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luis

UPT spectra ripcord and D-handle

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Does anybody have this problem on a new Micron?
The lower part of the D handle (standard size, with spectra ripcord)gets dislodged from the velcro. The rig is one year old and the issue seems to be progressing. Actually I am getting into habit to force the handle back in place before every exit, as it starts to look a little dangerous already. :|
I suspect that a combination of standard D handle and spectra ripcord are to blame. The ripcord moves on the handle and may be applying some tension pulling it out at an angle. That's my theory anyway :P
This is my second Micron. The first one did not have this problem (metal ripcord).

..and yes, I have tried asking UPT. They seem to have some permanent email problems again ;)

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While I've never heard of it, you could CALL the guys at UPT and ask them.

If it was doing it to me, I would probably just put a piece of tape on either side so it doesn't slide so easily. That's just me though.
"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

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I see that all the time on all kinds of rigs. The problem seems to be the fit of the harness: the bend of the main lift web from the shoulder around to the hip. That natural curve tends to make the bottom of the ripcord ease out of its pocket. I'm always pointing this out to people in the boarding area and asking them to re-seat their ripcords so they don't have floaters in freefall...

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I've seen the same thing happen on a Javelin with metal ripcord and a shorter main lift web (16-17"). Everytime the jumper sat down, it would apply force above and below the ripcord and force the bottom completely out.

I don't have a fix for you though, just that it has happened before.
We're not fucking flying airplanes are we, no we're flying a glorified kite with no power and it should be flown like one! - Stratostar

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Is this only a problem with the metal D-handles? It sounds like the softer, pillow-type handles would be able to deform and stay with the MLW better.
"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls."

~ CanuckInUSA

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Is this only a problem with the metal D-handles? It sounds like the softer, pillow-type handles would be able to deform and stay with the MLW better.



My V3-M with the soft handle & spectra doesn't have this problem at all.
"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

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What size is your MLW?


the label says "17.5 +1" , whatever that +1 means ;)
Actually I checked it from my older rig - the new "problematic" one is out for reserve repack. But both were ordered with exactly the same measurement, so MLW should be the same - the fit feels the same anyway.

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Is this only a problem with the metal D-handles? It sounds like the softer, pillow-type handles would be able to deform and stay with the MLW better.



I believe that to be the case, because it presents a rigid straight-line surface against a curved lift web. My Martin-Baker type main ripcord does not have this problem, because the end which is in the pocket is much smaller than a D-ring style. And it would seem that a pillow handle, as you say, would flex with the lift web.

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Is this only a problem with the metal D-handles? It sounds like the softer, pillow-type handles would be able to deform and stay with the MLW better.



Yes, a soft handle will bend with the MLW, while a metal handle will not, which will help.

However, even when the MLW isn't bent, the soft handle is still more secure. The soft handle is secured directly to the MLW by velcro. A metal handle is not secured to the MLW at all; the pocket is secured to the MLW, trapping the handle in place. The handle can work its way between the two strips of velcro, and do it with much less force than would be required to separate a soft handle from the MLW. Think about the force to pull a hard handle vs a soft handle, and why it is recommended to peel a soft handle before pulling it.

This will be worse if the velcro is worn. It may be possible in some cases to solve the problem by replacing the velcro. Replacing worn velcro is a good idea with either type of handle, but a hard handle will be less forgiving of worn velcro.

I had this problem on a Javelin with a metal D handle. I replaced it with a soft handle and have had no problems with it since.
"It's amazing what you can learn while you're not talking." - Skydivesg

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I had the same problem and emailed UPT. Theyresponded immediately (continuing the awesome customer service I've always received from them), asked me a few questions about my rig and determined that the following fix was appropriate.
They mailed me a velcro piece which is sewn inside the resreve handle pocket but it floats at one end so should allow for more flexing of the harness (see attached photo) They warn that the force to remove the handle will increase marginally. I will have the velco fitted at my next re-pack so can't tell you how effective it is yet.
This may not be appropriate for your rig and you shoud absolutely contact UPT before making any mods like this to your rig.

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interesting solution! Wonder how does it affect the pull force ... not that I ever had a chance over the skyhook in my three cutaways.
My experience with UPT customer service has always been great too (their email server / spam filter is another story though :P )

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interesting solution! Wonder how does it affect the pull force ...



Well Wings have had this style on it for as long as I can remember but I have only been jumping them for 7 or 8 years. As for how it effects them? Three uses of D-ring handles to deploy my reserve and no impact whatsoever... but thats just me ymmv :)
I like my canopy...


...it lets me down.

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I'm not sure if I had quite the same problem, but on my 2006 DOM Vector 3 I was noticing the D ring tending to get loose (I have a wire ripcord, not spectra) and it seemed to me that the issue was that the two pieces of velcro are sewn all round to the webbing, which forms a sort of pocket. But the D ring has thickness to it, and with tension on the webbing, this was tending to pull the velcro apart just in the areas near the D ring. I asked a rigger and he came up with an elegant fix. He sewed a piece of velcro hook and a piece of loop back to back (ie. with the hooks and loops facing out). Note, it was not sewn to the harness at all. He just mated the piece to the existing velcro in the the D ring pocket. It doesn't work itself loose, and there's only the same area of velcro as was originally there.

It's simpler than my description might sound, I can't think of a better way to describe it.

Probably similar to the fix described as having been issued by UPT. If anyone's interested I could post pictures.

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"
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... He sewed a piece of velcro hook and a piece of loop back to back (ie. with the hooks and loops facing out). Note, it was not sewn to the harness at all. He just mated the piece to the existing velcro in the the D ring pocket. It doesn't work itself loose, and there's only the same area of velcro as was originally there.

..."

.........................................................................

As long as ripcord pull forces remain in the 5 to 22 pound range, it works.

Another alternative is the wider pocket installed on more recent Javelins. It is deeper than the 1 23/32 inch wide webbing, more like 2 inches deep, which reduces the urge for Velcro to peal before you need it.

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Is this only a problem with the metal D-handles? It sounds like the softer, pillow-type handles would be able to deform and stay with the MLW better.



.......................................................................

The better "soft" ripcord handles have plastic or steel stiffeners that negate any flexibility.

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"
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... not that I ever had a chance over the skyhook in my three cutaways. :P )

..."

....................................................................

I sure hope you were not waiting for your Skyhook to save you.

Do you know what they call people who wait for Skyhooks - or any other type of RSL or AAD - to save them?
"%$#@!" but I am not supposed to use words like that in polite company.
Hah!
Hah!

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Hi Rob,

Quote

It is deeper than the 1 23/32 inch wide webbing, more like 2 inches deep,



The Centaurus rig has been doing this for many years. I think they use a piece of 3" Type 4 but it has been a number of years since I've seen a Centaurus.

IMO the problem with the V-III, and some other rigs, is that they put the handle between the two layers of the MLW. These two layers are under tension upon opening which results in the Velcro being pulled apart. One only has to consider the geometry of the pocket to realize this.

The 'fix' shown in the photo, with the added piece of Type 12, is a slick idea.

JerryBaumchen

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I sure hope you were not waiting for your Skyhook to save you.


fast spinning Velo malfunctions every time turned me into a slingshot projectile with reflexes still slower then skyhook's .. but I'm getting better! - the last time I even managed to grab the reserve handle before the Big "S" kicked in ;)
.....
Thanks for the shared ideas everyone! I am quite surprised that so simple and apparently common issue was not resolved yet...

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I sure hope you were not waiting for your Skyhook to save you.



Does anyone actually chop and then sit there thinking "yep, any time now that skyhook is gonna kick in and I'll have the fastest reserve deployment ever. Yup, any time now cos these skyhooks are fast! Any time... soon... maybe... oh come on, am I supposed to do this myself?".

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velcro piece which is sewn inside the resreve handle pocket but it floats at one end so should allow for more flexing



My VectorIII DOM 2009 came from the factory like that. ie Velcro sandwich attached to one side with the reserve handle in there. Not sure why yours is different.

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