labrys 0 #1 January 7, 2011 I had an experience last week that raised some questions in my mind. I did an acrobatic ride and helicopter jump from 10k. I was wearing a Neptune, audible, and CYPRES. The acrobatics were really fun. Barrel rolls, hammerheads, positive Gs, 0 Gs once or twice.... What concerns me is that my Neptune and audible seemed to lose track of reality during and after the manuevers. By the time I exited my audible was stuck on flatline and my Neptune was off by almost 2000 feet. I didnt think about what the CYPRES might be doing until after I landed but after I consided the possibilities, I thought I remembered hearing or reading that it would not arm if it had what it calculated was bogus data. Thats how I would hope it works, anyway. Am I rememering this correctly? Either way I am uneasy about the idea that I turned on my AAD for a special situation jump without thinking through the details.Owned by Remi #? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theonlyski 3 #2 January 7, 2011 QuoteI had an experience last week that raised some questions in my mind. I did an acrobatic ride and helicopter jump from 10k. I was wearing a Neptune, audible, and CYPRES. The acrobatics were really fun. Barrel rolls, hammerheads, positive Gs, 0 Gs once or twice.... What concerns me is that my Neptune and audible seemed to lose track of reality during and after the manuevers. By the time I exited my audible was stuck on flatline and my Neptune was off by almost 2000 feet. I didnt think about what the CYPRES might be doing until after I landed but after I consided the possibilities, I thought I remembered hearing or reading that it would not arm if it had what it calculated was bogus data. Thats how I would hope it works, anyway. Am I rememering this correctly? Either way I am uneasy about the idea that I turned on my AAD for a special situation jump without thinking through the details. Lots of people doing those heli jumps last weekend were having their digi altimeters go crazy. Wear an analogue if you can... There was a vigil that fired on the ride too. Cypres will reconize that its not possible for you to be doing these events in freefall, so it will disarm itself/shut off."I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890 I'm an asshole, and I approve this message Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hvance 0 #3 January 7, 2011 Was on a helicopter last week at Invasion and a friend's Vigil II fired during the ride. Scary. Several riggers said a Cypres would not have fired in the same scenario. Someone on here can surely elaborate.I wish Google Maps had an "Avoid Ghetto" routing option. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
labrys 0 #4 January 7, 2011 This was the Invasion heli. Awesome ride.... Something new to consider before hitting tbe AAD "on" button. Edit to add.. Particularly if you have a door seat with your rig already a quarter exposed.Owned by Remi #? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theonlyski 3 #5 January 7, 2011 QuoteWas on a helicopter last week at Invasion and a friend's Vigil II fired during the ride. Scary. Several riggers said a Cypres would not have fired in the same scenario. Someone on here can surely elaborate. Cypres is designed to analize the data to see if its impossible for the conditions to exist, if it gets confused, it shuts off. Vigils and Argus' don't do that, so they can actually fire a little faster (less processing) Cypres takes a reading that says its met its firing parameters, waits a very short amount of time, and checks again... if its still meeting them, it fires."I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890 I'm an asshole, and I approve this message Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pchapman 261 #6 January 7, 2011 Quote I did an acrobatic ride and helicopter jump from 10k. I was wearing a Neptune, audible, and CYPRES. The acrobatics were really fun. Barrel rolls, hammerheads, positive Gs, 0 Gs once or twice.... Just to clarify, were those maneuvers on the helicopter? What type? Some of those are very advanced helicopter aerobatics, outside normal certification limits. I'm wondering if those maneuvers are the precise ones described or not. (E.g., in proper aerobatics language a barrel roll includes a full 360 degree rotation about the roll axis, etc) This doesn't change the issue you brought up about maneuvering helicopters and electronic sensors. This was with doors open, not a closed cabin, right? I'm not familiar with what Invasion others might be describing. Would that be the Eloy event? And as for the other person reporting an AAD fire in a helicopter, it would be great if someone could be found who had the details! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
labrys 0 #7 January 7, 2011 Quoteproper aerobatics language a barrel roll includes a full 360 degree rotation about the roll axis, etc Sorry, that was a mistake on my part. Not barrel rolls... I meant snap rolls and not through 360 degrees. The other stuff stands wrt to 0/+ G maneuvers and hammerheads. Open door helicopter at the Sebastian Invasion Boogie, not Eloy. Edit.. Not sure what type of heli but it's full time at Sebastian. Bell 40 Edit again... I want to make it clear that I am NOT criticizing the DZ or the heli pilot or the ride OR the maneuvers or the AAD, etc. I am only questioning my decision to turn on my AAD for a jump that I should have considered more carefully before I hit the buttons.Owned by Remi #? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theonlyski 3 #8 January 7, 2011 QuoteEdit.. Not sure what type of heli but was full time at Sebastian. Bell 40 Last I heard, he wasn't flying it anymore cause someone left the seatbelt unhooked and it beat the fuselage up pretty good from 10k"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890 I'm an asshole, and I approve this message Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
