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FreeflyIndian

Canopy size after injury

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Hi all

My first post here - it seems I now have alot free time on my hands. A few weeks back I tore my ACL on a landing. Before this happened, and even now, I was wanting to downsize/change my canopy.

Quick background: just over 150 jumps, jump a PD170 F111 canopy (DOM '97). I've put almost a 100 jumps on this canopy myself. Usually jump at the coast (and generally not more than a couple 1000ft ASL). Recently went for a boogie where the DZ is +- 4500ft ASL. I have become quite used to this canopy and it was great as a first and until a couple weeks ago had never not landed on my feet (incl. downwind landings - though not on purpose!). I'd done about 20 jumps (and was some getting used to the harder than usual landings at this altitude) at the boogie and on my last one landed as per usual, but this time for some reason my weight felt like it shifted inwards and I tore the ACL inside my left knee. Still it wasn't a crash landing, I stepped down with left foot first and as I was bringing my right foot down I felt something go inside my knee).

Anyway, now I'm really hating F111 material (no jumping for 6 months!) and definitely want to go to ZP. My loading on a 170 is 1:1 and would be 1.2:1 on a 150. It felt like I wasnt getting much flare out of the canopy.

Now, I'm gonna go uncurrent, but what I'd like thoughts on is the downsizing. I was already making enquiries about buying a 150 before my incident, but now am wondering should I wait to get back in the sky, do another 50 or so jumps on my 170 F111, or perhaps do 1 or 2 mor jumps on the 170 at low ASL just to get current and then go onto a 150.

Any thoughts/comments/feedback would be most appreciated!

Blue skies

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Dump the F111 170. When your ready to get recurrent you'll probably be able to handle a 170 ZP after a few jumps on student gear.

Demo a 170. Then decide to downsize. Or buy a 170, they always hold their resale.

No one ever did wrong by not downsizing.:)

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

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Thanks Diablo

Believe you me I'm all for dumping the F111. Now I've chatted to instructors/other experienced jumpers on the dz about going down to a 150 (all this before my incident as I haven't been back to dz post torn-ACL) - opinions were that I should

What about wing loading? Correct me if I'm wrong but performance does increase with wing loading. So is not better to load a 150 at 1.2:1 (still relativly low as far as WL goes I believe) than a 170 at 1:1

I heed your advice on not downsizing, here are my reasons for wanting/thinking of downsizing:
1. As above (better performance?)
2. I do thoroughly enjoy flying under canopy but really my current 170 is such a bus. I want a canopy that I can play with.
3. If I'm going to change my canopy (and that I will), why get a ZP 170 only to use it for a short while and then probably want to downsize to a 150 thereafter, when perhaps I should just pay a little more for a good 150 now that I am sure I will use for a long long time to come (at least a couple years)

Again, feedback most appreciative.

RM

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I'm absolutely no expert so take what I say with a pinch of salt, I was using a f111 260 rental canopy and went back to the store because my landings were really hard and the bloody thing didnt seem to flare, the only nearest size they had was then a 230 zp. Anyway I tried that and oh boy what a difference, especially flaring, for me downsizing and changing to zp worked wonders. I dont want to say too much because the sky gods on here will slate me because of my inexperience, I'm just saying it worked for me that's all. And I hope your knee gets better soon.

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2. I do thoroughly enjoy flying under canopy but really my current 170 is such a bus. I want a canopy that I can play with.



Diablo is leading you the right way here, IMHO. Your 170 F111 isn't going to fly nearly as well as a 170 ZP. I've flown two different ZP's at about that size, and they can move. Diablo's also right about the resale...parachutes around that size sell pretty quickly and don't lose a lot of value as you jump them.
Well, the door was open...

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First, diablopilot is right (that has to be a record for a thread JP:D:P)

I wantede to highlight two things you said in your original post

Quote

(no jumping for 6 months!). . .
Now, I'm gonna go uncurrent,



Sell your F-111 170 now. When it is time to jump again, jump some student/rental that is a little larger, chances are you will want to favor your "good" leg and you could injure it in the process. After several jumps on that call pd, aerodyne, icarus, and any others about demo's. Theoretically you could demo zp 170's for a couple months. Then decide which one you like, or then start demoing zp 150's from everyone also. In the meantime you saved money by not buying something you aren't happy with.:)

Never look down on someone, unless they are going down on you.

