Kerry makes sense here

[kallend 1,623]

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A recently retired Lt. Col from the Pentagon says that her office (OSP) was set up by Cheney/Rummy to massage the intel to the liking of Rummy/Cheney/Bush and go around the usual checks of CIA analysis.

I noticed the first part said set up by

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Cheney/Rummy

I didn't see Bush listed there.

But you DID list him as a recipient of this info. Even you are saying that he didn't set up the office.

Also got a link?

I already gave it twice yesterday, once earlier in this thread.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 1,623]

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Last time I heard, he was not running for president in 2004. Maybe you heard differently.

Old Joe Kennedy was a traitor, IMO.

Last I heard...Prescott Bush was not running either.

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=940606#940606

Neither is Franklin Roosevelt or Harry Truman. If you don't like historical references, get on John Rich's case.

But doesn't it make you feel good that your hero's family fortune came in large part from trading with the Nazis?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Ron 7]

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Neither is Franklin Roosevelt or Harry Truman. If you don't like historical references, get on John Rich's case

You sure you are not a history prof??? With a grasp like that you might want to change over.

Rich brought up a very good argument based off of someone bitching about the current war and the PRESIDENT sending folks in. He used historical references of OTHER PRESIDENTS doing the same thing...You brought up the current presidents family. Which made it fair game and fun for me to bring in the Dem's favorite families past.

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But doesn't it make you feel good that your hero's family fortune came in large part from trading with the Nazis?

Well Bush is not exactly my hero. He IS the current President (CiC) and I think he was a better choice than Gore. And right now I think he is a better choice than "both sides" Kerry.

And as for the Nazis....Don't stoop to trying to get emotions into an argument. What Prescott Bush did 50 years ago has nothing to do with GWB the current Pres.

And I only brought up the Kennedy past when you would not let Prescott's past go.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Kennedy 0]

What's that rule billvon likes to bring up, about when one side is so out of steam they have to bring up Hitler?

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[panzwami 0]

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Classic liberal response. Anyone dares make a statement that is not glowingly positive, respond by making an extremely inflammitory, yet unsubstantiated, accusation aimed at pointing the spotlight (read: liberal media) anywhere else.

Matt
-----

And the suggestion that Kerry is orchestrating the "war hero" stuff is substantiated? I don't see that any more substantiated than the comments of Lieutenant Colonel Karen Kwiatkowski, formerly of the Office of Special Planning, on the massaging of intel for Bush/Cheney.

I'm not sure I understand what you're getting at here. I absolutely think Kerry is waving his medals around and trumpeting his military service as a means for beating his own chest. His ads say it, his campaign staff say it, and he himself brings it up at virtually every opportunity.

As for whether or not he is a "war hero", that is a different question. Personally, I have a very hard time retaining respect for someone whose actions were a direct cause of harm to other war heroes who were not as fortunate as he to be out of harm's way. I have a close relative who was a POW in Vietnam, and long before this debate started, I was given firsthand accounts of the suffering that was endured by countless American heroes because of the actions of kerry and others like him. And instead of apologizing to those people who suffered because of his actions, kerry would rather point to his post-war record as an indicator of his heroism. I don't believe actions like that are indicitive of a true hero.

As far as the intel question, I did not at any point in that article see any reference at all to any actions taken at the behest of President Bush himself. It provides no evidence at all that the President was even aware of what was going on in that office, and certainly fails even to begin to show that he ordered it to happen.

Matt
-----

[PhillyKev 0]

Ron...I see you criticizing Kerry for saying two different things all the time. What's your opinion on Bush saying things during his campaign and not following through (and in some cases doing the opposite)?

Here are some of his campaign promises:




Bush said his tax cut would not cause deficits, even in a bad economy.

Bush said Social Security Trust Fund would remain in a lockbox.

Bush promised to pay down a record amount of the national debt.

As part of the bipartisan education reform, Bush promised to spend more money on education.

