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skyjames

Pulse

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Presently I jump a Safire 149. I am looking to upsize (yeah UP).
I did a few demo's on a Pulse 170 recently.
I have a J1 container and the 149 while not super tight to pack wouldn't take a standard ZP170, however the Pulse 170 fit almost the same as the Safire 149.

I am planing to demo the Pulse for 2 weeks, hopefully during the time span of the next boogie Z-hills has so I can really put some jumps on the Pulse. there and at home. I think the charge was like $60~$70 for 2 wks, seems fair enough.

Anyhoo, my question is about the lower skin, it is not ZP, more on the line of F111.
I am wondering if this will make a BIG difference in the life span of the canopy vrs full ZP. FWIW, I am pretty sure this will be the last canopy I buy. I liked the Pulse and it would save me the cost of a new container.

The pro's so far look pretty good. If color 'were' an issue, the bottom skin is only available in white, call that a con if you want.

One would think after 10 years in the sport I could answer this seemingly simple question myself, I admit I could only guess an answer.

Appreciate any thoughts, facts or ideas from ya'll.

"exit fast, fly smooth, dock soft and smile"
'nother james

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Presently I jump a Safire 149. I am looking to upsize (yeah UP).
I did a few demo's on a Pulse 170 recently.
I have a J1 container and the 149 while not super tight to pack wouldn't take a standard ZP170, however the Pulse 170 fit almost the same as the Safire 149.

I am planing to demo the Pulse for 2 weeks, hopefully during the time span of the next boogie Z-hills has so I can really put some jumps on the Pulse. there and at home. I think the charge was like $60~$70 for 2 wks, seems fair enough.

Anyhoo, my question is about the lower skin, it is not ZP, more on the line of F111.
I am wondering if this will make a BIG difference in the life span of the canopy vrs full ZP. FWIW, I am pretty sure this will be the last canopy I buy. I liked the Pulse and it would save me the cost of a new container.

The pro's so far look pretty good. If color 'were' an issue, the bottom skin is only available in white, call that a con if you want.

One would think after 10 years in the sport I could answer this seemingly simple question myself, I admit I could only guess an answer.

Appreciate any thoughts, facts or ideas from ya'll.



Judging by the experience of a friend who has owned a Silhouette for many years, no, the non-zp bottom skin (ribs too) will not decrease the lifetime of the canopy.

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Well, if your profile is correct, you've accumulated under 600 total jumps in over 10 years. If your "pace" remains relatively the same, I'd think your investment in the new canopy, as amortized over TIME as your benchmark for a lifespan, is very well spent. You should get a good 20 years+ out of this canopy then.

Does that about cover your "canopy for life" - last new canopy purchase coverage desire? Only you now, hold the answer to that.
coitus non circum - Moab Stone

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The Pulse bottom skin is the same material as used in Optimum reserves, and I doubt there is much long term degradation info about it.

PD do "wearability" tests, but I think these are more likely to be accelerated wear tests than real-time degradation over years in service. I do know that their criteria for using the material in a main were different than those for using it in a reserve.

I suggest calling PD - and then posting what you find out!
"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls."

~ CanuckInUSA

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The explanations I have heard is that the top skin and the end ribs are the most important parts with respect to the zp fabric.

Both the Silhouette and the Pulse use ZP for these areas.

Only the bottom skin and the internal ribs are the non-zp fabric.

Certainly the permeability of the internal ribs will not be a big factor. After all, they have big crossports cut in them in the first place.

I guess we'll just have to trust PD when they say that the bottom skin is significantly less critical than the top.

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The explanations I have heard is that the top skin and the end ribs are the most important parts with respect to the zp fabric.

Both the Silhouette and the Pulse use ZP for these areas.

Only the bottom skin and the internal ribs are the non-zp fabric.

Certainly the permeability of the internal ribs will not be a big factor. After all, they have big crossports cut in them in the first place.

I guess we'll just have to trust PD when they say that the bottom skin is significantly less critical than the top.




