AFF vs AFP

[archi77 0]

I've been contemplating how to get my "A"...a local DZ offers the AFF program. I did my tandem with them last year, which is what got me hooked. Going there, I would be able to space out training to pay as I go, which wouldn't save me any money in the long run, but might be easier financially speaking. But it would probably take me most of the season to finish it, just because I know how my free-time schedule can fluctuate.

As much as I like to remain loyal to the local stores, dz's, etc. sometimes practicality plays a higher priority...

I know Skydive Chicago offers their AFP program, and it sounds great, especially the 1-week program. I know it's more up-front costs, and much more intense, but I would be able to enjoy the sport quicker, for the full season that way. Are there any other plus's or neg's about SDC's AFP that those who've been can share?

Any input for either program would be appreciated. Thanks.

"Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you long to return." Da Vinci

[skybytch 259]

You could probably finish the student jumps in two full weekends at the local dz. Ask them if it's possible.

By learning where you will likely be doing the majority of your jumping later, you'll already kind of know some people when you get that A license and are looking for people to jump with.

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I would be able to enjoy the sport quicker

Is there some part of the student jumps that you think you won't enjoy?

[millertime24 8]

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I would be able to enjoy the sport quicker

Is there some part of the student jumps that you think you won't enjoy?

I think he means cheaper. It was a whole lot more enjoyable for me when I finally didnt have to pay $175 a jump and could make multiple jumps in a day.

Muff #5048

[kallend 1,623]

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I've been contemplating how to get my "A"...a local DZ offers the AFF program. I did my tandem with them last year, which is what got me hooked. Going there, I would be able to space out training to pay as I go, which wouldn't save me any money in the long run, but might be easier financially speaking. But it would probably take me most of the season to finish it, just because I know how my free-time schedule can fluctuate.

As much as I like to remain loyal to the local stores, dz's, etc. sometimes practicality plays a higher priority...

I know Skydive Chicago offers their AFP program, and it sounds great, especially the 1-week program. I know it's more up-front costs, and much more intense, but I would be able to enjoy the sport quicker, for the full season that way. Are there any other plus's or neg's about SDC's AFP that those who've been can share?

Any input for either program would be appreciated. Thanks.

I did AFP at Chicago. I can't think of any negatives.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[archi77 0]

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I think he means cheaper. It was a whole lot more enjoyable for me when I finally didnt have to pay $175 a jump and could make multiple jumps in a day.

Yup, that's what I was intending to say...

"Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you long to return." Da Vinci

[sraja 0]

A few positives about SDC's AFP that most other programs at other DZs dont offer

1. All your jumps are on video as a part of the course - you dont pay anything extra for a video debrief of your jumps
2. Free flying is part of the course - you lean sit flying through the 3 sit fly jumps
3. You get a detailed canopy control course on DVD - you can keep this for future reference at any time
4. I dont know how many other DZs do this but you will learn to fly a relatively high performance (compared to a Manta) canopy (Sabre 2) right from day 1
5. Your graduation jump is whatever you want it to be - 4 way, 5 way, free fly, hybrid, tracking....

[sraja 0]

I would suggest that regardless of whichever course you decided to pursue - spend atleast 5 mins in a tunnel if you can find one nearby and afford it. It will help you enjoy solo freefall and hopefully avoid repeating levels due to common mistakes.

[Para5-0 0]

Am I reading this post right, or at least tell me you are joking? I am tired and must have read it wrong?

[kallend 1,623]

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Am I reading this post right, or at least tell me you are joking? I am tired and must have read it wrong?

What part do you think is wrong?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[JohnDeere 0]

Maybe the free flying part. You know learning to free fly in 3 jumps. It must be nice to be ably to free fly before you get your A Lic.

Nothing opens like a Deere!

You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers!

[Para5-0 0]

Ok here goes,
2. Free flying is part of the course - you lean sit flying through the 3 sit fly jumps

What AFF/AFP course in the US teaches this? Just curious? And what Sit fly jumps? I am a AFFI and am not aware of the sit fly jumps.

4. I dont know how many other DZs do this but you will learn to fly a relatively high performance (compared to a Manta) canopy (Sabre 2) right from day 1
Define H.P. for students? I hope .75 - 1.0.