Bush promised to increase the maximum Pell Grant award, thereby increasing access to higher education.

Bush promised to "fully fund" LIHEAP (the Low Income Home Energy Assistance Program).

Bush pledged to provide Medicare prescription drug coverage for all seniors.

Bush promised to listen to sound science and local officials before deciding to bury the nation's nuclear waste at Yucca Mountain.

Bush promised to make higher education more accessible by helping students with high costs.

Bush was asked on ABC News whether he would veto the McCain-Feingold bill, and he replied, "Yes, I would."

The administration imposed duties averaging 29 percent on Canadian "softwood" lumber. During the campaign, Bush talked about establishing "free trade from northernmost Canada to the tip of Cape Horn."

[kallend 1,623]

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What's that rule billvon likes to bring up, about when one side is so out of steam they have to bring up Hitler?

Godwin's law relates to comparisons with Hitler and the Nazis. Not applicable to this case.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[SkydiverRick 0]

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Ron...I see you criticizing Kerry for saying two different things all the time. What's your opinion on Bush saying things during his campaign and not following through (and in some cases doing the opposite)?

Here are some of his campaign promises:




Bush said his tax cut would not cause deficits, even in a bad economy.

Bush said Social Security Trust Fund would remain in a lockbox.

Bush promised to pay down a record amount of the national debt.

As part of the bipartisan education reform, Bush promised to spend more money on education.

Bush promised to increase the maximum Pell Grant award, thereby increasing access to higher education.

Bush promised to "fully fund" LIHEAP (the Low Income Home Energy Assistance Program).

Bush pledged to provide Medicare prescription drug coverage for all seniors.

Bush promised to listen to sound science and local officials before deciding to bury the nation's nuclear waste at Yucca Mountain.

Bush promised to make higher education more accessible by helping students with high costs.

Bush was asked on ABC News whether he would veto the McCain-Feingold bill, and he replied, "Yes, I would."

The administration imposed duties averaging 29 percent on Canadian "softwood" lumber. During the campaign, Bush talked about establishing "free trade from northernmost Canada to the tip of Cape Horn."

Well if they're both the same we might as well keep Bush in.

never pull low......unless you are

[kallend 1,623]

Quote

Quote

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Classic liberal response. Anyone dares make a statement that is not glowingly positive, respond by making an extremely inflammitory, yet unsubstantiated, accusation aimed at pointing the spotlight (read: liberal media) anywhere else.

Matt
-----

And the suggestion that Kerry is orchestrating the "war hero" stuff is substantiated? I don't see that any more substantiated than the comments of Lieutenant Colonel Karen Kwiatkowski, formerly of the Office of Special Planning, on the massaging of intel for Bush/Cheney.

I'm not sure I understand what you're getting at here. I absolutely think Kerry is waving his medals around and trumpeting his military service as a means for beating his own chest. His ads say it, his campaign staff say it, and he himself brings it up at virtually every opportunity.

As for whether or not he is a "war hero", that is a different question. Personally, I have a very hard time retaining respect for someone whose actions were a direct cause of harm to other war heroes who were not as fortunate as he to be out of harm's way. I have a close relative who was a POW in Vietnam, and long before this debate started, I was given firsthand accounts of the suffering that was endured by countless American heroes because of the actions of kerry and others like him. And instead of apologizing to those people who suffered because of his actions, kerry would rather point to his post-war record as an indicator of his heroism. I don't believe actions like that are indicitive of a true hero.

As far as the intel question, I did not at any point in that article see any reference at all to any actions taken at the behest of President Bush himself. It provides no evidence at all that the President was even aware of what was going on in that office, and certainly fails even to begin to show that he ordered it to happen.

Matt
-----

Perhaps you can explain WHY Bush used the "uranium from Africa" lie in his State of the Union address AFTER having been told by the CIA that it was unfounded. That's AFTER, just in case you missed it.

