about DISCIPLINE.

yes I agree.

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I have been in combat, but I wasn't there. I am sure that the published accounts do not contain all of the facts.

Everyone knows this.

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On the surface, it seems that the officer in question lost his cool and acted rashly. He came down off the moral high ground.

This is where we disagree, period. He extracted the needed intel in a timely manner.

[bodypilot90 0]

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I know a number of senior officers in all branches of the US military, and based on what I see of their conduct I have complete faith that this issue will be dealt with fairly and competently.

Then this means you have full faith in the comander and chief about why they are there right? I'm sorry I have seen REMF 2ed guess line unit comanders b4. If the facts are as they appear the man is a hero PERIOD.

[bodypilot90 0]

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Hopefully take better aim.

lol

[kallend 1,621]

If you believe that LTC West will not receive a fair hearing from the US military justice system, why would you believe that alleged terrorists will receive a fair hearing from a US military tribunal?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[freakyrat 1]

They want to crucify Lt. Col Allen West for saving lives and on the other hand gig MG Clark who was commander of Ft. Campbell, KY during the time of the Barry Winchel murder and an outright base out of control during his command a promotion and command of Ft. Sam Houston, TX. Kind of screwed up I would say.

[freakyrat 1]

From what I've seen on the media, Lt. Col. West is withing two weeks or so of retirement anyway. Some in the military chain of command and politicians want to make an example of him and don't know what is really happenning over in Iraq. ThanK God Oreilly is on the case and things will probably turn out good for Col West anyway.

Chris

[Skyrad 0]

Now personaly if I was one of the men that would have walked into the ambush then I'd think this man is a hero. So the prisoner was kicked about and had a weapon fired near is head, ok so maybe not model behaviour but it did get the results. Its a war, not a game of tiddly winks.
However......Whats good for the goose is good enough for the gander. If this kind of behaviour is acceptable by the US forces then Americans can't bitch when their boys and girls have the shit kicked out of them and go through mock executions either.
Personaly I think I may have acted in the same way in his position.

BTW...What the hell does HOOAH mean? Whats its origins and why the hell does it get yelled in every film with American soldier in?????????????

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[kallend 1,621]

By the way. Lt. Col. is Air Force usage. The Army currently uses LTC. Marines do whatever they like.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[bodypilot90 0]

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By the way. Lt. Col. is Air Force usage. The Army currently uses LTC. Marines do whatever they like.

well not everyone here is or has had US military experience. I chose to use Lt Col for clarity for those people. But if it make you feel better I'll change it. I feel better knowing it's 78 here and I might go for a mid week jump if anyone is up for it.

[Tonto 1]

I guess it will all come out in the wash.

t

It's the year of the Pig.