5. Your graduation jump is whatever you want it to be - 4 way, 5 way, free fly, hybrid, tracking....

Are you serious? Who are the other 5 guys? Coaches, Instructors? Freefly for a AFF graduation jump? Hybrid? Am Iin OZ?

[kallend 1,623]

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Ok here goes,
2. Free flying is part of the course - you lean sit flying through the 3 sit fly jumps

What AFF/AFP course in the US teaches this? Just curious? And what Sit fly jumps? I am a AFFI and am not aware of the sit fly jumps.

There are indeed 3 sit fly jumps in the AFP program. Whether you "learn" in these 3 jumps is another matter, but at least you get the experience of exiting and freefalling in a new attitude.

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4. I dont know how many other DZs do this but you will learn to fly a relatively high performance (compared to a Manta) canopy (Sabre 2) right from day 1
Define H.P. for students? I hope .75 - 1.0.

I did AFP in 1997/98 before the Sabre2 came out. My 1st jump was on a Sabre 190. On my 4th jump I was on a 170. By the time I finished the program I was jumping a Sabre 150.

So yes, there are NO Mantas or other massive canopies.

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5. Your graduation jump is whatever you want it to be - 4 way, 5 way, free fly, hybrid, tracking....

Are you serious? Who are the other 5 guys? Coaches, Instructors? Freefly for a AFF graduation jump? Hybrid? Am Iin OZ?

I did a solo tracking jump for mine.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[sraja 0]

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Ok here goes,
2. Free flying is part of the course - you lean sit flying through the 3 sit fly jumps

What AFF/AFP course in the US teaches this? Just curious? And what Sit fly jumps? I am a AFFI and am not aware of the sit fly jumps.

As Kallend mentioned - sit flying exits are part of the course at SDC. If you can hold the sit - the instructor will be glad to sit fly along with you. Or if you are like me - they'll have you flip back on the belly in about 5 seconds.

Unlike other AFF programs out there - the SDC AFP has 18 levels to clear before you are off student status

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4. I dont know how many other DZs do this but you will learn to fly a relatively high performance (compared to a Manta) canopy (Sabre 2) right from day 1
Define H.P. for students? I hope .75 - 1.0.

HP is a definition for the type of canopy. You wont find yourself flying a F1-11 288 sqft canopy. Instead you will be under a ZP semi-elliptical (please correct me if Sabre 2 is not a semi-elliptical) canopy although lightly loaded (0.8 - 0.9) range.

Like Kallend I started under a Sabre 2 230(0.8 loading) and finished the course with a Sabre 2 210 (1.0 loading)

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5. Your graduation jump is whatever you want it to be - 4 way, 5 way, free fly, hybrid, tracking....

Are you serious? Who are the other 5 guys? Coaches, Instructors? Freefly for a AFF graduation jump? Hybrid? Am Iin OZ?

My graduation jump was a 3 way tracking dive. The other 5 guys are mostly experienced jumpers - coaches, instructors etc. Well if you could hold your sit flying during the AFP course there is no reason why you shouldnt want your graduation jump to be a 2 or 3 way free fly jump.

[sraja 0]

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Maybe the free flying part. You know learning to free fly in 3 jumps. It must be nice to be ably to free fly before you get your A Lic.

I know some folks who were indeed able to hold their sit by the 3rd sit fly exit. Or atleast let me put it this way - they were ass flying - hey! it took me 20 solo sit fly jumps before I was even ass flying.

[Programmer 0]

Pay-as-you-go and spreading things out can have cash flow advantages, but you will probably learn better in a more concentrated course, whether you do AFF, AFP, or something else. The issue is that the first jump of the day is usually all nerves, while the second jump in the same day is more relaxed and conducive to learning for many people. Just something to consider.

[Reginald 0]

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Unlike other AFF programs out there - the SDC AFP has 18 levels to clear before you are off student status

What SDC has done is simply "combined" AFF and the USPA outlined coaching program into “one” program. And 18 jumps does not get a license it is simply the number of jumps required to complete AFF and Coaching. More jumps are required (25 total) to get a license and truly be “off student status”. The program simply is SDC's twist on the current USPA Integrated Student Program. Many DZ across the country have done the similar things.