Bush's statements on WMDs walk, smell and quack like lies. Apparently OSP was set up to provide intel that was more to the liking of the WhiteHouse than the stuff the CIA was providing.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[SkydiverRick 0]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

Classic liberal response. Anyone dares make a statement that is not glowingly positive, respond by making an extremely inflammitory, yet unsubstantiated, accusation aimed at pointing the spotlight (read: liberal media) anywhere else.

Matt
-----

And the suggestion that Kerry is orchestrating the "war hero" stuff is substantiated? I don't see that any more substantiated than the comments of Lieutenant Colonel Karen Kwiatkowski, formerly of the Office of Special Planning, on the massaging of intel for Bush/Cheney.

I'm not sure I understand what you're getting at here. I absolutely think Kerry is waving his medals around and trumpeting his military service as a means for beating his own chest. His ads say it, his campaign staff say it, and he himself brings it up at virtually every opportunity.

As for whether or not he is a "war hero", that is a different question. Personally, I have a very hard time retaining respect for someone whose actions were a direct cause of harm to other war heroes who were not as fortunate as he to be out of harm's way. I have a close relative who was a POW in Vietnam, and long before this debate started, I was given firsthand accounts of the suffering that was endured by countless American heroes because of the actions of kerry and others like him. And instead of apologizing to those people who suffered because of his actions, kerry would rather point to his post-war record as an indicator of his heroism. I don't believe actions like that are indicitive of a true hero.

As far as the intel question, I did not at any point in that article see any reference at all to any actions taken at the behest of President Bush himself. It provides no evidence at all that the President was even aware of what was going on in that office, and certainly fails even to begin to show that he ordered it to happen.

Matt
-----

Perhaps you can explain WHY Bush used the "uranium from Africa" lie in his State of the Union address AFTER having been told by the CIA that it was unfounded. That's AFTER, just in case you missed it.

Bush's statements on WMDs walk, smell and quack like lies. Apparently OSP was set up to provide intel that was more to the liking of the WhiteHouse than the stuff the CIA was providing.

What does your answer have to do with the fact that Kerry is strutting his "hero status" around like a rooster in a barn yard? Why does everything go back to Bush with you?

never pull low......unless you are

[Ron 7]

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Ron...I see you criticizing Kerry for saying two different things all the time. What's your opinion on Bush saying things during his campaign and not following through (and in some cases doing the opposite)?

#1 this is a Kerry thread...But I'll play.

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Bush said his tax cut would not cause deficits, even in a bad economy.

Are you sure the tax cuts did it...Maybe there were other issues. I don't know like a terroist attack that hit an already damaged economy...And the cost of a War, and the cost to defend the country?

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Bush said Social Security Trust Fund would remain in a lockbox.

Don't know about this so Im not going to say till I do.

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Bush promised to pay down a record amount of the national debt.

Again you think a war on terror, the impact it had on the economy and the spending needed to protect the US was forseen? You think Clinton could have done better given the same situation? I don't.

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As part of the bipartisan education reform, Bush promised to spend more money on education

No Child left behind.

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Bush promised to "fully fund" LIHEAP

http://www.ncat.org/liheap/revisions/budget.htm

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The President's FY 2005 budget, released February 2, proposes LIHEAP funding at $1.85 billion and would increase emergency funding from $100 million to $200 million. In addition, the President's budget requests $500,000 to conduct an evaluation of LIHEAP.

Quote

Bush pledged to provide Medicare prescription drug coverage for all seniors.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/medicare_01-29-03.html

Looks like he tried one way already...But got told no by a judge.

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Representatives of drug store and pharmacist groups said the judge’s decision effectively killed the Bush administration’s idea in its current form.


"It's dead in its tracks," John Rector, a senior vice president for the National Community Pharmacists Association, said. "I hope they've learned their lesson."