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Point taken and will do.

Just so happened that I jumped a friends Heatwave 170 (semi-elliptical, zp) at the previously mentioned boogie - damn straight there's a huge difference in design/material even though size may be the same

Shot



The Heatwave is not sem-elliptical. It is a fully elliptical canopy. And although it isn't as aggresive as as some other non crossbraced ellipticals like a Katana or a Mamba it still deserves and equal amount of respect and experince.
"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

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I jump in quite windy country - Ireland, and what I noticed was that after downsize from 170 Cayenne (ZP semi elipt, WL 1.07) to Sabre2 150 (WL 1.25) about 120 jumps in total my landings have improved a lot. I started to jump only to have another opportunity to practice the landing. However it is very important to mention that I was already after one canopy flying course. I don't like Sabre 2, but it is a very good canopy to start learn how to land with a nice flare. I also thought that I will stay with it for at least 2 years, but after over 100 jumps I changed it to Cobalt 135 with beautiful openings and fantastic landings.
Regards
JanuszPS
Back to Poland... back home.

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Believe you me I'm all for dumping the F111. Now I've chatted to instructors/other experienced jumpers on the dz about going down to a 150 (all this before my incident as I haven't been back to dz post torn-ACL) - opinions were that I should



The 150 @ 1.2 isn't bad, it's just that being able to demo a 170 ZP would give you a better transition to a 150, especially after an injury and not being current.

In the states you could call up PD and have them send you something without much hassle. I've known quite a few people to use their demo program to experiment with downsizing. But in South Africa I don't know how well demo'ing is going to work out, especially now that PISA(they used to make canopies in SA) isn't doing sport canopies down there anymore. Ask some locals.

If you're going to be off for awhile you may consider taking some time to sniff around for a good deal on a used 170 ZP. You could buy it, put 50 or whatever jumps on it, then sell it for the price you paid. Also check around your DZ and see if anyone has a 170 ZP you could borrow for a few jumps.

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Im an idiot, I got injured for a month and downsized to a 168 having only two jumps on a 190. I wouldnt recommend it but hey... theyre your legs right?


Take it easy! Things are not black or white. It is not just the equipment. Its a state of mind too. Try to be positive, you fear and worries would not help him at all.

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I have 2 Sabre 2 170's, same WL as you (1.1). I have taken a canopy course and there is plenty of performace in these things for someone of my level of exp. Dont get in a rush to possiably end your skydiving carear, you have plenty of time to do that down the road.
Nothing opens like a Deere!

You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers!

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THanks all! B|

Feedback has been great and certainly given much food for thought. I will ask around about demos and if possible borrowing a 170 zp type canopy. And if I do end up buying one, a good point is that it wouldn't be hard to sell.

As to taking a canopy course, I'll definitely ask around. After all, the canopy ride is the longest part of the jump - might as well make the most of it!

Blue skies

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After all, the canopy ride is the longest part of the jump - might as well make the most of it!
///////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Not only that most injuries and deaths are under good flying canopys. People are not learning to fly there canopys, then are taking them for granite. I believe it should be mandatory for an A Lic.
Nothing opens like a Deere!

You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers!

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After all, the canopy ride is the longest part of the jump - might as well make the most of it!
///////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Not only that most injuries and deaths are under good flying canopys. People are not learning to fly there canopys, then are taking them for granite. I believe it should be mandatory for an A Lic.



What? Learning to fly a canopy? It IS mandatory for an A license. ;)
----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

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After all, the canopy ride is the longest part of the jump - might as well make the most of it!
///////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Not only that most injuries and deaths are under good flying canopys. People are not learning to fly there canopys, then are taking them for granite. I believe it should be mandatory for an A Lic.




What? Learning to fly a canopy? It IS mandatory for an A license. ;)



Yea learning is required, but not to the level it should be.:P
Nothing opens like a Deere!

You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers!

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