jrmrangers 0 #1 February 10, 2011 theres a sabre in the classifieds with 900 jumps on it , 100 on the lines. My question is , does the canopy have enough life left to buy it? Im a newbie and this would be my first rig so all input is welcome.Wait , I pull what first? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
likestojump 3 #2 February 10, 2011 all things being "average" - that canopy is great as a first canopy. 900 jumps is enough to break the material in and make it easier to pack, while newer lines keep it flying well. of course if it was jumped somewhere extremely sunny or extremely dusty, it may be quite faded or dusty, which in turn will shorten the lifespan. PD says : "the zero-p fabric we use can stay "zero-p" for thousands of jumps. A canopy's lines may be out of trim after several hundred jumps, and need to be replaced, but once this is done a zero-p canopy will perform virtually like it did when new. Zero-p fabric is also more resistant to snags and ultraviolet light. We occasionally see canopies with 3000 to 5000 jumps on them that are still perfectly airworthy, and we have heard reports of our zero-p canopies lasting for 7000 jumps, although these are certainly the exception" re: http://www.performancedesigns.com/faq.asp#15 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jrmrangers 0 #3 February 10, 2011 thanx for the info likestojump!! its a complete rig im looking at and it sounds great now that i feel confident in the canopy.Wait , I pull what first? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevebabin 0 #4 February 10, 2011 Don't jump an original Sabre. They will, on occasion, open hard enough to injure you. Don't take my word for it...Do a search on here with the key words "Sabre" and "hard Opening" There is a better way today. There are many parachutes that will serve you better for the same money. Be wary of anyone that tells you that it's a good canopy. They either don't have a clue, or they don't have your best interests in mind."Science, logic and reason will fly you to the moon. Religion will fly you into buildings." "Because figuring things out is always better than making shit up." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 93 #5 February 10, 2011 Quote Don't jump an original Sabre. They will, on occasion, open hard enough to injure you. Don't take my word for it...Do a search on here with the key words "Sabre" and "hard Opening" There is a better way today. There are many parachutes that will serve you better for the same money. Be wary of anyone that tells you that it's a good canopy. They either don't have a clue, or they don't have your best interests in mind. Doing that search will also show that many have used simple mods to the slider to fix that very effectively. I have never jumped one, but would not be so quick to discount that experience of many others. Besides, PD says that there was never a problem with the original Sabre, any hard openings were due completely to packing technique. People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevebabin 0 #6 February 10, 2011 Quote Quote Don't jump an original Sabre. They will, on occasion, open hard enough to injure you. Don't take my word for it...Do a search on here with the key words "Sabre" and "hard Opening" There is a better way today. There are many parachutes that will serve you better for the same money. Be wary of anyone that tells you that it's a good canopy. They either don't have a clue, or they don't have your best interests in mind. Doing that search will also show that many have used simple mods to the slider to fix that very effectively. I have never jumped one, but would not be so quick to discount that experience of many others. Besides, PD says that there was never a problem with the original Sabre, any hard openings were due completely to packing technique. And PD is, on this issue, full of shit. They have a vested interest in everyone believing that they didn't market a canopy with a serious design flaw. I have jumped many Sabres, with the modded slider, using their packing instructions. They all, on occasion, will smack the shit out of you. There's a better way today. There are a lot of parachutes out there that don't have this inherit problem. The original Sabre is best relegated to duty as a car cover."Science, logic and reason will fly you to the moon. Religion will fly you into buildings." "Because figuring things out is always better than making shit up." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 93 #7 February 10, 2011 Quote And PD is, on this issue, full of shit. They have a vested interest in everyone believing that they didn't market a canopy with a serious design flaw. What? But PD has such a golden reputation! I hear you, but many others have had very good success with the modified sliders. It is good that the OP know about the issue, become better informed before considering the purchase.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Martini 0 #8 February 10, 2011 Well, you clearly have a lot more experience than I do and there is no disputing the hard opening history of some Sabres. On the other hand, not every Sabre owner has had bad experiences, I own five of them, one in particular I would loan to someone needing a super-soft opening canopy because of it's consistent sweet openings. None of my Sabres has a mod, my most recent Sabre came with a slider pocket so big that the canopy sniveled for well over 1000'. I changed to a normal slider and it opened just fine. Packing sensitive, yes. Slider sensitive, absolutely. Evil canopies, no way. And as for the money nothing can even come close, my most expensive Sabre was $400. You hate 'em, I love 'em. No I don't work for PD. Car cover my ass! But keep on dissing them, it keeps the price down for jumpers who like excellent high quality wings for the price of sixteen jumps. I just realized that you must be setting up a smokescreen so you can keep the price down on the Sabre! I'd say thanks but I think I have enough of them already. Sorry if I blew your cover. Sometimes you eat the bear.............. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Martini 0 #9 February 10, 2011 What size is the Sabre? Your wingloading? Got someone at the DZ who is qualified to assess the canopy? Internet advice is no substitute for a talk with your rigger or another experienced and reccommended advisor and hopefully a willing test jumper. Not saying it's a good or bad idea, just don't reject it (or buy it outright) without some advice. One thing to consider is that the Sabre is packing sensitive, not tolerant of poor technique or sloppiness, you'll want good instruction and lots of practice if you want to be happy with the wing.Sometimes you eat the bear.............. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevebabin 0 #10 February 10, 2011 John, read the reviews of this canopy for yourself from this site... http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/gear/review.cgi?ID=17 A collection of quotes about the Sabre that was posted in the reviews: Quote“Openings were problematic at first,” “A lot of people complain of hard openings,” “Lots of u guys out there r trying to blame your hard Sabre openings on the pack job...” I have approximately 1,100 total jumps on sabre 150's and sabre 135's and have experienced a handful of rather brisk openings and 2 of them were excruciating and kept me from jumping for the rest of the day.” “Openings are not so great. In my opinion it would be one thing if it opened hard all the time or soft all the time but it does not. Some openings are good others are not” “Pack carefully, handle the wraped up slider as you would an atomic bomb - as thats what it is! Let the thing slip everywhere then shove in the bag; You will be sorry..” “but about 75% of the time, I get these opening that make me flinch and tighten up every muscle in my body in fear of the opening. Most Sunday nights, when I am driving home, my neck hurts like I was in a car accident, and I have bruises on the insides of my legs that just shouldn't be there... I have tried everything- rolling the nose 4-4, tight rolling the nose together, tight rolling the tail, stowing my lines tight, etc... Nothing helps, don't know what to say about the opening, but I can't wait until I get my PISA Hornet...” “Openings have been brisk, but I've never been slammed (although I lent my rig to a friend and she said she was).” “I've had a very bad opening about every two or three. No matter what I did, tens of rolls everywere or no rolls, spend 1 hour and a half packing it,use the tighest rubber bands ever, it used to hit me.” “I had an instant canopy that knocked the wind from my body. I was in such pain that all I wanted to do was land. After landing discovered the leg straps had grazed the skin from my inner thighs. The next day I was barely able to stand and the black bruising around my thighs meant I looked like I was still wearing my harness.” “I was wacked so hard that I had a compression fracture of T6 and a cracked T12 along with a neck sprain. “in my 90 jumps on it, I had 3 soft openings. This thing was killing me. I had it relined by PD as soon as I bought it and no matter who's advice I took or what I did, I was constantly seeing stars. I tried rolling the nose tightly all to one side and going to the back, I tried nothing with the nose, I tried splitting the nose, I rolled the tail unbelievably tight and still the openings stunk. After an opening where the slider came down fast enough to rip the rubber stops and put a rip in the slider and wrap itself around my face, so all I saw was the orange slider (nice backdrop for the stars), I got rid of it and bought a spectre 150, and will never look back.” “I have had one extremely hard opening that about broke me in half,” ”Most of the openings on Sabres are ok, but it's those slammers! One in every 70 or so jumps, no matter how carefully you've packed, even if you've packed exactly the same as the last 70 pack jobs they can bite. I had one opening on my Sabre 135 that was so hard I thought I had broken a rib! . I could give you plenty of examples of experiences friends of mine have had with bad Sabre openings... by and large the openings on the Sabre are fine but when they bite they're nasty!” “Used to fly a Sabre, and the openings where so bad I had no intentions of ever buying another one” “I jumped my 170 Sabre for about 40 times until I realized that my neck could handle about 50 more openings.” “harder than the saber i used to fly and that spanked me on a regular basis.” “This was welcome from the ever surprising Sabre slam that comes when you least expect it. “ "Science, logic and reason will fly you to the moon. Religion will fly you into buildings." "Because figuring things out is always better than making shit up." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #11 February 10, 2011 QuoteJohn, read the reviews of this canopy for yourself from this site... http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/gear/review.cgi?ID=17 A collection of quotes about the Sabre that was posted in the reviews: Quote“Openings were problematic at first,” “A lot of people complain of hard openings,” “Lots of u guys out there r trying to blame your hard Sabre openings on the pack job...” I have approximately 1,100 total jumps on sabre 150's and sabre 135's and have experienced a handful of rather brisk openings and 2 of them were excruciating and kept me from jumping for the rest of the day.” “Openings are not so great. In my opinion it would be one thing if it opened hard all the time or soft all the time but it does not. Some openings are good others are not” “Pack carefully, handle the wraped up slider as you would an atomic bomb - as thats what it is! Let the thing slip everywhere then shove in the bag; You will be sorry..” “but about 75% of the time, I get these opening that make me flinch and tighten up every muscle in my body in fear of the opening. Most Sunday nights, when I am driving home, my neck hurts like I was in a car accident, and I have bruises on the insides of my legs that just shouldn't be there... I have tried everything- rolling the nose 4-4, tight rolling the nose together, tight rolling the tail, stowing my lines tight, etc... Nothing helps, don't know what to say about the opening, but I can't wait until I get my PISA Hornet...” “Openings have been brisk, but I've never been slammed (although I lent my rig to a friend and she said she was).” “I've had a very bad opening about every two or three. No matter what I did, tens of rolls everywere or no rolls, spend 1 hour and a half packing it,use the tighest rubber bands ever, it used to hit me.” “I had an instant canopy that knocked the wind from my body. I was in such pain that all I wanted to do was land. After landing discovered the leg straps had grazed the skin from my inner thighs. The next day I was barely able to stand and the black bruising around my thighs meant I looked like I was still wearing my harness.” “I was wacked so hard that I had a compression fracture of T6 and a cracked T12 along with a neck sprain. “in my 90 jumps on it, I had 3 soft openings. This thing was killing me. I had it relined by PD as soon as I bought it and no matter who's advice I took or what I did, I was constantly seeing stars. I tried rolling the nose tightly all to one side and going to the back, I tried nothing with the nose, I tried splitting the nose, I rolled the tail unbelievably tight and still the openings stunk. After an opening where the slider came down fast enough to rip the rubber stops and put a rip in the slider and wrap itself around my face, so all I saw was the orange slider (nice backdrop for the stars), I got rid of it and bought a spectre 150, and will never look back.” “I have had one extremely hard opening that about broke me in half,” ”Most of the openings on Sabres are ok, but it's those slammers! One in every 70 or so jumps, no matter how carefully you've packed, even if you've packed exactly the same as the last 70 pack jobs they can bite. I had one opening on my Sabre 135 that was so hard I thought I had broken a rib! . I could give you plenty of examples of experiences friends of mine have had with bad Sabre openings... by and large the openings on the Sabre are fine but when they bite they're nasty!” “Used to fly a Sabre, and the openings where so bad I had no intentions of ever buying another one” “I jumped my 170 Sabre for about 40 times until I realized that my neck could handle about 50 more openings.” “harder than the saber i used to fly and that spanked me on a regular basis.” “This was welcome from the ever surprising Sabre slam that comes when you least expect it. “ It was the most popular PD canopy sold back in those days, there could be more imperfect ones. I'd rather jump it before buying. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
monkycndo 0 #12 February 10, 2011 Over 400 jumps on Sabres from 170 down to 135. Never been spanked. I do load the 135 at 1.6 and had a small pocket put on it to make it a tad softer. I feel Sabres make fine canopies.50 donations so far. Give it a try. You know you want to spank it Jump an Infinity Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrewEckhardt 0 #13 February 10, 2011 QuoteWell, you clearly have a lot more experience than I do and there is no disputing the hard opening history of some Sabres. I wonder how many of the opening problems are coming from "bad" canopies and how many are coming from parachutes with old lines that have gone out of trim. I got my Stiletto 120 with 600 jumps and 0 on the lines and put 600 on it which was enough to shrink the outside lines by 6" and some of the inners 1.5". That was enough to radically change the opening characteristics. I replaced the lower steering lines and toggle lines in the last 100 jumps since they were getting both short (toggle lines replaced around 250 jumps due to shrinkage) and ratty; and the rest of the lines still looked good because all but perhaps 50 of those jumps were made into nice grassy landing areas. If I didn't know better or was unscrupulous I would have passed the canopy on to some one who couldn't tell the difference between trim and canopy problems. Instead it's sitting in a bag because I'm not going to sell it without a reline and service is going to run most of what I'd get selling it. Monarchs are fine too. My second one which was alleged to have "300 jumps" looked worse than the 600 jump Stiletto and 600 jump lineset that followed, could have opened better, and didn't flare too well until I had it measured (it was out of trim) and sent it back for a reline. Opened and flared better after that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tonym3505 0 #14 February 10, 2011 I bought an original Sabre 190 for my first canopy. It slammed me pretty good until someone showed me how to roll the nose while packing. I didn't have problems with it after that. I suggest that you try and demo the canopy before bying it-but at a minimum talk to your rigger. Show your rigger the classified ad and ask him what he thinks of it. Good luck and blue skies. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
moggybean 0 #15 February 10, 2011 Is your profile correct? At 2 jumps you have time to wait before you get your first rig. It's a big investment and you should make your choice carefully and shop around. Check out the gear reviews and see what other people say. In saying that I have 2 sabres and have only been spanked once (hard) after I was lazy and gave it to a packer. I now pack exclusively myself and have not had this problem since - fingers crossed. The advice on getting a rigger to check it out is good advice. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Glandu 0 #16 February 10, 2011 My first brand new canopy was a sabre1 170 and I learned all the basic skills and more like swooping, I also learned a lot from my piloting mistakes, .. oops.... My point is this is not such a bad canopy for beginners,. After +/- 700 jumps, the top center cell had to be replaced ( where the PD label is on) and the lines. If I recall, probably one or two hard openings. To prevent this, the 4-4-1 packing method.... I sold mine after 1000 jumps on it .... It was about time.... It depends on how much it is sold for and its condition ????? At 900 jumps, I wouldn't buy it though and would save more money for a more recent type of canopy.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jrmrangers 0 #17 February 10, 2011 My profile is correct I start my aff in a few weeks. I'm shopping so that if a deal comes up I can jump on it. I have some money set aside for a rig so I'm ready to buy if the right deal turns up.Wait , I pull what first? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
spootch 0 #18 February 10, 2011 Has anyone noticed thier sabre opened better (slower) with more jumps on em? I have found on both sabre 1 and especially my sabre 2 that the magic number was about 4.5-5 inches out. I have heard lots of complaints from people who get a reline done on thier sabre 1 and have the piss beat out of em. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lekstrom10k 0 #19 February 10, 2011 I had 2478 on my Sabre 210 .now 1230 on mySabreII 210 plus 450 on a 190. I think I like them it seems. Get PD's lower steering line length on line . I have just replaced them a few times and got a lot more out of the line sets.I start get snivelly openings about 600 jumps . The line from the cascade to the break loop has been up to 2.5 inches shrunken. new lines good as new.But you have new lines and should be goo d for 600 more easy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
angle228 0 #20 February 10, 2011 +1 I would say the same thing if I made a peice of shit product. for as much money as this shit costs dont be taking any chances. Be patient and find somthing that you are 100 percent sure you will like.I am fucking your mom right now Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CarloC 0 #21 February 11, 2011 I used to have a Sabre 1 135 with 1500 jumps with brand new lines, it lasted 200 more jumps with me until it ripped in a hard opening. The porosity of the material looked just fine and it was easier to pack. It always opened really, really hard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
firstime 0 #22 February 11, 2011 I put about 200 jumps on my sabre 170 loaded at 1:1, the last 40 jumps were kicking my ass so bad that I got rid of it. Not sure if trim, lines would have something to do with it, packed it the same way the whole time.. who knows... went to a spectre.. its like falling into a ball of cotton. Hey the sabre flew great and I will miss the crisp turns and recovery, but at 54 I am not enjoying the "crisp"openings. Still an over all good canopy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Martini 0 #23 February 11, 2011 You're referring to the Sabre as a piece of shit product by inferrence. You know nothing. You have no experience. Your opinion has no value. I may disagree with Steve but I respect his opinion because unlike you he has credibility.Sometimes you eat the bear.............. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevebabin 0 #24 February 11, 2011 QuoteYou're referring to the Sabre as a piece of shit product by inferrence. You know nothing. You have no experience. Your opinion has no value. I may disagree with Steve but I respect his opinion because unlike you he has credibility. Seems to me Angle has the ability to learn from other people's experiences. That's something I can respect. As an anology, you don't have to have lung cancer to know that smoking is a bad idea. You can look at someone dying on a hospital bed and deduce it for yourself without ever picking up a cigarette. There is no good reason for a person today to consider buying a Sabre, given it's track record. Saving a few hundred dollars isn't worth the risk to anyone."Science, logic and reason will fly you to the moon. Religion will fly you into buildings." "Because figuring things out is always better than making shit up." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crotalus01 0 #25 February 11, 2011 My first canopy was a Sabre 190. I loved everything about it except the openings - in 100 jumps on it I had only a handful of soft openings. Most were crisp, and a few were downright brutal. I finally retired it after it opened so hard it broke 9 lines on the left side and tore a cell. I really loved the canopy but I am not as young as I once was and I needed something that had more consistant soft openings. As for me and my house, we will serve the LORD... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