No such thing as a simple question I guess :)
Your answer is simple enough though. Thanks!

I demo'ed the Pulse at the 'glades boogie, PD was on site with canopies to play with.
Your explanation is just about the same as they told me, they did not offer the info you provided relating to other canopies though.
The point that interested me was that the larger canopy packed small enough to fit into my container. They said the Pulse packed 'one size' smaller. I understand packing smaller, the 'one size' didn't make a lot of sense because 170 seemed more than one size larger than a 149 to me. I did not ask the actual size of the 170 but I guess it would be close; +/- a few sqft.
My point of reference to a size smaller would be a 149 to a 139 in the Safire, since they offer stock sizes like 179,169,159,149 etc... I know you can order any size you want though. I was told when I bought the 149 some 500+ jumps ago that they would cut me a 123 1/2 if I wanted it.
The Safire is semi elliptical, the Pulse is square, flight charartrictics while different, weren't drastic enough for me to say no way jose.
The reason given for the Pulse packing so much smaller is the "new" ZP fabric they are using.
On the few jumps I did do on the Pulse I think I could get used to it. Damn, that sounds like a sad acceptance, but since I have no intention of getting rid of my Safire I can down size anytime I feel like doing so. All this mumbling is off topic,I will demo the Pulse as I intended and trust PD, they been 'round a while.

Appreciate the response.

"exit fast, fly smooth, dock soft and smile"
'nother james

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PD says the Pulse is "lightly elliptical", so not perfectly rectangular.

That said, the Saphire and the Pulse don't aim at exactly the same market, and we should not expect that either would meet the needs/wants of all customers.

"One size smaller" is a sort of a catch phrase. It is not a scientific statement.

Canopy selection is VERY subjective. Demo the ones you are considering. Buy what you like. YMMV.

I like my Spectre, but a Pulse would be very nice for many things. You might find either too docile. It all depends on what you are looking for.

I know that it is tough to consider, but several respected contributors here have mentioned that there seems to be a lot of backwards thinking when it comes to gear - that people choose the rig and then try to find canopies that will fit it.

Find the canopies you want. If they don't fit your rig, sell the rig and get one that is right for the canopies you've selected. Too much depends on the whole system working correctly together. Just because it can be closed does not necessarily mean everything is as compatible as it really should/must be.

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"PD says the Pulse is "lightly elliptical", so not perfectly rectangular."

The guy said "slightly elliptical" in his description to me but that is splitting hairs. Looking up at it fully opened, compared to what I am used to seeing the corners do look "square". Of course it isn't really square, it's just the term I chose to use.

"That said, the Saphire and the Pulse don't aim at exactly the same market, and we should not expect that either would meet the needs/wants of all customers."

I agree with that.
I liked the Safire 149 from the 1st jump on it. It was everything I wanted in a canopy at the time. Now I want something else, something tamer. Compared to my Safire, which some would claim is tame, the Pulse is much more so .

"One size smaller" is a sort of a catch phrase. It is not a scientific statement."

Yeah, but the math was kinda fun and if that statement wasn't meant to be exact I suppose other things said are to be read between the lines also. No argument, I think I understand where you are coming from.

"I like my Spectre, but a Pulse would be very nice for many things. You might find either too docile. It all depends on what you are looking for."

Ok, some tongue in cheek. I want a canopy that will be easy on my aging body during opening, specifically area C3 thru C5, have at bit of flare left on a no wind day so I almost never have to run it out (maybe an exception for Eloy), it will not get pissed at me if I do not split the slider in perfect quarters or don't roll the nose. It will always let me down ... easy. If portions of it are made of fabric other than ZP it will not affect the canopies performance through out its jump life expectancy. Riser pressure will not wear my arms out and its glide ratio will be the envy of any canopy the same size. Lastly, it will pack one size smaller and it doesn't have to fit into my J1.

"I know that it is tough to consider, but several respected contributors here have mentioned that there seems to be a lot of backwards thinking when it comes to gear - that people choose the rig and then try to find canopies that will fit it."

