Custom container and new reserve- comes packed- repack?

[skyflower_bloom 0]

So- I assume there are (as w/ most things in life) differing opinions, but I'd like to hear some of the rationale behind them. When you receive a rig with a reserve packed inside of it (assume factory direct) do you utilize it as your first reserve pack, or do you get it repacked immediately?

Obviously if it is your first rig, you don't have much of an established relationship with a rigger anyhow (but if you've worked with them through AFF/A lic, you've got something to go on, and if you like me have a reserve ride/save from that rigger, you have some reasonable level of faith in them) and no earthly idea which rigger packed the reserve before shipment at the manufacturer.. is it paranoid or prudent, or just a personal choice, to have your home dz rigger do a reserve repack when they inspect the gear for you and do all those other lovely tasks (AAD, etc.)?

Any feedback, yay or nay, or your own experiences are appreciated; I'll- of course- ask around my dz and my own rigger, but I am guessing she'll say that it is of upmost importance that I have HER and only her repack it at once ;) Naw, I trust her (morally to not take advantage, and technically as a rigger), and would gladly pay for her to do a repack just to know someone I trust did it, just not sure if it's overkill, or whether there are things she could do on inspection to ensure (as best one can) that things were done right? Or, perhaps check the seal, see if she knows/trusts that rigger who did it prior? Idk.. I will of course check with her, just wanted varying perspectives!! And I know more than I would like to that we are all human and all make mistakes, and any good rigger can screw up, just wanting to know what is standard, or what people think are the logical arguments for or against, or other factors involved.

Thanks, blue ones,
R

"You must be the change you wish to see in the world." Gandhi

[AggieDave 6]

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When you receive a rig with a reserve packed inside of it (assume factory direct) do you utilize it as your first reserve pack, or do you get it repacked immediately?

It depends. If it is a Vector packed by Pablito, then the rig stays packed and I use that packjob until it expires. If it comes from the factory by a rigger I don't know or trust, then it goes to my rigger for a repack.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[davelepka 4]

It's a personal choice. You chose to buy a rig from whatever company, which means you trust them to design and build your rig for you, so you should probably also be able to trust them to hire a good rigger. All riggers go through the same training to get their ticket, and most of them do a pretty good job, so when you add in the fact that a manufacturer would hire this person to pack rigs for them, it's probably a pretty good rigger.

However, if there is any doubt in your mind becasue it was not packed by 'your' rigger, then by all means pull the silver handle (with your rigger present) and have it repacked. It is your rig, and you are free to do what you please with it.

In addition to getting to practice actually pulling the handle on your own rig, you can also arrange to be present when your rigger does the repack. She can show you the 'insides' of the rig, how everything is hooked up, and how it all gets packed in there. A little knowledge can go a long way.

The downside is that it will cost you the price of another repack.

[normiss 723]

This.

It comes down to trust.
It's only your life after all.

[captain1976 0]

A Riggers License is a FAA Airman's Certificate. Like an airplane that you fly or fly in, you generally don't question who worked on it last, you just trust it was performed in accordance with the manufacturers requirements.

Same thing with reserves. Whether the pack job comes from the factory ready to use or is packed by a private rigger, you really need to trust that its right.

Though it may have happened somewhere in the history of skydiving, I have never heard of a reserve assembled wrong and similar to a main, if the lines check out, it will probably open with no issues.

You live more in the few minutes of skydiving than many people live in their lifetime

[mchamp 1]

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When you receive a rig with a reserve packed inside of it (assume factory direct) do you utilize it as your first reserve pack, or do you get it repacked immediately?

It depends. If it is a Vector packed by Pablito, then the rig stays packed and I use that packjob until it expires. If it comes from the factory by a rigger I don't know or trust, then it goes to my rigger for a repack.

+1 Pablito is THE man!

For info regarding lift ticket prices all around the world check out
http://www.jumpticketprices.com/dropzones.asp

[councilman24 37]

Reserves have been found without stitching, harnesses with glue only, and I've had one or two assembled wrong.

ALL riggers are human. Even the ones at the manuf. Either you trust them or not but they can all make mistakes, as can the people at the sewing machines and the inspectors. Rare but happens.

To OP.

Since I'm my own rigger it's easy. I look at everything myself. But I wouldn't much hesitate to tell a customer if they want it packed at the factory go right ahead.

You have to figure out who you want to trust. Some jumpers will only have ONE rigger pack their rig. I've done one for about 8 years even though the guy moved 800 miles away six years ago. Another customer got free pack jobs at the dz they worked at, still drove 3 hours to have me do it. (Both for no good reason)

Other jumpers don't give a rat's ass who packs it. And many their main these days. They throw it on the pile, reserve or main, and get it back and pay the bill.

Depends on what kind of person you are.

Also, whether you wait or have it done right away schedule to watch it packed. If the rigger doesn't like it find another rigger. I always welcome customers to watch, but they actually get a BETTER packjob, or at least a potentially better packjob, if they don't watch because I'm not distracted. I told a new girl friend/jumper this once and she had the best come back I've ever heard. "I'll just watch you pack someone else's."

Brand new gear? I'd have another 'final' inspection by having it packed at home.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[normiss 723]

Exactly.

[sundevil777 98]

When you buy a new rig, you'll likely have to pay a separate charge to have canopies assembled (not just packed) to the container, so you can either pay to have it assembled and packed at the factory, or pay to have your rigger do it.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[D22369 0]

If its packed by someone I dont know but my rigger does and tells me he would trust it then I probably would, if its someone he doesnt know and trust I would have it inspected and repacked by him.

hell, even if my rigger trusted him I may have an I/R done, its my life, and I trust very few with it - a second glance may pick up on something missed.

my rigger goes through a full inspection each repack, I have been there, seen it many times on my rig and others so I know how meticulous he is - not all riggers are created equal

Roy

They say I suffer from insanity.... But I actually enjoy it.

[demoknite 0]

As a private rigger myself, I usually pack my own rig. But with that knowledge I know how a parachute works and how a reserve is designed to be that much more reliable than the main. I would let anyone with the ticket pack my reserve and not think twice. Youve trusted the manufacturer to construct your rig based on federal standards, why would you not trust them to go ahead and pack/assemble it based on federal standards? Funny how people will throw their rig on a pile and let some 16 year old "packer" pack the main under the dubious "supervision" of a rigger, but OMG I only trust my own personal rigger to pack the reserve.
More than likely you dont know the person who serviced the aircraft you jump from, the car you drove to the DZ in or the roads you drove to the DZ on and they all have to be up to a federally mandated standard.
Jump that shit.

[fcajump 158]

Well... as I have a new rig and reserve on order... I am facing this same question. Bottom line for me, I want my rigger to perform a "full seam inspection" before I put the rig on.

This is easy to make sure it gets done as I am my own rigger, but its certainly not "free"... it takes time and keeps me from making money on someone else's rig at that time.

I've been given a hard time (good naturedly) by several manufacturers who question whether or not I trust their quality control. Sorry... but I've seen and heard of too many QC issues with rigs straight from the factory. This gives me another, independent, inspection to verify it was constructed and configured correctly (and as expected).

So, when mine gets here, it'll get the same "full seam inspection" that I give any rig I've never seen before. As a rigger, its my double check that the thing was built correctly.

Normal/recurring inspections are to make sure its still that way.

JW

Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

[obelixtim 134]

I had an AAD (FXC) serviced at the factory and fitted it back on a tandem rig....on the next jump the reserve popped and the TM had a two out......fortunately nothing eventuated apart from a bit of a rush for the TM.

It turned out that during the service it had been reassembled incorrectly, and the opening shock caused it to come apart and pop the reserve.

With a reserve, it pays to be confident in it, because its your arse on the line.

Its your call.

My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

[JerryBaumchen 1,259]

Hi captain,

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in the history of skydiving, I have never heard of a reserve assembled wrong

Well, there was the time that the Coors team was in training as the US Team. They had gotten all new gear, fresh packed from a factory. Craig Fronk had a malfunction & when he used his reserve ( a round fortunately ) he found that it was on backwards.

No one is perfect, and that includes me. Like some others here, I'm a rigger so it would be an easy decision for me.

JerryBaumchen

[obelixtim 134]

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Craig Fronk had a malfunction & when he used his reserve ( a round fortunately ) he found that it was on backwards.

I remember back in the days when one of our riggers set his round reserve up backwards deliberately.

His reasoning was that as it was likely that a reserve ride would find him going backwards in windy conditions, he would get the benefit of what little
drive he could get, but would be able to turn the canopy around around in order to do a forward PLF on landing.

On a regulr inspection of a reserve at a meet one time I found a packing pin still in a reserve. Would have resulted in a total.

My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

[DrewEckhardt 0]

Quote

So- I assume there are (as w/ most things in life) differing opinions, but I'd like to hear some of the rationale behind them. When you receive a rig with a reserve packed inside of it (assume factory direct) do you utilize it as your first reserve pack, or do you get it repacked immediately?

I knew one jumper who got an assembled container that was missing stitching.

Catching those problems sooner means you're more likely to end up with a free rig than a funeral.

[riggerrob 598]

If you buy your reserve, container and AAD all from the same major dealer (at the same time) they usually include "free" assembly and packing. When I worked for Square One, I assembled and packed hundreds of brand new rigs for customers that I never saw.

Major dealers (like Square One) only hire the better riggers and you need to be a better rigger with a strong work ethic to survive in that sort of fast-paced, "sales-driven" work place. Even if your new rig was assembled by a Senior Rigger, there was always a Master Rigger - within earshot - to provide guidance and a filing cabinet full of manuals.

After assembling and packing a few hundred new reserves, you develop a rhythm ... a pattern ... a routine and after a few hundred pack jobs, you get into habits that are impossible to break. While I may not have seen the outside of Square One's building in a decade, I still maintain the same inspection habits.

Mind you, some of my inspection habits were developed when I worked as a production, final inspector for Butler Parachute Systems, back when they were in California City.

[RiggerLee 61]

I don't generally talk bad about other riggers but...

Hands down the worst/most creative work I've ever seen has come from out side the US. Keep in mind that there are places where there simply are no riggers.

Oddly the second worst group is manufacters. It sounds odd but I've seen more mistakes and creative practices come straight from the builder/big dealer then any where else. Part of it mmay just be the fact that other sets of eyes have not had the chance to catch the mistakes. Some of it is riglets becomeing creative with out adiquit supervision. But the bottom line is that I've seen a lot of scary stuff show up in the mail.

If you've got the cash it might not hurt to double the number of eyes that look it over before you jump it.

Lee

Lee
[email protected]
www.velocitysportswear.com

[theonlyski 3]

Since you ordered the same rig as I put together last night (minus my optimum and argus, you got a pd-r and cypres)

Send it to me... I'll make sure it all works

"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

[MarkM 0]

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You chose to buy a rig from whatever company, which means you trust them to design and build your rig for you, so you should probably also be able to trust them to hire a good rigger.

Well, except you can have your rigger also check out the rig to make sure there aren't any issues with it when he/she repacks it.

[skybytch 259]

I wouldn't have a new container and reserve packed prior to having it shipped to me; when I was selling gear I encouraged my customers to do the same. I want to see the reserve and be sure it is what I ordered (mistakes happen), and I want my rigger to inspect, assemble and pack it. Plus, if you have an AAD that will need to be installed after the container arrives, that factory pack job is likely to be wasted.

[airtwardo 7]

Though it may have happened somewhere in the history of skydiving, I have never heard of a reserve assembled wrong and similar to a main, if the lines check out, it will probably open with no issues.

'Probably' isn't good enough for the last bullet...I wanna KNOW what's in there and that everything is stitched and hooked up right.

A few years back I got a new complete rig delivered, my rigger and I went over every inch, it's just worth the $ for me to have that kind of piece of mind.

Never DID figure out why there was a paperclip inside of one of the reserve cells...

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[skybytch 259]

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I have never heard of a reserve assembled wrong

I have. More than one.

[mark 107]

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I have never heard of a reserve assembled wrong. . .

[airtwardo 7]

Wasn't there a guy on here who posted pics of his new rig that he'd jumped for the cycle only to find that reserve was so screwed up it never would have opened...IIRC it was a few years back.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~