labrys 0 #9 January 7, 2011 QuoteLast I heard, he wasn't flying it anymore cause someone left the seatbelt unhooked and it beat the fuselage up pretty good from 10k That's a bummer because he made it very clear that taking responsibility for securing seat belts was important, and if someone didn't do it, they fucked up.. but it doesn't change the bottom line WRT thinking about your gear.Owned by Remi #? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hvance 0 #10 January 7, 2011 QuoteQuoteEdit.. Not sure what type of heli but was full time at Sebastian. Bell 40 Last I heard, he wasn't flying it anymore cause someone left the seatbelt unhooked and it beat the fuselage up pretty good from 10k I heard the same...how frustrating. On my two rides, he was very adamant about the seatbelts. It was a Bell 407. Not a closed cabin. As for the Vigil II fire, there's not too much to say. He didn't feel anything at the time. When he stood up to prepare for exit, everyone noticed his reserve PC in his seat.I wish Google Maps had an "Avoid Ghetto" routing option. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thrillstalker 0 #11 January 7, 2011 QuoteQuoteI had an experience last week that raised some questions in my mind. I did an acrobatic ride and helicopter jump from 10k. I was wearing a Neptune, audible, and CYPRES. The acrobatics were really fun. Barrel rolls, hammerheads, positive Gs, 0 Gs once or twice.... What concerns me is that my Neptune and audible seemed to lose track of reality during and after the manuevers. By the time I exited my audible was stuck on flatline and my Neptune was off by almost 2000 feet. I didnt think about what the CYPRES might be doing until after I landed but after I consided the possibilities, I thought I remembered hearing or reading that it would not arm if it had what it calculated was bogus data. Thats how I would hope it works, anyway. Am I rememering this correctly? Either way I am uneasy about the idea that I turned on my AAD for a special situation jump without thinking through the details. Lots of people doing those heli jumps last weekend were having their digi altimeters go crazy. Wear an analogue if you can... There was a vigil that fired on the ride too. Cypres will reconize that its not possible for you to be doing these events in freefall, so it will disarm itself/shut off. i know the jumper who had the fire, scary shit! there is video of the the almost exit."Never grow a wishbone, where your backbone ought to be." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theonlyski 3 #12 January 7, 2011 Quote Quote Quote Edit.. Not sure what type of heli but was full time at Sebastian. Bell 40 Last I heard, he wasn't flying it anymore cause someone left the seatbelt unhooked and it beat the fuselage up pretty good from 10k I heard the same...how frustrating. On my two rides, he was very adamant about the seatbelts. It was a Bell 407. Not a closed cabin. As for the Vigil II fire, there's not too much to say. He didn't feel anything at the time. When he stood up to prepare for exit, everyone noticed his reserve PC in his seat. And he still got video and stills of the exit Dedication! I'm just pissed... I was really hoping to make a heli jump, but the winds Saturday had us on C-holds, and Sunday it wasn't flying."I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890 I'm an asshole, and I approve this message Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thrillstalker 0 #13 January 7, 2011 Quote Quote Quote Quote Edit.. Not sure what type of heli but was full time at Sebastian. Bell 40 Last I heard, he wasn't flying it anymore cause someone left the seatbelt unhooked and it beat the fuselage up pretty good from 10k I heard the same...how frustrating. On my two rides, he was very adamant about the seatbelts. It was a Bell 407. Not a closed cabin. As for the Vigil II fire, there's not too much to say. He didn't feel anything at the time. When he stood up to prepare for exit, everyone noticed his reserve PC in his seat. And he still got video and stills of the exit Dedication! I'm just pissed... I was really hoping to make a heli jump, but the winds Saturday had us on C-holds, and Sunday it wasn't flying. the video is from another passenger, not him."Never grow a wishbone, where your backbone ought to be." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BrianM 1 #14 January 7, 2011 QuoteCypres is designed to analize the data to see if its impossible for the conditions to exist, if it gets confused, it shuts off. Vigils and Argus' don't do that, so they can actually fire a little faster (less processing) I agree with you about CYPRES vs Vigil, but I would say the Argus behaves more like the CYPRES than the Vigil (based on info from the manufacturer combined with reports about how it has behaved in real-world unusual situations). Without knowing specifics of the algorithms, however, none of us really know exactly how any of them work."It's amazing what you can learn while you're not talking." - Skydivesg Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
indyz 1 #15 January 7, 2011 QuoteCypres will reconize that its not possible for you to be doing these events in freefall, so it will disarm itself/shut off. That statement is too absolute for my liking. Based on anecdotal evidence the Cypres does seem to be better at handling these types of scenarios than other AADs, but the algorithm is a trade secret so any analysis of how will work in these scenarios is a guess or assumption at best. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 135 #16 January 7, 2011 with Cypres 1 + 2 I did not have any firing/shut off in cases of going up + down and fast turns etc, what I would imagine that happened in said helicopter flight scenario.scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TrojanHorse 0 #17 January 7, 2011 QuoteVigils and Argus' don't do that, so they can actually fire a little faster (less processing) Nope, The Argus will inhibit itself in order to avoid a misfire. Regards, William Argus PS what is the anecdotal evidence? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