Iteresting enough the judge was U.S. District Judge Paul L. Friedman who was apoointed by CLINTON and has done several shaddy things when it came to Clinton during his term.

http://www.alamo-girl.com/03152.htm

And http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a36b9333c7376.htm

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U.S. District Judge Paul Friedman, who in December dismissed 17 of the 24 charges they each faced, threw out two of the remaining counts against Kanchanalak, a key figure in the investigation of foreign money raised in the 1996 re-election campaign of President Clinton and Vice President Al Gore.

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The Senate today rejected a compromise Medicare prescription drug plan that would have given full drug coverage, minus a two-dollar co-payment, to seniors who earn less than about $17,000 a year. The plan was the third major prescription drug benefit proposal to fail in two weeks.

So THREE proposals that failed in two weeks...Seems like he keeps TRYING.

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Bush promised to make higher education more accessible by helping students with high costs.

There are more people in college today than before Bush.

On Your buddy Clinton

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Since 1992 the public high school graduation rate in the United States has declined, from 71.2
percent in 1992 to 67.8 percent by 1998. This rate has been declining since 1983, and the decline
continued under Clinton/Gore.

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The college continuation rate for recent high school graduates increased from 61.7 percent in 1992
to 62.9 percent by 1999. This was a far smaller increase than under previous presidents since 1973.

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Under President Clinton's Hope and Lifetime Learning Tax credits enacted in 1997, the college
continuation rate for recent high school graduates dropped sharply in 1998 and 1999.

Between 1992 and 2000 the freshman-to-sophomore dropout rate in higher education increased
from 32.4 to 32.7 percent.

Between 1992 and 2000 the 5-year graduation rate from colleges and universities declined from
49.9 to 45.6 percent.

Source http://www.postsecondary.org/archives/previous/99900GOREBUSH.pdf Notice how I include these?

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Bush was asked on ABC News whether he would veto the McCain-Feingold bill, and he replied, "Yes, I would."

I did read his statement after he signed it...

http://www.commoncause.org/mccainfeingold/bushstatement.htm

Quote

This legislation is the culmination of more than six years of debate among a vast array of legislators, citizens and groups. Accordingly, it does not represent the full ideals of any one point of view. But it does represent progress in this often-contentious area of public policy debate. Taken as a whole, this bill improves the current system of financing for federal campaigns, and therefore I have signed it into law.

Some things were changed..and while the bill was not perfect he thought it was a good bill. And that courts would make the final choice on it.

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The administration imposed duties averaging 29 percent on Canadian "softwood" lumber. During the campaign, Bush talked about establishing "free trade from northernmost Canada to the tip of Cape Horn."

The Anadians were "dumping" the lumber int he US...And US lumber was being hurt by it...Would you rather the US lumber companies go under?

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The Commerce Department determined in its investigation that Canada subsidizes its industry by charging low fees to log public lands and allows its producers to sell their lumber in the United States at below-market prices, an illegal practice known as dumping.

"While the final duty rates do not fully offset the amount of injury to the U.S. lumber industry, this decision substantiates the U.S. lumber industry's claim that the Canadian government subsidizes Canadian lumber mills," said Rusty Wood, the chairman of the U.S. Coalition for Fair Lumber Imports

So I guess you would rather have Amercans out of work while the Canadian goverment subsidizes the lumber they produce? Maybe in good Dem' fasion we could just put the american on welfare when they lose their jobs?

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[PhillyKev 0]

Yes, I'm sure you can come up with reasons WHY Bush went back on his word. But that wasn' t my question. You also put out arguments about why what he ended up doing was better than what he said he'd do. I made no judgments about any of his promises or actions.

My question was, what do you think about the fact that Bush has said many things and done the opposite? It seems to really bother you about Kerry, any particular reason it doesn't bother you about Bush other than partisan bias?

Quote

On Your buddy Clinton

I've asked you this a couple times before in other threads but you haven't answered. Why is Clinton my buddy? When have I ever used Clinton as an example of a good president, or compared Clinton to Bush? Or again, is this your partisan bias kicking in making the assumption that all those who don't like Bush love Clinton?