"We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP

[kallend 1,623]

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Unlike other AFF programs out there - the SDC AFP has 18 levels to clear before you are off student status

What SDC has done is simply "combined" AFF and the USPA outlined coaching program into “one” program. ..... The program simply is SDC's twist on the current USPA Integrated Student Program. Many DZ across the country have done the similar things.

Nope!

If anything, it's the other way around. SDC's AFP program pre-dates the ISP by many years. I did AFP in 1997-8, well before ISP existed or was even a gleam in USPA's eye, and AFP had been going long before that. Several other dropones picked up on AFP prior to the introduction of ISP (Roger Nelson helped set them up).

I'd suggest that the ISP was based on the AFP program since there are very obvious similarities and AFP came first.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Fast 0]

I personally think that doing AFF at the place you figure you are going to be jumping is better. You will get to know people and have an easier time getting into the group. You will get to know the locals a lot better and these are the people that have to train you after you learn what AFF/AFP teaches you. (How to survive.)

The people at your local DZ are going to be your mentors, jumping partners and friends. AFF/AFP in a week is a cool thing, but I don't think it's all that much better than just getting it done at your "home dz."

Not knocking skydive chicago, its a cool place. Just speaking from the standpoint of an instructor at a smaller dz.

Also, haha man... the person who posted "wind tunnel time" is just funny. I mean, sure it would be nice, but... c'mon most people just don't have access to that type of thing!

~D
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

[idodsick 0]

i am a fan of SDC as went though their AFP program in 2006. as stated before it is a more comprehensive program compared to others. once you do get your A there are some world class LO's(mike wittenburg FF, tj hinde RW) as well as the DZO himself rook nelson. those guys have pushed me harder and helped me progress my skills both quickly and safely.
just my $0.02

the diamond can not be polished without friction, nor a man perfected without trials.

[Fast 0]

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i am a fan of SDC as went though their AFP program in 2006. as stated before it is a more comprehensive program compared to others. once you do get your A there are some world class LO's(mike wittenburg FF, tj hinde RW) as well as the DZO himself rook nelson. those guys have pushed me harder and helped me progress my skills both quickly and safely.
just my $0.02

Right, but that is beside the point I am making. You are obviously local enough to SDC to continue jumping there. The original poster is from Pennsylvania. That's a long way to travel every weekend to go skydiving. The AFP program they do might get you a bit of a kickstart in learning skydiving, but it isn't going to do anything for helping you get to know the locals.

~D
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

[SkyTory 0]

There were many AFP students last summer who came from all over the US. The farthest was from New York. Your argument of getting to know the locals is an odd priority in my opinion when examining the types of training you'll be receiving.

[popsjumper 2]

Personally, I think the AFP is, hands down, much better training than the AFF. I wish I was part of an AFP training program. We do AFF here.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[lclplmbr 0]

Wouldnt the base skills taught in SDC's AFP program be more of an important basis to have than the friendships created from going through another program at a "home dz". So what if he learns at one dz and makes another his home. The part that is important is the knowledge learned and the skills that are developed. I learned at SDC. I have also been to small dz's in other states that teach AFF. In talking to them they seem to like the things I have brought up about the AFP program just on the general outline description of the jumps. And yes these are other AFF instructors. Your way may be the way you are used to but sometimes change is needed to evolve to a higher level.

[popsjumper 2]

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...The part that is important is the knowledge learned and the skills that are developed. ....

Worth repeating...a million times.
Good stuff!

That's why I prefer AFP over AFF...much more knowledge imparted in the training process.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[Fast 0]

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...The part that is important is the knowledge learned and the skills that are developed. ....

Worth repeating...a million times.
Good stuff!

That's why I prefer AFP over AFF...much more knowledge imparted in the training process.

Not at all arguing with the fact that an AFP like program is going to teach more than doing 7 levels of AFF and turning the person loose. My DZ does an AFP like program too and it works well.

All I am saying is that, over the last few years I have read plenty of stories on here from people who quit skydiving because they couldn't make friends at the DZ cause they didn't have tits. It isn't right, but going through the program at the dz you plan to keep jumping at will go a long way to helping that. Especially if it is a bigger DZ. Maybe the dz by him does do some kind of AFP program but they just don't call it that so this student didn't call it that on here. We don't really know. At my DZ we call it AFF but there are 25 levels split between instructors and later coaches.

~D
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka