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aerorigging

Seal prototype

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Hello all; I just want to hear some opinions and "safe" input about this new seal that I just made out of adhesive tyvek paper, with normal red cotton thread, you can sign it, stamp it and has serial number on it, more hard to falsify and eliminates any kind of pin snaging thrue the 0 grommets.
Its imposible to unstick without tear apart

Tanks for the input

Nico:)
Nicolas Lopez
Master Rigger
Aerorigging Parachute Loft

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Are you not afraid of what it will do to the environment?

Its plastic!

At least lead comes from the earth and we are just returning it to its roots when a lead seal falls to the ground!
"Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy

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Hello all; I just want to hear some opinions and "safe" input about this new seal that I just made out of adhesive tyvek paper, with normal red cotton thread, you can sign it, stamp it and has serial number on it, more hard to falsify and eliminates any kind of pin snaging thrue the 0 grommets.
Its imposible to unstick without tear apart

Tanks for the input

Nico:)



Im no rigger, but it looks good to me. The only thing you say its harder to falsify, Im not sure why you think it would be any harder to make that seal rather than stamp some lead.

I do like the no snag qualities, although in all honesty the current system has a very small chance of creating any problems when done right.

Are you going to try and get this method approved?

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Are you not afraid of what it will do to the environment?
:Swhaaattttttt???????, tyvek is a paper made out of polietilene, just very similar to the nylon fibers yuo use for you entire parachute,???

Its plastic!
Yes;), just like all your computer, and dont forget the Jet Fuel you use to jump out of your airplane

At least lead comes from the earth and we are just returning it to its roots when a lead seal falls to the ground!


:P Try to dont let it fall into a Lake or some river !!! too

Tanks for your answer, very eco-friendly;)
Nicolas Lopez
Master Rigger
Aerorigging Parachute Loft

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Sec. 65.133 — Seal.

Each certificated parachute rigger must have a seal with an identifying mark prescribed by the Administrator, and a seal press. After packing a parachute he shall seal the pack with his seal in accordance with the manufacturer's recommendation for that type of parachute.

The regulation not says lead or paper !!!
Nicolas Lopez
Master Rigger
Aerorigging Parachute Loft

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It would not be legal in the US.



Why's that? I've only had one rigger use a seal similar to the type pictured in the OP - he assured me that it was legal (though I didn't validate myself, I didn't have any reason to doubt him either). Not my regular rigger, though, so he's only repacked me once - but during that six-month cycle I never had anyone question it when getting a gear check at a new DZ.
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

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It would not be legal in the US.



Why's that? I've only had one rigger use a seal similar to the type pictured in the OP - he assured me that it was legal (though I didn't validate myself, I didn't have any reason to doubt him either). Not my regular rigger, though, so he's only repacked me once - but during that six-month cycle I never had anyone question it when getting a gear check at a new DZ.



The FAA reg says it must be lead. It would not be legal for an FAA rigger to use paper here. I'm not sure which countries use paper seals but I've only seen a couple. Jumpers from other countries bring their rigs to the US their riggers seals are recognized. The DZ that checked your rig is probably used to seeing paper seals from time to time so that's probably why they didn't think twice about it.

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The FAA reg says it must be lead



Please cite the specific regulation.



I found this:
---
65.133 Seal.

Each certificated parachute rigger must have a seal with an identifying mark prescribed by the Administrator, and a seal press. After packing a parachute he shall seal the pack with his seal in accordance with the manufacturer's recommendation for that type of parachute.
---
"Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy

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Hi Ian,

This is not directed at you; you're just the last post here.

Some riggers were doing paper seals ( not Tyvek ) for a while. Then 'someone' decided to ask the FAA about using paper seals. As you can expect, the gov't said 'No.' That is when the rigger ( I think I know who ), that NWFlyer mentions, stopped using his paper seals.

It is much easier to just say NO than it is to look into it, get some input from around the country ( USA ) and make a reasonable decision. :S

Your tax money at work.

This did come up for some discussion at the Rigger's Forum in PIA in Reno back in Feb.

Some of us want to work on this, but as of now, it looks like everyone has too much other 'stuff' going on. I know I do.

JerryBaumchen

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To make it easy to get a change, put the reason for the change into a politically correct orientation - handling of lead is a health hazard! The other benefits don't matter, but eliminating an exposure to lead will more likely get it accepted in a flash.

Geez, am I the only one to think of that? :D

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

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The FAA reg says it must be lead



Please cite the specific regulation.



