Navigator Wing Load Chart

[deltron80 0]

Dude seriously..you won't be worried about your wing loading when you're in the door for the first time. You will be crying for your mom and you might be strapped to one of these guys you're calling idiots right now.

[davelepka 4]

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It's people like "davelepka" and "likestojump" that leave me wondering if perhaps my money would be better spent on scuba diving trips or building a sport plane. Simply, skydiving interests me, skydivers don't; well, except those like John LeBlanc who clearly know what they're talking about, and can do so at my intellectual level, I actually passed pre-algebra!

Like I said before, don't start jumping, it just wouldn't work out.

The point you have so skillfully missed is that it's not that we don't udnerstand the math you used to come up with your 'chart', it's that we don't understand the point of coming up with the chart in the first place.

What we do understand, and you don't seem to, is that the numbers you are looking at are so inconsequential in terms of canopy flight. The larger up you go in canopy size, the less changes in WL will be noticable, and you're looking exclusively (in this instance) at the largest and slowest canopies made.

Nobody here can tell the difference in performance between changes in the second decimal place on a WL. I have jumped at 2.5+ to 1, and I don't think I could have detected a difference between 2.51 and 2.59, even at that extreme loading. You're looking at loadings well under 1 to 1, and not grapsing why nobody gives a fuck that the chart isn't prefectly linear, and some of the loadings are off by a couple hundreths of a pound.

You think John LeBlanc is your kind of guy? Here's a news flash, John is more like me and likestojump than you will ever be. He's a jumper, and a danm smart one at that, and the reason that the chart his company posted has the 'errors' you found is that they don't mean shit, and aren't errors.

How do you tell the difference between one canopy and the other? As previously mentioned, get off your fat ass and jump them. I've jumped dozens and all different loadings in all different conditions. I've studied the aerodynamics, and experimented with modifying my one canopies. I've flown the highest performance canopies made, and proved my skill in competition. I know what I'm talking about when it comes to parachutes, their operation, performance and applications.

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The shut-up-sign-the-form-and-pay-me-money-attitude of the skydiving industry, SO PROFOUNDLY DEMONSTRATED IN THIS THREAD, requires that I participate in this sport with nothing less than the desire to become an expert in every area of skydiving knowledge

Nobody ever suggested you become an expert, but yes, you should make at least one jump and get a fucking clue, and yes, that costs money. I know this because of the tens of thousands of dollars I've spent on jumping and gear, to educate and provide myself with the expereince needed to speak with authority on the subject.

So yeah, pay up and jump sucker. Everyone else did, now put your money where you mouth is and get you ass off the ground. Until such time, fuck off.

[labrys 0]

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So yeah, pay up and jump sucker. Everyone else did, now put your money where you mouth is and get you ass off the ground.

That's going to be an awesome FJC for whoever teaches it.

Owned by Remi #?

[labrys 0]

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The 254 limit is the STUDENT maximum recommended limit, the Navigator 260's MAXIMUM weight limit is listed as 336 pounds! What does TSO C23c have to do with PD's 254 pound recommended weight limit for students? Answer, NOTHING!

Take another look at what Bill wrote and try to apply some reading comprehension (look it up).

If you still don't get it, I'd suggest you discontinue all your other research until you can manage a paragraph. They are a hell of a lot more forgiving than the high-speed "oh shit" that happens in real life.
And in skydiving and kit airplanes and in scuba.


Or maybe you should just go do some more virtual scuba diving, Steve.

Owned by Remi #?

[airtwardo 6]

and can do so at my intellectual level,

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Ok

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[dragon2 0]

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It's people like "davelepka" and "likestojump" that leave me wondering if perhaps my money would be better spent on scuba diving trips or building a sport plane. Simply, skydiving interests me, skydivers don't; well, except those like John LeBlanc who clearly know what they're talking about, and can do so at my intellectual level, I actually passed pre-algebra!

You're funny.

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[nigel99 143]

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The knowledge of skydiving is impressive for a whuffo.

I have read and studied the SIM, and I can't find the part about how you have to have failed pre-algebra to qualify as a skydiver. Really, I find it disappointing that something as fundamental to skydiving as the weight to canopy size ratio (wing-loading) would cause experienced jumpers to run for cover. What happens when someone wants to discuss the fuel mileage of their cars?