There is real truth in that, back-asswards thinking, a winning example.
It was happenstance for me that PD had the demo's between Jones' 20 way dirt diving area and the packing concession. I was not entertaining the idea of a 170 main with a 150 reserve, I would not dismiss the idea outright though. I bought a new 149 and Sunpath put everything new around it. At the time I wasn't considering up sizing, quite the opposite, but that was then.

I intend to up size if I need to purchase another rig or not, not a hard consideration at all. Like you rightly suggest, complete system compatibility far out weighs any single feature ... It was like, damn, look at this, the size canopy I am considering and it will fit in my existing rig. The odds of that occurring right then and there without having really looked made me think no shit and no way at the same time.

Others agree not to be concerned about the non ZP lower skin.

"exit fast, fly smooth, dock soft and smile"
'nother james

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By going to a larger canopy, you should expect to have a more docile canopy even if it of the same model. The wing loading will be lower. My SO switched from a Pilot to a Pulse of the same size. They both have nice soft openings. The Pilot was tight in her container and the Pulse fits nicely. She also prefers the flare on the Pulse as well. From day one, the Pulse was a breeze to pack.

If you are concerned about having a mismatched main reserve combo, consider getting an Optimum reserve in a 160sf. It will also pack about a size smaller, or about the size of a PDR143. My new rig will have the OP160. I have demo'd one in a 143sf and it was fantastic. Even at terminal, the opening was softer than some mains I have jumped. And having extra fabric over your head when in the basement after chopping a mal is never a bad thing.
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You know you want to spank it
Jump an Infinity

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I guess we'll just have to trust PD when they say that the bottom skin is significantly less critical than the top.



I just wanted to add my 2ct. to the whole ZP top skin and F111 bottom skin issue.

AFAIK the reason canopys are built this way are the following: A ZP Top skin will not let as much air through as a semi-porous F111 top skin.

Since a canopy creates lift by the air flowing faster over the top skin than over the bottom skin (Bernoulli effect), a F111 top skin would let more air seep out through the fabric, distorting the airflow, reducing lift.

This effect is much smaller on the bottom skin because the canopy is pressurized and the bottom skin only creates 1/3rd of the lift.

The advantages of having a F111 bottom skin and internal ribs are probably cost, pack volume and ease of packing.

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The Pulse bottom skin is the same material as used in Optimum reserves,



I wonder if they would let me order one with an orange bottom skin or ribs? That's what color the material is on the reserve. Anyone heard about this?



While I was tossing a coin on which canopy I was going to demo first, the PD guy (sorry I forgot his name) was going over the menu for the Pulse and the Storm, he told me white was the only color available for the bottom skin for the Pulse, I don't recall the ribs having the white only restriction.
I am only referring to the Pulse.

"exit fast, fly smooth, dock soft and smile"
'nother james

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From day one, the Pulse was a breeze to pack.



This was another point made about the Pulse, the Pulse isn't as difficult to get in the bag as you would expect with any new ZP canopy. He didn't say, but I think this is true in part because the canopy is only about 50% ZP. The Pulses ZP fabric is different than other ZP fabric. Several times I was urged to 'feel' the new ZP. I don't remember the exact size difference in thickness, it was in the neighborhood of 30% thinner iirc.

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If you are concerned about having a mismatched main reserve combo, And having extra fabric over your head when in the basement after chopping a mal is never a bad thing.



Concerned/considered yes, worried no. As riggerpaul pointed out, the complete system, not an individual component should be the focus. For sure the more inflated reserve fabric I have overhead the better I would feel. This is where packing one size smaller can really add up for you.

"exit fast, fly smooth, dock soft and smile"
'nother james

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Hey James at our age knowing the pluse flys very flat to get back from a bad spot sound nice, I know I put it in my container that has a spectre and it was almost to small. so it also packs like a breeze. Think worn out f1-11. PD will be here for the Christmas, come on over and try

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