Good Bye kat69

[Push 0]

I guess sometimes it can be difficult to go on if the people you love alienate you for who you are. I'm very sorry for all involved. Maybe one day people will become more accepting. Blue skies Kat, enjoy the eternal freefall.

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No man is an Illand, intire of it selfe; every man is a peece of the Continent, a part of the maine; if a Clod bee washed away by the Sea, Europe is the lesse, as well as if a Promontorie were, as well as if a Mannor of thy friends or of thine owne were; any mans death diminishes me. - John Donne

-- Toggle Whippin' Yahoo
Skydiving is easy. All you have to do is relax while plummetting at 120 mph from 10,000' with nothing but some nylon and webbing to save you.

[Designer 0]

Sorry!

[dropdeded 0]

Im not going to comment on anything except what I personally have experienced. My life has been affected by someone making several attempts at suicide, and someone that succeeded at suicide.

If its a thought, there is help if you seek and accept it. If someone close has succeeded in taking there life, there is help to deal with it, if you seek and accept it.

dropdeded

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The Dude Abides.
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[diablopilot 2]

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Man, were some of you cruel.

Why should this forum be any different than the rest of the world?

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[Push 0]

Just because everyone else does it does not make it right.

-- Toggle Whippin' Yahoo
Skydiving is easy. All you have to do is relax while plummetting at 120 mph from 10,000' with nothing but some nylon and webbing to save you.

[skygal3 0]

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Why (NO MATTER WHAT) do people try to find fault or ask questions?

Just seems her entire dz.com life was a cry for help. Even by just looking at her profile. I apologize.

[mailin 0]

Her 'entire' life here was very short.

Let not judge folks.


Jennifer

Arianna Frances

[FLYBERT71 0]

Chute,

It sucks when you loose someone. If you would like, come to Snohomish and we can do a jump in memory of her.

((((((((vibes))))))))

"If you have time to panic, you have time to do something more productive."
Josh Whipple 7/15/70-2/10/05

[FunBobby 0]

So sorry. Peace, and God Bless

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FunBobby

[Guest]

That sounds like a good idea.

mh

"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[Michele 1]

I have torn emotions with this whole thing.

First, and foremost, Godspeed, Blue skies, and God Bless Kat, her family, her friends, and all that she knew. Suicide is a difficult thing to deal with, period.

Second, I am one who questioned. It was an oddity, and considering her history here, I had questions. Chute, if you have difficulty with those of us who questioned her last log time, I'd urge you to understand our position. Not forgive, nor necessarily even accept, but at least try to understand.

Muenkel, I gotta say, that was a pretty harsh post. Condemn people for behavior that was detrimental when you know they knew the difference. But do not make judgements on people that did not know what was going on. So reconsider your participation here as you will, but realize that not one person that I am aware of knew she was suicidal. And I promise you, had she reached out, there would have been enormous help for her here, in her life, and in her family, regardless of what she thought.

And lastly, for those who think suicide is selfish, you have no idea what kind of pain a person endures before they decide it would be better to not be here. You have no idea what it takes to bring a person to the point of choosing death over life. You have no earthly understanding - and I hope you never experience it - what a depressed person addresses and deals with daily. I wish I could explain - as articulate as I can be, somehow I stick on this topic - what it's like to deal with self hatred, defeat, horror at the rest of one's life in this kind of mental state.

What I can say - and say very clearly - is that the rationality of things is missing. A suicidal person cannot hear what you hear, cannot see what you see, and cannot feel the love the way a healthy person can. There is no hope, no faith, and absolutely no confidence that anything will change - it will be this way forever. They make decisions from pain, not from rational thinking. They make choices to stop the hurt, rather than understanding where it comes from and addressing it. That, in itself, is impossible at that point. They are unable - literally unable - to think the same way you do, and the same way I do while I am on medication.

So for those who think it's selfish, in most cases it is not a fuck you. It is a welcome surcease of extensive, intensive mental anguish, more than most people can stand. For those who do suicide as a fuck you, well fuck you back. But most are not like that. You know the old saying "when you reach the end of your rope, tie a knot and hang on"? Well, sometimes, you just can't hang on. Sometimes, you just let go. Sometimes, that's the best thing you can think of to do at the time because of the overwhelming circumstances flooding them at the time...and they just let go of the knot because they cannot hold on any longer.

If anyone is thinking of suicide, I am here. I've been there, more times than I can count. I understand the pain, I understand the horror, I understand the overwhelming aspects of it. Reach out, and maybe together we can make a difference in your life. I cannot promise to be kind always. I cannot promise to be nice, always. I can promise that should someone be thinking of killing themselves, they will have an ear with me, and that I will always listen.


Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[crwmike 0]

I don't see it as a judgmental attitude. After I relized she was not a troll, it was easy to see the poster was someone reaching out for help. She was a person in trouble, who was indeed, crying for out for help.

I won't fault someone for that (or fault someone else for realizing it and stating it).

I deal with death several times a month. I understand emotions run ...weird. One of the reasons ritualistic behaviors are so prevalent surrounding death is that sticking to ritualistic responses comforts many and threaten few. I appreciate someone who can move outside that to openly and freely share their real thoughts.

Me? I just listen and wait for a time the healing can start.

Goodby Sister. Blue Skies!

Michael

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Her 'entire' life here was very short.

Let not judge folks.


Jennifer

[Luv2Fall 0]

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I have torn emotions with this whole thing.

First, and foremost, Godspeed, Blue skies, and God Bless Kat, her family, her friends, and all that she knew. Suicide is a difficult thing to deal with, period.

Second, I am one who questioned. It was an oddity, and considering her history here, I had questions. Chute, if you have difficulty with those of us who questioned her last log time, I'd urge you to understand our position. Not forgive, nor necessarily even accept, but at least try to understand.

Muenkel, I gotta say, that was a pretty harsh post. Condemn people for behavior that was detrimental when you know they knew the difference. But do not make judgements on people that did not know what was going on. So reconsider your participation here as you will, but realize that not one person that I am aware of knew she was suicidal. And I promise you, had she reached out, there would have been enormous help for her here, in her life, and in her family, regardless of what she thought.

And lastly, for those who think suicide is selfish, you have no idea what kind of pain a person endures before they decide it would be better to not be here. You have no idea what it takes to bring a person to the point of choosing death over life. You have no earthly understanding - and I hope you never experience it - what a depressed person addresses and deals with daily. I wish I could explain - as articulate as I can be, somehow I stick on this topic - what it's like to deal with self hatred, defeat, horror at the rest of one's life in this kind of mental state.

What I can say - and say very clearly - is that the rationality of things is missing. A suicidal person cannot hear what you hear, cannot see what you see, and cannot feel the love the way a healthy person can. There is no hope, no faith, and absolutely no confidence that anything will change - it will be this way forever. They make decisions from pain, not from rational thinking. They make choices to stop the hurt, rather than understanding where it comes from and addressing it. That, in itself, is impossible at that point. They are unable - literally unable - to think the same way you do, and the same way I do while I am on medication.

So for those who think it's selfish, in most cases it is not a fuck you. It is a welcome surcease of extensive, intensive mental anguish, more than most people can stand. For those who do suicide as a fuck you, well fuck you back. But most are not like that. You know the old saying "when you reach the end of your rope, tie a knot and hang on"? Well, sometimes, you just can't hang on. Sometimes, you just let go. Sometimes, that's the best thing you can think of to do at the time because of the overwhelming circumstances flooding them at the time...and they just let go of the knot because they cannot hold on any longer.

If anyone is thinking of suicide, I am here. I've been there, more times than I can count. I understand the pain, I understand the horror, I understand the overwhelming aspects of it. Reach out, and maybe together we can make a difference in your life. I cannot promise to be kind always. I cannot promise to be nice, always. I can promise that should someone be thinking of killing themselves, they will have an ear with me, and that I will always listen.


Ciels-
Michele

I agree 100%...........well said.

[Jessica 0]

Yes. Depression is a disease that can have a fatal end as sure as cancer.

Someone who takes his own life because of a failing of the mind isn't any more "selfish" than someone who dies of a failing of the body. Depression is a serious, potentially fatal mental illness.

I wish Kat had reached out to us. But depression is not rational, as Michele said, and when there is not a pinhole of light in your life it can be impossible to help yourself.

Hugs to her friends.

Skydiving is for cool people only

[Chute 0]

First of all. Thank you everyone. no matter how you felt about her or what she did. You all have your opinion. She was not offended by what anyone here said or felt. She loved starting sh!t. She was comfortable with her life and how she lived it. Didn't care what anyone felt. Except for her mother. She was scared for what lied ahead as she headed out of the military. I am trained in suicide prevention and what to look for. I did not see any signs. She was loving life. I do not know what was the last straw. Heck I can not even even see a first straw. You can say you see signs as you look back but I knew her and they were not signs. That was just her. Unless she had feeling deep down for many years that were brought out by the conversation she had with her mom. I do not know and I do not what to go back and try to find the what ifs.

