Links, French Links or Slinks...?

[fcajump 153]

Which do you prefer?

(risers or any other normal use... obviously a speed link on a PC bridle might not be the best fit...)


Listening to the latest SDR, and Dave was discussing changing the pilot chute bridle link to a soft link as an improvement... While I've worked with both, I just don't see why its considered that much of an improvement...

Your turn...

JW

Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

[riggerpaul 1]

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Listening to the latest SDR, and Dave was discussing changing the pilot chute bridle link to a soft link as an improvement... While I've worked with both, I just don't see why its considered that much of an improvement...

Perhaps because a soft link, properly closed, cannot, short of catastrophic failure, open.

I have seen french links in this and other locations that were loose or had actually opened.

But, in general, I agree with your question - neither seems definitively better to me.

[Unstable 8]

I prefer Soft links, but I spend a lot of time remind folks at the DZ that they are NOT a lifetime investment ~ and need to be replaced every season or so depending on how much you jump.

=========Shaun ==========

[Unstable 8]

**Same with minirisers!

=========Shaun ==========

[sriddy 0]

The main benefit of using slinks on the pc bridle is for wear.

During deployments the bridle rubs against the barrel on the rapide link. With repeated deployments, it will eventually wear through. I have personally seen this on both the bridle-to-canopy connection and the bridle-to-dbag location. Granted, regularly inspecting your gear should identify this issue long before it becomes a problem, but not everybody does that. I have seen someone let it go to the point where he lost his dbag and pc on deployment. (turned his dbag into a freebag)

Other fixes to this problem include wrapping the barrel of the rapide link with duct tape or gaffers tape.

Edited to add:

I believe Mike G from Chuting Star came up with the idea of using slinks in these locations. He explains his reasoning here:

http://www.chutingstar.com/expertadvice_en/rigging.html

Its in the PD slinks wear and uses video.

[Martini 0]

If you change canopies often then slinks are a PITA. Carry a small wrench and bar, change the PC/D-bag in a few seconds. Or wrestle a slink until you'd rather cut the damn thing off. YMMV

Sometimes you eat the bear..............

[fcajump 153]

Quote

Perhaps because a soft link, properly closed, cannot, short of catastrophic failure, open.

Agreed, but we've also seen that:
improperly installed either can fail
each must be periodically inspected to ensure its still serviceable
soft links (eventually) wear out during normal use


And catastrophic failure of the (old/worn out) soft link can (has) occur during critical flight phases.

And price wise (not a major issue... just looking):
SLink ~ $6ea (main slink at paragear.com)
Mallion ~$2.50ea (#4 std) ~400lbs
Mallion ~$7.50ea (#4 SS) ~650lbs

I understand the desire to pull the slider down beyond the links, but now many put the "hats" on them to keep hold the slider up...

And its good that they don't damage slider grommets (of course link covers do that too). But hot grommets also can damage the soft link or risers.

On the other hand, with the right raw line in hand, I can make a new soft link any time... (thanks Jerry)

JW

Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

[councilman24 36]

I want to know if the two people who voted for Speed links even know what they are?

First photo, what I think of.

But it is AMAZING what you find when you do a Google image search. If they were voting for the second photo, I'm with them.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[fcajump 153]

Quote

I want to know if the two people who voted for Speed links even know what they are?

First photo, what I think of.

But it is AMAZING what you find when you do a Google image search. If they were voting for the second photo, I'm with them.

Looks good to me... I'm not sure how good they are at holding lines to webbing, but I'm willing to spend many hours experimenting with them.

JW

Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

[Scrumpot 1]

After seeing the 2nd picture - can I change my vote?

I've used SLinks instead of Rapide's as my main d-bag/canopy/bridal attachment, since they've come out. I'll echo the observation on wear & security as my reasoning. As also mentioned by one other as well - these are not just install 'em and forget 'em in perpetuem though. Before the start of every new season, I also just make it a practice to replace all (5 total per rig) SLinks with new each season.

FWIW.

coitus non circum - Moab Stone

[fcajump 153]

Quote

If you change canopies often then slinks are a PITA. Carry a small wrench and bar, change the PC/D-bag in a few seconds. Or wrestle a slink until you'd rather cut the damn thing off. YMMV

Yea... but if you just keep them on the same risers and move the whole system...?

JW

Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

[virgin-burner 1]

if you buy a canopy from icarus, they come with slinks; and i think the same goes for pd as well..

i might be called a sheep, but if they already ship them that way, why change it!?

and if you have a vector3, you wont need a (s)link of any kind to attach your dbag/bridle to the canopy!
dont know about other manufacturers, but from what i've seen, they're different and you DO need a (s)link..

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[Martini 0]

Two rigs, five canopies all on risers. Easy switching unless the bridle has a slink on it. I do like slinks on risers and they're fine on the bridle but not for switching canopies. BTW I also like a slink on the bridle stop at the dbag, metal links are a real wear point there (Infinity), can be as many as six slinks on a rig.

Sometimes you eat the bear..............

[Beatnik 2]

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I'm not sure how good they are at holding lines to webbing, but I'm willing to spend many hours experimenting with them.

I bet they're fantastic at holding lines to webbing.

[erdnarob 1]

As alway a jumper, like a mountain climber, a scuba diver.... should know his equipment and technique associated, it's a survival factor.
That being said, a soft links is a sort of improvement...lighter, easier to install or replace and stronger than a French link. But that doesn't relieve the jumper from doing a preventative inspection.

For the bridle anchorage, look at the Vector system. They don't use at all any link, just a lark head knot with the bridle cord itself. The best I have seen

Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

[riggerpaul 1]

Quote

As alway a jumper, like a mountain climber, a scuba diver.... should know his equipment and technique associated, it's a survival factor.
That being said, a soft links is a sort of improvement...lighter, easier to install or replace and stronger than a French link. But that doesn't relieve the jumper from doing a preventative inspection.

For the bridle anchorage, look at the Vector system. They don't use at all any link, just a lark head knot with the bridle cord itself. The best I have seen

Actually, back in the days when "conventional" pilot chutes were the norm, most used the larks head. At least, that's how I remember it.

Anyway, "sort of an improvement" is exactly why I said it wasn't a definitive improvement. If you must qualify it with "sort of", I don't consider that a clear win.

[riggerrob 558]

I have only repacked two pilot rigs containing U.S. Navy Speed links. They conformed exactly to the MIL SPEC, right down to their red rubber covers.

Since the red rubber covers never seem to have reached the civilian market, I refuse to repack the other 99% of rigs containing U.S. Navy Speed links. Fortunately, MIL SPEC L-bar links are an easy replacement.

[Martini 0]

just a lark head knot with the bridle cord itself. The best I have seen

Quote

Unfortunately many PC bridles have too small a loop to pull the pc through for a larkshead, both of my current pc bridles are made this way. IMHO a larkshead is the ideal connection, no link neccesary, usually easy to untie/retie, no tools needed, can't come undone, no more and sometimes less wear than a link connection. The larkshead can often turn into a square knot, also a trusty connection.

Sometimes you eat the bear..............

• Quote

[champu 1]

I would generally not recommend using a main slink to install a pilot chute bridal on a d-bag. As noted in the chuting star video, the reserve slink is beefy enough that it can't get pulled through the grommet, but on some d-bags a main slink very well could.

Having the bridle stop link pull through the grommet during deployment can lead to assorted malfunctions.

[Martini 0]

I can only vouch for my own dbags, I believe that the bridle or dbag would break before the slink could pull through the grommet, the bridle is a super tight fit through the grommet. OTOH I have a bridle that's half cut through from wear at the rapide link at the dbag, the pc/bridle probably has around 900 jumps, I retired it mainly because of that condition.

Sometimes you eat the bear..............

[champu 1]

I just dug out some old d-bags, pilot chutes, and slinks to try it out and it definitely depends on the pilot chute / bag combo.

Using a Mirage d-bag (#4 grommet is the relevant characteristic) and a Mirage pilot chute (which has very small loops to route the link through) I'm not sure it's possible to pull a slink through the grommet. But using a Cazer pilot chute, which has longer loops, I was able to pull the bridle through pretty easily (see attached.)

[theonlyski 3]

It LOOKS like thats a main SLINK, is that correct?

"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

[champu 1]

That's correct. As I said, I would recommend against using main slinks to attach your pilot chute bridle to your deployment bag.

[theonlyski 3]

Ahh, didn't notice you were testing the main one...

Does the reserve SLINK make any difference in that configuration?

"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

[champu 1]

I'm at home and I don't have any reserve slinks laying around, unfortunately, so I can't test it.

Reserve slinks are quite a bit more massive than main slinks, but I think if the loops in your pilot chute bridle are long enough it may be possible to pull them through a #4 grommet too.

Personally, I use a french link. Yes it can chew up the loops in the bridle, but I find myself replacing my pilot chute frequently enough anyway where that's not the limiting life factor.