I stand corrected. The reg does not specifically state the term lead. This is only an assumption on my part but the use of a seal and seal press might be making the inference that it is a soft metal such as lead. I've never heard of a paper seal that uses a press to secure it.

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Hello all; I just want to hear some opinions and "safe" input about this new seal that I just made out of adhesive tyvek paper, with normal red cotton thread, you can sign it, stamp it and has serial number on it, more hard to falsify and eliminates any kind of pin snaging thrue the 0 grommets.
Its imposible to unstick without tear apart

Tanks for the input

Nico:)



Looks like it may jam the RC housing and possibly prevent someone from pulling the RC cable all the way through and getting the sticker stuck inside the housing.

Or when you do a pull at your rigger's for a repack get that sticker jammed in the housing.

Also the ink on tyvek - even if you use the special pens - tends to run when it gets damp or wet.

As for the 'forgery-proof' aspect - think again.
Enough moisture can be absorbed by the ink & run it by 'June gloom fog' by a rig sitting out waiting for the fog to clear.

Paperwork belongs in the paperwork compartment, not on a seal thread.

.
.
Make It Happen
Parachute History
DiveMaker

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Paperwork belongs in the paperwork compartment, not on a seal thread



I'd go along with that, but it makes me wonder if a seal and thread belong on a ripcord?

There has to be a better way to seal a rig than to strap a thread and lead seal to the rip cord down by the pin and grommets.

How about sealing the top flap to the side flap? You could rig it so the whole affair would still remain under the pin cover flap, just off to the side. Engineer a loop of some sort off the side flap, run your seal thread through it and over to a similar loop on the top flap. Enclose the whole thing under a clear protective cover to prevent accidental breakage during regular handling, and you're done.

No more lead seals in the grommets, no more broken seal threads from doing pin checks, and we take one more little step away from 1940's technology.

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Not really. What I'm saying is remove the seal from the ripcord all together.

If you go higher up on the top flap, like near the yoke, and put a small notch in along the edge of the flap, maybe 1/2" wide. Then you take a piece of binding tape, maybe 1/2" long and fold it in half to make a loop, and sew one of those to the top flap next to the notch, and another to the side flap on the part of the flap exposed by the notch. All of this would probably be along the right side of the flap, as the ripcord and housing are along the left side.

Now you have the two loops next to each other, and in an area that would still be covered by the pin cover flap. Simply run your seal thread through the loop, and press on your seal. You would need to make sure that the side tuck tab for the pin cover flap starts below the location of the notch so it doesn't interfere. Again, if the notch is higher up on the flap, it shouldn't be an issue for the functioning of the pin cover flap.

The whole affair could be covered by a flap similar to the one used to hold the main container closing loop when they're located on the bottom flap. If you made this out of clear material, you could check the seal without opening it, and disturbing the seal. Again, all of this would be concealed under the pin cover flap.

The idea is that it keeps the seal away from the grommet and pin, and removes the chance that it will get wedged in there. If the seal got stuck in the soft fabric loop, the thread would just break. It's not the thread that holds the seal when it gets stuck in the gormmet, it's the mechanical function of the soft lead seal being pulled into the SS grommet. Remove the SS grommet from the equation, and there's nothing for the seal to wedge against.

As far as using the wrong thread, even if it did happen, that's why you mount it further up toward the yoke. Those flaps don't need to seperate all that much for the freebag to slip out. So even if you used HMA line, the flaps should be able to open enough to allow the bag to escape. Not that you should plan ahead for riggers to use 'whatever' thread they want, but if it did happen, the location of the seal should take care of it.

Of course, you need to open the flaps much further in the course of a pack job, so opening and packing the rig would require the seal to be broken and re-set after the pack job, which is really the purpose of the seal.

I literally thought of this as I read this thread last night. There may be a monster of a problem I'm not thinking of, but the point is that there has to be a way to update the seal system to something that eliminates the one failure mode we know of, and prevents the casual breakage from everyday handling.

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Hi Sparky,

Or something like in the photo attached. This could be done on most existing gear without adding a small loop like you show in your photo.

Yes, I know that eventually it does some 'damage' to the gear. :)

This shows both a lead seal ( on the left side ) & a paper seal ( on the right side ) so that both could be shown in a single photo.

Also, this method should alleviate the concern that Jan has about a paper seal jamming the housing.

Thoughts????

JerryBaumchen

PS) Please no comments about the dacron loop, it was just what was laying on the workbench.

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Jerry,

How do you tell if the seal has been tampered with? A single needle could hide the break under the fabric, it seems.
"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

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