phoenixlpr 0 #1 September 18, 2006 I got this picture and that said to be a FX 285 tandem prototype. Why is that better than a non-crossbraced? Why is that would be better to the tandem student/passenger? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #2 September 18, 2006 Handles higher loadings better. More stable in turblent conditions. More swoop.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quinny 0 #3 September 18, 2006 I come haulin ass in on a set 360! A crossed braced 285...hmmmm....AWESOME!!! A great way to introduce students to skydiving and POND SWOOPING on their first jump! They are probably going on the basis that a crossed brace is a nice rigid and stable wing??? I love it!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jdfreefly 1 #4 September 18, 2006 Only a matter of time until we start having tandem pond swoop competitions. Put an expeienced guy on the fron flying the toggles, guy on the back works the risers! Methane Freefly - got stink? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nicknitro71 0 #5 September 18, 2006 I want one!!! Make mine with dacron lines, just in case...Memento Audere Semper 903 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #6 September 18, 2006 I don't, first time a student drops thier feet in an attempt to stand up early, it will be a bad day for us both. Why is this being developed? I just don't see a practicle purpose for it, but I am new to tandems with only 1000 in the last 7 years.An Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #7 September 18, 2006 It so is nice to share my point of view with someone so new to tandems. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quinny 0 #8 September 18, 2006 Oooh and RDS!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 136 #9 September 18, 2006 QuoteOooh and RDS!!!Well at least the slider was pulled down scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OnYourBack 0 #10 September 18, 2006 I'm all about a more stable wing. A 285 though. Its only a matter of time before the tandem hook turn fatalities start coming in. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dharma1976 0 #11 September 18, 2006 QuoteOnly a matter of time until we start having tandem pond swoop competitions. Put an expeienced guy on the fron flying the toggles, guy on the back works the risers! that has actually been done...check the pond swoping footage from the ranch circa 1996 I think you will see a tandem pond swoop Cheers Davehttp://www.skyjunky.com CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #12 September 18, 2006 A tandem on mini-risers? Looks a lot smaller than 285 sq ft to me. Photo shop? Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DZJ 0 #13 September 18, 2006 What's the 'Daedalus Project' (as written on the canopy)? Some subdivision of Icarus? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 598 #14 September 18, 2006 QuoteI don't, first time a student drops their feet in an attempt to stand up early, it will be a bad day for us both. Why is this being developed? I just don't see a particular purpose for it, but I am new to tandems with only 1000 in the last 7 years. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I agree with matthewcline. A 285 might work for tandems in a place - like Guam - with consistently strong winds and tiny Japanese students. However, I worry about no-wind days, when a student digs a heal in to try and stop the slide. 2,000 tandems ago, a student did that with me, we just roared over her ankle, breaking it! One broken student is enough for me! Been there, done that, got that T-shirt, learned my lesson - the hard way! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 0 #15 September 18, 2006 QuoteQuoteOnly a matter of time until we start having tandem pond swoop competitions. Put an expeienced guy on the fron flying the toggles, guy on the back works the risers! that has actually been done...check the pond swoping footage from the ranch circa 1996 I think you will see a tandem pond swoop Cheers Dave Also a tandem swoop in here: http://www.12000ft.com/video/23.html The TM swooped his tandemchute better than he did his vengeance I think he scored 38mtr. ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fast 0 #16 September 18, 2006 QuoteA tandem on mini-risers? Looks a lot smaller than 285 sq ft to me. Photo shop? Derek I agree I think on the photoshop call. I created a photo comparing the two. The white Canopy is my XF2-139 taken with a Rebel XT and 15mm sigma. I tried to size my photo to get the risers sizes close. No way thats as big as claimed. Also, the girl very much looks photoshopped in. Not to mention the picture looks in the final stages of a hook turn.~D Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me. Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chris-Ottawa 0 #17 September 18, 2006 I agree it looks photoshopped. If you zoom in around the people, they are blurry. This is a good job though if it is truly photoshopped. ANotherthing to notice is that the TI's shoulders are above the 3 rings, outside the harness. I also don't see a harness for the student, but it could be just out of frame. Another thing to question is the agressive turn that low on a tandem, can anyone say Cypres?? ANother is the fact that the harness connection points are non existant. From what I see around the DZ, they connect just below the 3 rings and I don't see them on the photo. My vote is for photoshop"When once you have tasted flight..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DJL 232 #18 September 18, 2006 Wow, you guys are like...CSI-dz.com or something."I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #19 September 18, 2006 Regular risers look small under large canopies. 