0
Lennie

Karnage Krew

Recommended Posts

Hey Skydivers.

Im writing you all to warn you about a dealer called from Karnage Krew in sydney, Australia.

June last year I ordered, AND PAID $ 7200 US, for a new rig, main, reserve and AAD.
Custom made for me and needless to say I was more than excited but also hurting a bit because the amount I had to pay.
HOWEVER I have never seen the rig, and the guy always came up with excuses why he hadn't send it yet.
So I wrote the rig manufacture (UPT) and they just responded to say that the rig have never been ordered!!!!!

So yeah I got fucked over for $ 7200 US.
:-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-(

I dont think I can do a lot about it (except fly to Sydney and brake his f^%$ing neck), but I want to make sure that no one else get the same experience as I have.

So if you could please help spread the word and maybe send this to all you know in the sport, so no one else get fucked over from Karnage Krew ever again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
First, if you can, delete the other thread or ask the moderators for assistance.

There is something that everyone can do who has a legitimate complaint.
I don't know what Gary's last name is, but with a little cyber-sleuthing and starting here: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?username=bigway;

Use these folks to help hunt him down and place in the police report:

http://whois.domaintools.com/karnagekrew.com

Fill out police reports in your local area and then collectively send the to the police in Sydney and or New Zealand and to those on the whois site.

AggieD may be able to give additional advice.
Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Yeah, after reading the other thread, it's criminal unless he's filed bankruptcy and then it's civil. My instincts tell me that he has not filed or the courts would have notified all the creditors during the process, so the Trustee could start working from highest to lowest.
Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
If you are saying his actions were criminal, then how does filing for bankruptcy, suddenly in of itself absolve that? It does not. Civil debt collection laws, vis-a-vis "automatic stays" imposed upon those looking to collect, are an entirely SEPARATE matter from anything criminal, and a civil bankruptcy filing will do nothing to dismiss or absolve a (legitimate - just taking your statement on face value, if it is) criminal charge.

I am not taking any position at all, or opining as to whether (or not) his actions have risen to the level of criminal liability. Only replying to your statement that "it's criminal unless he's filed for bankruptcy, and then it's civil." The one has absolutely nothing to do at all with the other, and clearly - has absolutely no either bearing, or affect on the other either.

Filing for Civil Bankruptcy will not absolve one, of one's criminal liability ...if indeed a criminal liability does exist.

FWIW.
coitus non circum - Moab Stone

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
If no one has yet to file any criminal charges (theft, fraud, etc.) and he files bankruptcy first, it's going to be harder to prove the criminal charge vs. just being a bad businessman. If nobody does anything, then he wins.
Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

That sux bigtime... seemed like he had such a good thing going...


Too good to be true, eh? [:/]
I understand the need for conformity. Without a concise set of rules to follow we would probably all have to resort to common sense. -David Thorne

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote


Im glad i seen this- i have bitten my tongue for too long as i am a "victim" as well- now i know i will never see money i was owed for a rig i shipped to him.

just to add people had complained before about getting scammed- shame on him
Dudeist Skydiver #170
You do not need a parachute to skydive, you only need one to skydive again

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Im going to be pursuing Gary legally shortly. Way easier to make sure he gets gang raped in jail than having the same done on the outside. If you sent your money to his personal bank account feel free to PM me and I would be happy to include you.

All his talk of bad business decisions is bullshit. He is a lying thief.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Hey Skydivers.

Im writing you all to warn you about a dealer called from Karnage Krew in sydney, Australia.

June last year I ordered, AND PAID $ 7200 US, for a new rig, main, reserve and AAD.
Custom made for me and needless to say I was more than excited but also hurting a bit because the amount I had to pay.
HOWEVER I have never seen the rig, and the guy always came up with excuses why he hadn't send it yet.
So I wrote the rig manufacture (UPT) and they just responded to say that the rig have never been ordered!!!!!

So yeah I got fucked over for $ 7200 US.
:-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-(

I dont think I can do a lot about it (except fly to Sydney and brake his f^%$ing neck), but I want to make sure that no one else get the same experience as I have.

So if you could please help spread the word and maybe send this to all you know in the sport, so no one else get fucked over from Karnage Krew ever again.





Lennie,

I feel your pain and have actually had a very similar experience with Gary. I have just finished getting a judgement against him for a smaller amount of money but he is no where to be found. I will be happy to join in your case against him as I have a very good idea of where he is. Please contact me directly at [email protected]
Do you know GARY LUCAS? He represents, or used to be Karnage Krew aka KKrew Skydiving Pty Ltd. I am looking for him, please contact me if you know his whereabouts.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Im going to be pursuing Gary legally shortly. Way easier to make sure he gets gang raped in jail than having the same done on the outside. If you sent your money to his personal bank account feel free to PM me and I would be happy to include you.

All his talk of bad business decisions is bullshit. He is a lying thief.



long story short- he had advertised for a gear swap- he was building a rig for the university clubs in the UK to use and needed a reserve- i had one and a container to go with it in return for a new freefly suit plus the postage on the shipping. so i said here take the container as well as i have no use for it (it was a TSE classic DOM1992). it turned from a ff suit into gatorz in a hoodie into nothing- no shipping expenses returned to me either- paypal isnt very complicated to use :( i have gave up on despairing- it was just over £100 in shipping costs but still im down money- in hindsight i shoulda kept the rig and used it for reserve packing practice.
Dudeist Skydiver #170
You do not need a parachute to skydive, you only need one to skydive again

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'm sorry to hear this. I've seen Gary on his trajectory from very small unknown to a seemingly reputable dealer and now this. It leaves me wondering at what point it all turned south for him and how much of it was real.

Early on I helped him out with some artwork for gloves, T-shirts, magazine and web ads etc. but it was jackanory every time the issue of my payment came up (all I wanted was one of whatever my art got printed on which was a trivial request). The story would be stuff got stopped at customs or he was sending it via his visiting bro and finally he said he got screwed by the exchange rate and was digging himself out of a hole.

Eventually, years later he did send me a couple of T-shirts to make good on the deal. I always took pleasure seeing his reputation build online here and saw the dichotomy between my experience and his customers (which we should remember he treated well until now) which I put down to his customer centric approach, and bit my tongue.

He's seemingly in a hole now from which he is unlikely to climb out from because his reputation is in tatters and he apparently doesn't have the liquidity to keep suppliers happy.

I'm not here to join the pile-on, I just wanted to offer the observation that I think Gary has been here before and dug his way out, but that was before he had the overheads of his store etc. and while his reputation was still intact and his suppliers weren't pissed off. The story I got was that a few years ago Gary got a load of orders from the UK and wound up losing a small fortune due to a sudden change in the exchange rate ( I think the markets bear this out ). Anyway he kept everyone happy, and clawed his way back to success. Once he'd recovered he found a partner and invested in a store. He seemed happy and excited about future prospects. He was ordering demo/loaner rigs to cover order periods etc. with hindsight adding to his overheads in unsustainable ways.

Now it's collapsing around him but I suspect a the recent predicament has a lot to do with Gary not giving up on a failing business that he's guided through tough cash-flow problems in the past.

Many businesses use customer deposited funds to cover expenses to purchase goods for future deliverables for other customers, they also use delays in paying suppliers to help with their cash flow, especially when experiencing cash-flow problems. It's an easy situation to get sucked into but it's a slippery slope if you don't have the margins to cover your overheads. On the other hand it can tide you over through a lean period while you focus on growing profitability and nobody is any the wiser. The finances of a company is a single pool of cash people, there are no customer ear-marks on a bank balance, just numbers in a ledger somewhere.

Some are accusing Gary of criminality etc. but this may simply be a case of an ailing business where the owner needs to bite the bullet and declare bankruptcy. His lack of willingness to do this is because he's been here before and managed to pull it off, and he did it when he had significant debt, owed suppliers and struggled to fulfill orders, but he pulled it off anyway when it would have been easier to walk away. Now his situation seems worse if KK is taking money to pay disgruntled suppliers who then refuse to fill orders, and telling customers things to keep them at bay that only do more damage.

Maybe it's time to stick a fork in it and stop the damage. There's nothing more to be done especially when the reputation that could help bring in new orders at more sustainable margins has been lost.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I hate that everyone has lost money!!! That really sucks. I used Karnage Krew when I bought my rig. The deal started out good, but it started going downhill about the time my container was to be finished. After too many excuses from Gary, I called UPT and inquired about the status of my container. I had been told by Gary, it was UPT's fault my rig was not completed. When I talked to UPT, I found out my container was sitting there finished and had been for about four weeks. I am pretty sure that UPT contacted Gary and chewed his ass because I got a scathing email from Gary shortly thereafter. I told him to kiss my ass and learn the meaning of customer service. It was amazing how my rig showed up at my house four days after contacting UPT.

Anyway, I hope this guy gets his due when everyone finds him!!!
Ran into a chum with a bottle of rum
And we wound up drinkin all night

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

If no one has yet to file any criminal charges (theft, fraud, etc.) and he files bankruptcy first, it's going to be harder to prove the criminal charge vs. just being a bad businessman. If nobody does anything, then he wins.



And what has he won?

A cash up-front business is in trouble. He lengthens his supply chain to keep his business liquid and tries to appease his suppliers by using the liquidity generated by the delay to cover his debts. It backfires when customers start calling his suppliers to discover that orders have not yet been placed, then it all implodes.

I don't know what Australian law says on the matter, and the OP certainly got screwed, but I doubt that gary took money with no intention of fulfilling orders but Karnage Krew should certainly stop the carnage now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'm not here to join the pile-on, I just wanted to offer the observation that I think Gary has been here before and dug his way out, but that was before he had the overheads of his store etc. and while his reputation was still intact and his suppliers weren't pissed off. The story I got was that a few years ago Gary got a load of orders from the UK and wound up losing a small fortune due to a sudden change in the exchange rate ( I think the markets bear this out ). Anyway he kept everyone happy, and clawed his way back to success. Once he'd recovered he found a partner and invested in a store. He seemed happy and excited about future prospects. He was ordering demo/loaner rigs to cover order periods etc. with hindsight adding to his overheads in unsustainable ways.

Anyone thought of chasing said partner?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Quote

If no one has yet to file any criminal charges (theft, fraud, etc.) and he files bankruptcy first, it's going to be harder to prove the criminal charge vs. just being a bad businessman. If nobody does anything, then he wins.



And what has he won?

A cash up-front business is in trouble. He lengthens his supply chain to keep his business liquid and tries to appease his suppliers by using the liquidity generated by the delay to cover his debts. It backfires when customers start calling his suppliers to discover that orders have not yet been placed, then it all implodes.

I don't know what Australian law says on the matter, and the OP certainly got screwed, but I doubt that gary took money with no intention of fulfilling orders but Karnage Krew should certainly stop the carnage now.



Gary,

Is that you?
Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Quote

I'm not here to join the pile-on, I just wanted to offer the observation that I think Gary has been here before and dug his way out, but that was before he had the overheads of his store etc. and while his reputation was still intact and his suppliers weren't pissed off. The story I got was that a few years ago Gary got a load of orders from the UK and wound up losing a small fortune due to a sudden change in the exchange rate ( I think the markets bear this out ). Anyway he kept everyone happy, and clawed his way back to success. Once he'd recovered he found a partner and invested in a store. He seemed happy and excited about future prospects. He was ordering demo/loaner rigs to cover order periods etc. with hindsight adding to his overheads in unsustainable ways.



Anyone thought of chasing said partner?



Depends how it's set up, if they're limited you'll be SOL. Just remember that that guy got screwed bigger than anyone because he put cash into Karnage Krew for a portion of the company and ended up with a share of what you see unfolding.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

0