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andreeb77

Dealer Problem

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I need some advice on what to do with an issue I and some friends have with a dealer from whom we ordered skydiving gear. Here’s the story in a nutshell:

In August 2009 two friends and I ordered three UPT Microns with PD reserves, a Cypres and an Icarus main canopy. Shortly after we added another Micron and another PD reserve. The whole order totaled at nearly 20,000 USD.

Three of the four rigs were delivered eventually; the fourth rig was delivered after more than one year minus the reserve. The dealer claimed problems with German authorities and promised to send the reserve individually. After several unsuccessful attempts, we agreed that he gives us a refund for the reserve.

We are still waiting for this refund. The dealer claimed to have multiple personal problems and that his company is going through a difficult time. Three times he promised that the money was on its way which obviously was a lie.

So this whole deal is taking one and half years now and my buddy still neither has a reserve nor money to buy one from someone else. Meanwhile the dealer can’t be reached anymore and his website is down.

What would you do? Any ideas, comments, thoughts?

BlueS

Andree

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"Any ideas, comments, thoughts?"



Find the guy, & don't post what follows, here. Then, go deal w/Mike @Chuting Star.

I also feel you should "Out" this turkey in this thread. Think of it as a public service announcement. We all have a right to know in case he resurfaces later. Good Luck getting your money back.

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In August 2009 two friends and I ordered three UPT Microns with PD reserves
the fourth rig was delivered after more than one year minus the reserve.



Was the reserve, by any chance, one of the larger Optimum reserves?

Not that it explains or justifies the lack of a refund, but there were some monumental delays in getting the TSO for the larger Optimum reserves, and I know several dealers were taking orders for them anyway and just waiting for production to start.

So that might explain the delay in delivery of the reserve, but the non-existant refund is unexcusable. I would suggest you check with PD, and report the problem.

With the serial numbers in hand of the reserves you did recieve, you should be able to determine when the order was placed with PD, and if the order was for 3 or 4 reserves. If the order was for four, and four were shipped, the guy kept or sold the 4th to someone else. If the order was only for 3, he might have pocketed the cash. You could also ask if he made any orders or placed a deposit for a reserve that the sale was never completed.

I don't think PD makes a habit of sharing that type of information, but given that the dealer is failing you horribly, they might be able to give you some info pretaining to your situation.

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I've got the same problem with the same (if I'm not mistaken) dealer.

I ordered a full UPT Micron with PDR and Icarus Safire2, I received the container + reserve however the main canopy that has been made and shipped to the dealer in August 2010 still hasn't arrived to me and the dealer is barely responding (if at all) and when he does it's some lame excuse...

It's been utterly frustrating..

Yes, I contacted the manufacturers, they said they'd contact him, but I still haven't had any replies..

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In August 2009 two friends and I ordered three UPT Microns with PD reserves
the fourth rig was delivered after more than one year minus the reserve.



Was the reserve, by any chance, one of the larger Optimum reserves?

Not that it explains or justifies the lack of a refund, but there were some monumental delays in getting the TSO for the larger Optimum reserves, and I know several dealers were taking orders for them anyway and just waiting for production to start.

So that might explain the delay in delivery of the reserve, but the non-existant refund is unexcusable. I would suggest you check with PD, and report the problem.

With the serial numbers in hand of the reserves you did recieve, you should be able to determine when the order was placed with PD, and if the order was for 3 or 4 reserves. If the order was for four, and four were shipped, the guy kept or sold the 4th to someone else. If the order was only for 3, he might have pocketed the cash. You could also ask if he made any orders or placed a deposit for a reserve that the sale was never completed.

I don't think PD makes a habit of sharing that type of information, but given that the dealer is failing you horribly, they might be able to give you some info pretaining to your situation.



dont think it has something to do with PD or the optimum.. i know very concrete of one guy missing his main-canopy which is NOT from PD, and by the word of the company in question, it was sent out august last year. i was missing out on my main-canopy for a very long time too, i made one call to the manufacturer after numberous unanswered emails, and i havent finished describing my color-pattern, the guy one the phone knew my name and where i lived.. the manufacturer definitely has his shits together, while the dealer..

for some reason, threads about this dealer happened to get locked or disappeared pretty quickly.

seems the dealer in question likes to give the same excuses over and over again, and must have about four mothers, because they all died at one point or another over the course of the last two years..

i kept on backing the guy up. i had some sort of pleasant buisness, tough i also waited very long.

i dont know what is up, but i dont like what i'm seeing. :|



edited to add: Sangis beat me to it.
“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

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the manufacturer definitely has his shits together



That's what I thought, but I couldn't ignore the delays on the bigger Optimums as a possible cause for some of the problem. Like I said, even if it was that, it doesn't explain the lack of a refund and the stop in communications.

I still think direct contact with the manufacturer is the best idea. If anything, it puts the 'dealer' on their radar, and eventually they'll stop selling to the guy.

It's a tough situation for sure. These are 'bigger' ticket items, and the buyer can't always write off the loss, or order from another dealer before being refunded from the first. The dealer, if they mismange their business, could easily owe $10,000+ to unhappy customers, not a dollar figure a bad businessman can easily come up with.

The worst part of it is the guy in question was, at one time, a reputable, high-volume dealer that everyone seemed to love. When he later takes a turn for the worse, there are dozens of jumpers with orders pending who paid in full and are left in the lurch.

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Just received another same "relative problem" excuse from the dealer in question..

No information whether my canopy is shipped or not (not to mention any tracking numbers), it's whereabouts or anything whatsoever..

B|

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The worst part of it is the guy in question was, at one time, a reputable, high-volume dealer that everyone seemed to love. When he later takes a turn for the worse, there are dozens of jumpers with orders pending who paid in full and are left in the lurch.



That's something I'm utterly boggled about as well.. One of the main reasons I ordered from him was that he seemed revered and a reputable person according to DZ.com, however it seems he's not for whatever reason that is unknown..

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i dont know what is up, but i dont like what i'm seeing



Since nobody has named the guy in question, I don't know for sure if this applies, but there was a thread recently asking about a gear dealer who used to post here all the time, but hasn't been heard from in awhile.

In response to that thread, about that guy, another poster wrote (on Jan 25, 2011)-
Quote

I see him all the time at his shop on the dropzone. The shop looks pretty flashy now so I think that's where his time is going.



Maybe we're all talking about different guys, but if not, it's sad that he's still in business and investing in a retail space while you guys are out gear and money.

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maybe we shouldnt name the dealer, as it will get this thread binned in no time.. i think everyone on here knows who we're talking about if they followed the forums for a while..

and since there is now no way to reach the dealer in question, people dont really have to be warned about it, at this time anyway..
“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

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there's just another thread that got resurrected, with interesting questions asked there, add one to one..

let's leave it for now; usually said person chimes in as soon as he is, maybe even rightfully so, "badmouthed"..

i'm more than a little disappointed anyway.. :|

edited to add: right now, the other thread i mentioned is one of the top3; and it aint chutingstar..
“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

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Have you tried contacting the manufacturer directly to report the issue with their dealer? Providing this person is an authorized dealer.



No, I haven't done that yet and yes he says that he is an authorized dealer.



from all i know, he actually is..

i did contact the manufacturer for one piece of gear i've ordered.. as i said, the guy on the phone i only gave my first name, then described the color pattern of the canopy.. i wasnt half way through and he told me my second name and where i lived; and said it would be delivered very soon. two weeks later dhl rang my door. it's NOT the manufacturers that are to blame.. :|
“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

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Yes you are ll talking about me.
However mark my words, I will not leave anyone in the lurch. I wouldn't be able to live with myself doin that.
I currently have three potential people trying to help me with my problems and I will prevail.
Sure, the easy option is to just declare bankruptcy and everyone lose out, these sort of threads kind of force that option upon me really, but I would die before I did that to a skydiver.