Please everyone. Please do not start to get on each other for what they might have said and how harsh it might have been. She had fun on this sight. If she got a bad post about her she would point it out to me or her BF/GFs. With a smile saying something like simple minded or their brain is a closed book. She started sh!t. She loved it. She did not hate anyone here. The last thing she would have wanted is for you all to bicker with each other over her.

Bottomless Beers and Blue Skies!

* Brother_Brian *
D.S.W.F.S.B. #2

[catfishhunter 1]

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I
And lastly, for those who think suicide is selfish, you have no idea what kind of pain a person endures before they decide it would be better to not be here. You have no idea what it takes to bring a person to the point of choosing death over life. You have no earthly understanding - and I hope you never experience it - what a depressed person addresses and deals with daily. I wish I could explain - as articulate as I can be, somehow I stick on this topic - what it's like to deal with self hatred, defeat, horror at the rest of one's life in this kind of mental state.

Ummm Yes I do have an Idea. Battling depression and addiction ALL my life I do know. Having made 3 attempts, 2 of which truly have no rational explantion as to why I survived and after allot of counseling and recovery I still stand by my statement that suicide is a selfish act. Does not mean that the person isn't in true desperation to end their pain, but read that carefully.It is selfish. it is all about ending THEIR pain with no consideration towards anyone else. They do not think about the loved ones that will find them days or weeks later after shitting and pissing all over themselves,cleaning up the grey matter off the walls and ceilings, the horrendous smells that will never be forgotton etc.... So yes suicide is a selfish act, committed in desperation, but still a selfish act.

I do not make these statements lightly nor wish to say this person or anyone else that has chosen to off themselves are bad horrible people . ( I do not veiw myself that way then or now) just that the act in and of itself is selfish.

Godspeed Kat.
Blue skies

MAKE EVERY DAY COUNT
Life is Short and we never know how long we are going to have. We must live life to the fullest EVERY DAY. Everything we do should have a greater purpose.

[bch7773 0]

that really is too bad, man. blue skies to her.

MB 3528, RB 1182

[BETO74 0]

I agree with you. I had a girlfriend that try to commit suicide and went to therapy with her since I was her boyfriend, it was a very hard period in her life an for those around her.
My prayers to her and her family and friends.

Carlos

http://web.mac.com/ac057a/iWeb/AC057A/H0M3.html

[SkydiveNFlorida 0]

Wow, that's terribly sad:( I only read a couple of her posts, and didn't know her, but she was a member here and i've never known anyone who has taken their own life... it seems so very real now.

I am sorry that your friend is gone.
bsbd Kat.
Angela.

[TypicalFish 0]

I am very sorry for your loss, my friend. I lost a life long friend in the same way; he never tried to reach out to those who cared for him and we miss him terribly. It would have been easy to call him selfish, as that is the way that I felt, but I chose for my parting emotion towards my dear friend to not be one of anger but rather one of rememberance of the person that he was and the good times we shared.

My thoughts and prayers are with you and her loved ones. Godspeed.

"I gargle no man's balls..." ussfpa on SOCNET

[Muenkel 0]

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Muenkel, I gotta say, that was a pretty harsh post.

Sometimes the truth is harsh. I have just re-read my statement and I stand by it. There was nothing but good intentions in that post.

Michele, I also agree with what you posted 100%.

Chris

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Chris

[FallnAngel 0]

To Chute - I am truly sorry for the tragic loss of your friend. Please know that I am thinking of you & Kat's friends and family and wish you all the best. She seemed like a vibrant young woman, and I'm sure she will be missed

To Michele - your post is, as usual, eloquent & timely...and one with which I agree.

To Catfishhunter - I think I understand a little of where you are coming from, having had my father-in-law take his own life 5 years ago...and it definitely sounds like you have been through quite a bit in your life. But, your grotesque comments about the physical state of a suicide seem misplaced on a thread about the loss of someone's friend & loved one. I would have hoped that, having been in that terrible state of despair yourself, you might be able to provide Kat's friends & family with some encouragement instead.

Blue skies,
Karen

[Pick 0]

The "stuff" that goes on while you are in the depths of clinical depression simply boggles the mind of most of us.....at least it does once we are able to see it as what it is.....for some, they never see it as what it is, never fall low enough to hit their own trigger to seek help, or...........for lack of a better analogy.......the Cypress never fires.

Put yourself in a place where your ego won't let you seek help and your self-confidence is so low that you have convinced yourself that you can't cross the street on your own.......you feel lonely in a room full of good friends........you can seemingly "enjoy" a party while being completely miserable the entire time you are there. You've perfected the "mask"......making everything look "normal" to everyone else while the feeling like the world is closing in on you and life as you know it is all over.......thank you for playing.........check mate.