285 is big enough to make the look happen. The T-I is holding 2 sets of toggles in his left hand and he is 10+ stories up buy the look of the constrcution in the back ground. But I still am not a fan of a "swoop" canopy being used for tandems.An Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 7 #20 September 18, 2006 QuoteI come haulin ass in on a set 360! A crossed braced 285...hmmmm....AWESOME!!! A great way to introduce students to skydiving and POND SWOOPING on their first jump! They are probably going on the basis that a crossed brace is a nice rigid and stable wing??? I love it!!! NICE rigid and stable wing... Remember that the FIRST Cross-Braced Canopies were PD Excaliburs in what, the late 80's...? I had at least one in almost every size they made, went through 3-4 of the 260 sqft ones over the course of 10 years of Pro Demo jumping. See this... I'm 240 pounds without gear, and add another 100 plus pounds of misc. gear, flags, banners, pyro...and the 260 was loaded about the same as a tandem 285 would be. Those 260's were the best demonstration canopies I've ever found, IMHO. Enough speed to get ya back, and the stability to sink in and stand up even loaded over 1:1...IN A STADIUM! All the Excalibur's were, was a cross braced 9 cell, it flew, opened and packed like a big 9 cell canopy except it was STRONGER and didn't buffet much in deep brakes because the airfoil was somewhat more ridged. And as far as 'size'...I'd love to see a cross braced 285, many of the first tandem canopies were f-111 325's... Just because it's 'cross braced' doesn't mean it's a swooper only platform! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
teason 0 #21 September 19, 2006 If you look at the TM's left 3 ring (bottom right of the photo) you'll see the hook from the student harness. If you are wondering why manufacturers are moving toward eliptical, smaller canopies, here's some food for thought. We have several tandem canopies on our DZ, most are rectangular but some are eliptical. The rectangular planform has a very high toggle pressure when manoevering. After a day of doing 8 or more tandems, my arms really start to ache. With the ellipticals, the toggle pressure is very light allowing for lots of strength reserves for the flare. Also with smaller tandem canopies (we have a 396 and a 350 Firebolt) the flare is easier to achieve. For a shorter TM, a smaller canopy will have a shorter stroke to the flare. With my long arms, I just scratch the bottom end on the 396. If I had shorter arms, a 350 would be a must. A friend of mine took a 230lbs student with his 298 Firebolt. At his height, I don't believe that the landing would have been as good with a 396. I don't think that smaller tandem canopies are there for ground hungry front riser swoops with students, there are being designed with lighter toggle pressure and more usable control range in mind. And that's not to mention how easy it is on the packers. The difference between packing a 396 vs. a 350 is night and day.I would rather be a superb meteor, every atom of me in magnificent glow, than a sleepy and permanent planet. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
packing_jarrett 0 #22 September 19, 2006 QuoteAnd that's not to mention how easy it is on the packers. The difference between packing a 396 vs. a 350 is night and day. Quote I'd rather pack a set 400 than that 280 x-brace. I like how jumpshack makes a 298 hybrid. That would be really easy to pack.Na' Cho' Cheese Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mattaman 0 #23 September 19, 2006 Pink elephants. Its a good idea only for very experienced instructors with a great skill level for both flying and malfunctions, the pink elephant will be the loading on the risers when they have their first spinning malfunction, its killed many people who couldn't cut away, then you have the rsl, don't where it on tandems myself, I won't, I've had 23 mals, 15 of those tandem mals, and man alive, you can come off spinning and tumbling on a violent one, I've had the reserve pilot chute hit my foot before I made the choice to not use the rsl, I want to be stable before deploying the reserve. High performance canopies mean high performance mals, there opening up an area of liability, we already have enough of these out thereThose stuck in maya, seek to be seen. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites diablopilot 2 #24 September 19, 2006 QuoteA tandem on mini-risers? Looks a lot smaller than 285 sq ft to me. Photo shop? Derek No photoshop.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mjosparky 3 #25 September 19, 2006 QuoteAnother thing to question is the agressive turn that low on a tandem, can anyone say Cypres?? A vertical speed of 78 mph might be a little tough to do with any canopy as big as 285 sq. ft. Can you say drag?My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 Next Page 1 of 5 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
mattaman 0 #23 September 19, 2006 Pink elephants. Its a good idea only for very experienced instructors with a great skill level for both flying and malfunctions, the pink elephant will be the loading on the risers when they have their first spinning malfunction, its killed many people who couldn't cut away, then you have the rsl, don't where it on tandems myself, I won't, I've had 23 mals, 15 of those tandem mals, and man alive, you can come off spinning and tumbling on a violent one, I've had the reserve pilot chute hit my foot before I made the choice to not use the rsl, I want to be stable before deploying the reserve. High performance canopies mean high performance mals, there opening up an area of liability, we already have enough of these out thereThose stuck in maya, seek to be seen. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #24 September 19, 2006 QuoteA tandem on mini-risers? Looks a lot smaller than 285 sq ft to me. Photo shop? Derek No photoshop.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #25 September 19, 2006 QuoteAnother thing to question is the agressive turn that low on a tandem, can anyone say Cypres?? A vertical speed of 78 mph might be a little tough to do with any canopy as big as 285 sq. ft. Can you say drag?My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
