beekay 0 #1 November 20, 2010 hi I am a beginner wondering if an older bullet container is worth purchasing? If in good condition will it be safe and applicable, and will it pose any limitations for me? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IanHarrop 37 #2 November 20, 2010 The best guy to talk to is the guy that made it, Al MacDonald is straight up and will give you honest answers to any questions you ask [email protected] http://flyinghigh.net/ Cheers, Ian"Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
petejones45 0 #3 November 21, 2010 Quotehi I am a beginner wondering if an older bullet container is worth purchasing? If in good condition will it be safe and applicable, and will it pose any limitations for me? It would be safe for belly down flying but anything besides that it won't be. save your money and by something a little more modern. also i think but am not sure but only rounds can go into the reserve tray. if someone could clarify that for me that would be appreciatedLook out for the freefly team, Smelly Peppers. Once we get a couple years more experience we will be a force to be reckoned with in the near future! BLUES! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #4 November 21, 2010 I have packed a few square reserves into Bullets, but that was while ago. The other limitation on Bullets is that the manufacturer never published instructions on how to install a modern, electronic AAD (Cypres, Astra, Vigil, Argus, etc.) which will limit how many DZs you can jump at. AADs are not mandatory at Canadian DZ, but more and more DZs will not allow you to jump without an AAD. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,047 #5 November 21, 2010 Hi Rob, Just curious: What restrictions are there in Canada about an appropriately rated rigger just installing an AAD pocket? The Bullet is not certificated. JerryBaumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Beatnik 2 #6 November 21, 2010 QuoteWhat restrictions are there in Canada about an appropriately rated rigger just installing an AAD pocket? The Bullet is not certificated. There really isn't any. Even if the Bullet was TSO'd it wouldn't technically matter because it doesn't have the same value up here or is a requirement to be used. I don't want to comment to much on the whole system publicly. If you want to know more about it, I can send you a PM. There are a few loopholes that many aren't aware of and I feel it would be better to not make them public. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #7 November 21, 2010 QuoteHi Rob, Just curious: What restrictions are there in Canada about an appropriately rated rigger just installing an AAD pocket? The Bullet is not certificated. JerryBaumchen ...................................................................... Flying High is being really vague about sewing Cypres pockets into Bullets. FH has never published drawings about how to sew Cypres pockets into Bullets and I have never seen a Bullet with an electronic AAD installed, so have not factory example to copy. I think that is because FH have not made a Bullet in more than a decade .. more like two decades ... and do not want to be bothered with a product that will not make them a profit. Bullets border on obsolete in Canada. A few people were still jumping Bullets when I moved to British Columbia a decade ago, but the last time I packed a Bullet was six months ago, and that Bullet will probably sit on the shelf forever. It is hard to find anyone still jumping a Bullet in British Columbia. Airtec takes a hard line about who can sew in Cypres pockets, saying that only riggers who have passed their training program are allowed to sew in Cypres pockets. Other AAD (AAD Vigil, FXC Astra and the Argus factory) manufactures say very little, generally following Airtec's lead. At arm's length, I cannot tell the difference between Cypres pockets and Vigil pockets. CSPA also takes a hard line, saying that only Rigger Bs (equivalent to FAA Master Rigger) may sew in Cypres pockets. Rob Warner FAA Master Rigger CSPA Rigger Examiner Airtec certified to sew in Cypres pockets FXC factory trained to chamber test FXC 12000, etc. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,047 #8 November 21, 2010 Hi Rob, Quote Airtec takes a hard line about who can sew in Cypres pockets CSPA also takes a hard line, saying that only Rigger Bs (equivalent to FAA Master Rigger) may sew in Cypres pockets. An option 'may' be to get pocket(s) for the FXC ASTRA & use them. They are a somewhat generic pocket with no logos/marking/etc of any kind on them. And they are a 'very' close copy of a CYPRES pocket. JerryBaumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #9 November 21, 2010 Sure Jerry, You could always use a generic pocket for an electronic AAD. One could even manufacture their own AAD pockets. Like you, I take a sceptical view of certificates and licenses, because I feel that it is more important for riggers to UNDERSTAND the process when they alter parachutes. As Sandy Reid used to say: "If you don't understand something, copy it exactly." It would be foolish for someone with limited sewing skills - and no Airtec purple binder - to try to retrofit any AAD to any container. A smarter rigger would sew in a close copy of the Cypres installation in a similar two-pin container (e.g. Strong Tandem), however, heaven forbid that a customer "thunder in" whilst wearing your (undocumented) alteration. That day, you would stand alone in court! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Beatnik 2 #10 November 21, 2010 QuoteSPA also takes a hard line, saying that only Rigger Bs (equivalent to FAA Master Rigger) may sew in Cypres pockets. While you are correct on this. It is only a CSPA thing, there really isn't any regulation or anything preventing it from happening. It is like packing pilot rigs in Canada. Show me some regs on them. I have my ratings but CSPA doesn't really govern anything outside of the skydiving realm. While your statements about the Bullet and CSPA are correct, there isn't any real restriction about sewing an AAD pocket in. Just be warned I will fight you on this one if you try to come back saying that I am wrong. I have done the research into all of this and am very familiar with what the actual restrictions are and how they are applied. I am not saying to take a outside approach but there is nothing stopping you from doing so in Canada. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #11 November 23, 2010 "... It is only a CSPA thing, there really isn't any regulation or anything preventing it from happening. It is like packing pilot rigs in Canada. Show me some regs on them. I have my ratings but CSPA doesn't really govern anything outside of the skydiving realm. .................................................................. Not really sure where you got this concept????? CSPA lists five types of containers - that CSPA riggers can be certified to pack: 1-pin sport (e.g. Javelin), 2-pin sport (e.g. Bullet), Pop-Top, chest and pilot emergency parachute. A CSPA Rigger must be signed off on all other types of containers before he/she can get certified to repack PEPs. As an aside, I have repacked PEPs for a Transport Canada Pilot Examiner and a sub-contractor to the Canadian Armed Froces for the last few years. They seem to think that my CSPA and FAA rigging qualifications are sufficient. Mind you, Transport Canada seems to prefer to ignore parachutes .... Rob Warner CSPA Rigger Examiner FAA Master Rigger for all types Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Beatnik 2 #12 November 23, 2010 QuoteNot really sure where you got this concept????? CSPA lists five types of containers - that CSPA riggers can be certified to pack: 1-pin sport (e.g. Javelin), 2-pin sport (e.g. Bullet), Pop-Top, chest and pilot emergency parachute. A CSPA Rigger must be signed off on all other types of containers before he/she can get certified to repack PEPs. As an aside, I have repacked PEPs for a Transport Canada Pilot Examiner and a sub-contractor to the Canadian Armed Froces for the last few years. They seem to think that my CSPA and FAA rigging qualifications are sufficient. Mind you, Transport Canada seems to prefer to ignore parachutes .... First thing I am going to mention because this is a real annoyance of mine and is a poor argument method and faulty reasoning is an argument from authority. As far as I know I have not seen you being titled up there as the guru of parachutes in Canada. Believe it or not there are times you are wrong. Just something I have to get off my chest. What I got is not a concept. CSPA is just CSPA, there is no mention anywhere law wise that riggers have to be CSPA or FAA for that matter in Canada. There are many people in Canada that pack PEPs without a rigger rating and it is completely legal. The rating system that CSPA has, which is more than you mention (I know I have all the ratings too), doesn't hold any weight when it comes to PEPs. It is simple something that they don't have any right to govern and while CSPA might require all the ratings the world outside it doesn't. Them thinking it is sufficient is far from what is actually required or what the restrictions are. I have already mentioned people packing without "rigger ratings" this happens for the same people that you have worked for, Transport Canada and the Canadian Forces (we dropped the armed years ago). They seem to think that is sufficient as well. So what does that mean? I have worked for the same people probably a lot higher up the chain than you have. I am well aware of the regulations and deal with them constantly. Check into the regs, there is a lot more then what you think. Being able to apply and understand the regs and what they say is a lot different than just reading them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 135 #13 November 23, 2010 out of curiosity, can we see pictures of that rig ? Never heard of it scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IanHarrop 37 #14 November 23, 2010 Hey Jim, Just thought these words could be applied to you too: "As far as I know I have not seen you being titled up there as the guru of parachutes in Canada. Believe it or not there are times you are wrong." Not saying that anything you've said in this thread is wrong, but just that you always have a way of saying things that includes a dig at other people. "Just something I have to get off my chest." Ian "Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AlMacDonald 0 #15 November 23, 2010 I just became aware of this thread. The Flying High "Bullet" harness/container system was designed in the mid 70's, with the last one produced in 1994. To date I have only ever had one request to install a Cypres AAD, which I did after consultation with Airtec. We both agreed that for the length of time the Bullet has been out of production and for only one request, it would not be worth anyone's time to publish installation instructions. For anyone in the field who wishes to have a Cypres installed in an old Bullet, I'd suggest the time honoured "contact the manufacturer". [email protected] Al MacDonald Flying High Manufacturing Inc. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
spootch 0 #16 November 24, 2010 Quote Hey Jim, Just thought these words could be applied to you too: "As far as I know I have not seen you being titled up there as the guru of parachutes in Canada. Believe it or not there are times you are wrong." Not saying that anything you've said in this thread is wrong, but just that you always have a way of saying things that includes a dig at other people. "Just something I have to get off my chest." Ian crunch crunch crunch crunch ................... slurp............crunch crunch crunch crunch............ slurp, slurp..............buuuurrrp! OMG ! we got Rob, Ian, Jim and AL all in the same thread !!!! True icons of Western Canadian skydiving! fuck the popcorn and soda, I'm switchin to Wiskey! We now return you to your thread still in progress. There will be no more interuptions Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Beatnik 2 #17 November 24, 2010 Hi Ian: Quote Not saying that anything you've said in this thread is wrong, but just that you always have a way of saying things that includes a dig at other people. No worries, the words can be applied to me as well. I don't believe that I personally try to project that when I post. The thing I was trying to point out was to not throw out credentials to a given argument to try and win a side of an argument. Which is done a lot. In regards to the way I say things, they may come out a lot worse than they are intended and I will apologize for this and any others I have done previously. Most people who know me know I don't really beat around the bush and I can be rough at times. I don't mind if others are like that with me as well, all is fair. Rob, I apologize if I offended you with my statement. I personally don't like like arguments from authority mainly because it is a reasoning error that people should believe something that someone has said only because of the credentials behind their name. Like I said before what you have said, is true to an extent but there really aren't any restrictions in this country. There may be restrictions within a certain sport organization. But they have no ability to impose a "restriction" nationwide, which is what the question was asking and isn't a concept. I hope this doesn't stir the pot more cause I am really not trying to do that. At least not this time. Jim Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Beatnik 2 #18 November 24, 2010 QuoteTrue icons of Western Canadian skydiving! Soon that will have to change to Eastern Canadian skydiving. I am moving east in a few months. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