We all put on masks at one time or another.....(oh, I love my Chia Pet, Thank You)....(Oh look, a sweater vest!.....thanks!)....but what happens when we never take it off and face reality in the mirror?

Be careful........unfortunately, I've been on both sides. For me, suicide was never an option because I'd already experienced it from "this side".....but depression that leads to suicide is VERY real.

My thoughts and prayers continue to be with Chute, and all of Kat69's friends and family.

[dove 0]

Michele hit it right on the nose. I've been there before too and come mighty close. It had nothing to do with getting back at anyone and everything to do with not being able to cope with the pain and feeling there really was no other way to make the pain go away.

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It is selfish. it is all about ending THEIR pain with no consideration towards anyone else. They do not think about the loved ones

Going by your rules, you would then be selfish to expect them to stick around and endure the intense pain just so you wouldn't have to go through that. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying suicide is an answer. I'm just saying it's not selfish. It is desperation.

God Bless Kat. Hope you have found your peace.

Fall in dove.

[Michele 1]

Heya, Catfish....

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Battling depression and addiction ALL my life I do know. Having made 3 attempts, 2 of which truly have no rational explantion as to why I survived and after allot of counseling and recovery I still stand by my statement that suicide is a selfish act. Does not mean that the person isn't in true desperation to end their pain, but read that carefully.It is selfish. it is all about ending THEIR pain with no consideration towards anyone else. They do not think about the loved ones that will find them

But you said it yourself - there is no consideration. I posit that someone who is doing it not as a fuck you, I hate you all, but rather as a real and honest action from feelings which are not "fuck you" but all others, is NOT being selfish. you also said it in an earlier post that you took those actions to hurt people, because you were hurting. In your case, then, by your own admission, your attempts were "fuck you's". Most suicides, however, are not.

The person who handles the detritus of a suicide is in a horrible place. But it can be addressed with love, rather than with anger. The survivors of the suicide need to get help to move from a point of anger to a point of acceptance, and it can be done.

If a person cannot think of anyone else, cannot hear anyone else, cannot see any hope of things changing, they are not being "selfish", they are ill and need help.

This is difficult....

The first time I considered taking my own life I was 8 or 9. I was not diagnosed with depression until I was in my mid-thirties. I suspected something was really wrong with me, but never had the courage to get help - until I faced a 72 hour committal to a facility, or go onto meds. I chose meds.

Between 9 and 35, there was not a time where I didn't want to be somewhere else. Heaven, I suppose. Just somewhere else. The things that went on in my head were scary.

Imagine a 9 year old thinking they were worthless, and a waste of air.
Imagine a 10 year old thinking they are fat and ugly - and staring in the mirror for hours looking for something "pretty" and never finding it.
Imagine a 12 year old menstruating for the first time, and wishing she could just bleed to death.
Imagine a 15 year old who turns down dates because "who would want me, I'm fat and ugly". This went on for many years. Many.
Imagine...
Well. You get the picture.

Between 9 and 35 there are 26 years. 9490 days. Each day, looking in the mirror hating yourself. 9490 days of thinking you're a waste.

And in that time, I was told I was loved. In those 9490 days, I knew my parents loved me, I made contributions. But I could never see them. I could not understand them. I didn't think I was worth "it" - whatever "it" happened to be that day.

Selfish? Not me. Not most people I know. Selfish? No. Maybe you acted from selfish behavior, but most of those I know never think about the family they will be leaving.

"well, I won't be a burden on anyone anymore." "I won't waste their time anymore". "I'm worthless. No one will miss me" "They'll forget about me soon, it won't be a problem". "It's all right, I never was any good at anything any more". "They won't have to care about me anymore." "I'm not important enough to remember anyway...", and so on.

Damn it. I'm sitting here crying.

Anyway.

Depression is an illness. The sooner we, as a society, accept that and deal with that, the sooner the stigma will be lifted. The best way I've come up with to explain my illness to people - if they're willing to listen - is I am the same as a diabetic, exept the thing my body doesn't produce is not insulin, but seratonin and dopamine. And I don't take a shot to balance things, I take a pill."

Jessica said it perfectly. You can no more label someone who suicides from depression as selfish as you can label someone selfish for dying of a stroke, heart attack, cancer, or falling down the stairs.

I gotta go take a break now. I need to have a good cry, and remember my past is done with, and the future is what I must focus on right now.

Chute, I am sorry you didn't see the signs. I didn't either. Sometimes, they can't be seen.

The best I can say is that if you - whoever you are - are thinking of suicide, please get some help. I will do my best by you. But you have to reach out. No-one will know unless you tell them.

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~