Sangi, you only tell half your story a every other post where you moan about people. Don't forget how you 'needed' me to ship your canopy undervalued to get out if taxes, only for your canopy to be returned to me twice now and then you even asked me to delay shipping it for a further two months ao you could save to pay the taxes. Your canopy is sittin her right next to me and you know that, yet you still tell people you don't get replies from me. I just don't know if I want to spend another $200 sendingit toyou for the third time. I have told you to organize your own shipping after you cost me fortune.

Andree, you have every right to moan, I'm having trouble payin you for the reserve...and for the German Vat you had to pay because when I shipped it under valued to you you got caught and had to pay the taxes,,,,oh, my mistake,,,, I mean when the manufacturer shipped you your four rigs and you got stung with taxes.
Not only did you get the gear at dealer pricing but now I have to pay your countries VAT. Now you moan when I was honest to you and told you I'm having financially difficulties.

Anyway, everyone will get their gear, I'm not here to rip people off, I have been one of the largest distributors for four years and then had a year of very bad luck and cash-flow issues building a new store....and it doesn't help when everyone seems to think I'm this big cocaine addict!! Where the fuck did that come from anyway?? Everyone is writing me emails tellin me they hear I'm a drugie. Unbelivable.


Andree take me to court and sue me for not paying German vat and duty. Sangi, take me to court for not getting your canopy into the country under valued so you declined to accept it.


The rest of my customers...you will get your gear. Some might be late, but it will come and those who know me know damn well I will make sure you end up with a good result, even if it means a free trade in for the downsize once you are ready.
Just like we loan you brand new rigs while you wait for your rigs that take 24 weeks to be made, so you get value for money.


I'm sorry for my situation but those who want to hurt my business will force bankruptcy and everyone losses out. How about given me a chance to make things right, get things back on track and save all your gear. I will die trying to before I let a jumper lose a cent.


I will not reply anymore to this thread, I won't even look at it again. I could feel it was here and have ignred it until now. But who fuck it, I ain't hiding from anyone and I'm working hard on saving everything.


.Karnage Krew Gear Store
.

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Set the shop up, then had problems. Things can escalate very quickly. However we are investable. I may have a terrible reputation at the moment but it's nothing a couple of hard years work and service won't fix.

I am sorry for the situation, but I haven't run away or declared bankruptcy. Surely that shows my intentions. I'm proud of what I've done in this industry, I never for a second thought I would end up in this position and it happened very quickly due to personal and financial situations.

If anyone cares to know about my year,
I have two mothers as I'm adopted and was close to both as lived with both. Both died, one after about four strokes in a period of a few months.
I have two fathers obviously as above an one died,
My other father who adopted me had a heart operation and then was diagnosed with parkinsons disease and then diabetes.
My nana died as well as my partners nan and my partner and her mother have both just gone through cancer, and I have had my own health issue. That's the past twelve months and that's not including all the friends we all lost.

I'm not asking for your hearts to bleed by saying that but maybe if any of you guys experienced that just after you opened your first shop and spent the money you sold half your company for on demo rigs, you may understand how hard those 12 months could be. Hard enough to not be able to be on email all day everyday and concentrating on work as much as I needed to.

It's been hard and cash-flow caught up to me.

Shit happens. Now I've got to get it all back on track. Although if you would all like my business to fold and just give up, feel free to keep moaning and turning future customers away.

Otherwise watch this space cause I will at least walk away from this with everyone gettin their gear, if I have to walk away.


Right now, I would suggest those who don't need a demo rig in Australia to buy from mile in chutingstar or Bonnie at gravity gear while we get through this.

We are currently goin over three different investors offers and working out what works best for the company and the vision in the long run.
Those people who get late orders will be offered free downsizes with demo canopies that have 50-100 jumps on them. We will make this right.


.Karnage Krew Gear Store
.

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