If anyone just thinks I'm being pedantic (look it up), you can thank John LeBlanc at Performance Designs for that. I've found that PD has the best information on their website, and every article written or video made by LeBlanc does an incredibly clear and thorough job of intellectually discussing skydiving concepts without talking down to anyone about it. I was obviously mistaken when I thought "average" skydivers would have the same grasp of basic skydiving concepts as he does. While I know that other canopy manufacturers produce quality products, I think I would find it difficult not purchasing PD canopies as my first gear.

That said, my OP and my "research" was never intended for selecting a first-jump canopy. I've simply been familiarizing myself with different canopies from different manufacturers, how else does one learn the differences between a Fusion, Stilletto, Safire2, or Omni?

And, if that seems wrong to you, let me just say that it's USPA, DZO's, and lawyers who have determined that I am solely responsible for my own safety, training, and equipment. The shut-up-sign-the-form-and-pay-me-money-attitude of the skydiving industry, SO PROFOUNDLY DEMONSTRATED IN THIS THREAD, requires that I participate in this sport with nothing less than the desire to become an expert in every area of skydiving knowledge. What I don't know could kill me or someone else. It's people like "davelepka" and "likestojump" that leave me wondering if perhaps my money would be better spent on scuba diving trips or building a sport plane. Simply, skydiving interests me, skydivers don't; well, except those like John LeBlanc who clearly know what they're talking about, and can do so at my intellectual level, I actually passed pre-algebra!


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My comment was based on the following observations:

A non-jumper would be very unlikely to know all of the following
1) Skygod terminology and attitude
2) Wingloading in detail (hell most wannabe jumpers on the forums are asking questions along the lines of can I jump a wingsuit or do a head-down on my first jump)
3) Exit weight and the fact it is different to body weight (and even the fact that it is relevant)

We are all different and sorry if you are genuinely anal about details.

One point you may want to add to your research is that pretty much all skydivers are egotistical arses and if you dislike them so much there might not be much fun in the sport for you.

Dave may be blunt but he is one of the more experienced jumpers and he knows his stuff.

Skydiving is a dangerous sport (you know that already) and you can't analyse the risks away. One thing I would strongly consider is that if you are by nature someone who needs to analyse and fully understand before you can act, skydiving is probably the wrong sport. In a malfunction you will have approximately 5 to 20 seconds before you are dead, not a situation that lends itself to careful analysis.

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[timmyfitz 0]

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You think John LeBlanc is your kind of guy? Here's a news flash, John is more like me

Doubtful.

[phoenixlpr 0]

A hawk is not hunting flies.

Do not feed the troll.

[sacex250 0]

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Take another look at what Bill wrote and try to apply some reading comprehension (look it up).

Bill's point demonstrated a complete misunderstanding of the point of this thread. His comment makes about as much sense as a whuffo asking, "shouldn't you pull the reserve ripcord before the cutaway handle, isn't the reserve more important?" If a student asked that you'd all be rolling on the floor laughing. Well, here's a whuffo rolling my eyes because someone of Bill's experience, and reputation, would say something so completely useless; and that you think because he said it it must be important. It wasn't!

It's all been said before, no sense repeating it here.

[nigel99 143]

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Take another look at what Bill wrote and try to apply some reading comprehension (look it up).

Bill's point demonstrated a complete misunderstanding of the point of this thread. His comment makes about as much sense as a whuffo asking, "shouldn't you pull the reserve ripcord before the cutaway handle, isn't the reserve more important?" If a student asked that you'd all be rolling on the floor laughing. Well, here's a whuffo rolling my eyes because someone of Bill's experience, and reputation, would say something so completely useless; and that you think because he said it it must be important. It wasn't!

I agree you got Bill there. Not sure what part of the country you are from but maybe when you do AFF you can be reserve side instructor and let Bill take the student slot

If you are genuine you are sweating the wrong details. Nobody is going to put you out under an unsafe wingloading. If you are too fat to fit into standard gear then research larger jumpers and how dz's have helped. Otherwise maybe it is time to see if you have the balls to actually jump before you waste half your life researching things.

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.