[Ron 7]

Quote

My question was, what do you think about the fact that Bush has said many things and done the opposite? It seems to really bother you about Kerry, any particular reason it doesn't bother you about Bush other than partisan bias?

On the issues I knew about it didn't bother me...

Lets take the candian lumber issue...Free trade would be great in some ways...However it is unfair to expect American lumber companies to compete in cost with Candian companies that are subsidized by the Government. Also Bush said he would support free trade...Well I bet it was FAIR trade as well... The Lumber situation was not fair, and it was after the econonomy took a nose dive.

Putting tariffs on inports is a very time honored and trusted way to allow the US economy to try and compete against other countries with lower (or in this case subsidized) labor costs.

And still bush didn't change his STANCE like Kerry does at the drop of the hat. The Lumber issue is ONE tiny part of the overall package.

Kerry changes his side more than most change underware...And not just on the small parts....The whole damn story.

Im a war hero/Winter solider

Thats a big difference.

Kerry tried to cancel weapon systems that are being used right now as we type. He himself called the cuts "ill-advised" and "stupid" Blaming his inexpereence as a canidate (This was 84 so he had only been in politics like 12 years) and a campain that drove him to the left...Again with that as the wind blows thing.

Kerry proposed cuts in funding the CIA in the 1990's Now he wants a better intelegence operation..Ok so I want BETTER intel, so I'll cut the budget???

Kerry supported Bushes No Child Left Behind...Now he is a critic of it...I support it...But its bad?????

He helped write the Patriot act...Now he hates it....Look what I wrote...I hate it?????

Kerry opposed the death penalty for terroists, but now he Supports it????

Kerry opposed the Bush medicare drug bill...But didn't care enough to be there when it was voted on.

Kerry shifts his WHOLE position...Bush has had to make small shifts to get things done...In some cases having to fight Clinton placed judges.

Quote

I've asked you this a couple times before in other threads but you haven't answered. Why is Clinton my buddy? When have I ever used Clinton as an example of a good president, or compared Clinton to Bush? Or again, is this your partisan bias kicking in making the assumption that all those who don't like Bush love Clinton?

You never said you didn't like him..And you have defended him several times. I don't tend to defend folks I don't like...Maybe you do.

Kerry seems to be a good man...But his two timing stances on almost EVERY issue bothers me. And they are BIG leaps.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[kallend 1,623]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

Classic liberal response. Anyone dares make a statement that is not glowingly positive, respond by making an extremely inflammitory, yet unsubstantiated, accusation aimed at pointing the spotlight (read: liberal media) anywhere else.

Matt
-----

And the suggestion that Kerry is orchestrating the "war hero" stuff is substantiated? I don't see that any more substantiated than the comments of Lieutenant Colonel Karen Kwiatkowski, formerly of the Office of Special Planning, on the massaging of intel for Bush/Cheney.

I'm not sure I understand what you're getting at here. I absolutely think Kerry is waving his medals around and trumpeting his military service as a means for beating his own chest. His ads say it, his campaign staff say it, and he himself brings it up at virtually every opportunity.

As for whether or not he is a "war hero", that is a different question. Personally, I have a very hard time retaining respect for someone whose actions were a direct cause of harm to other war heroes who were not as fortunate as he to be out of harm's way. I have a close relative who was a POW in Vietnam, and long before this debate started, I was given firsthand accounts of the suffering that was endured by countless American heroes because of the actions of kerry and others like him. And instead of apologizing to those people who suffered because of his actions, kerry would rather point to his post-war record as an indicator of his heroism. I don't believe actions like that are indicitive of a true hero.

As far as the intel question, I did not at any point in that article see any reference at all to any actions taken at the behest of President Bush himself. It provides no evidence at all that the President was even aware of what was going on in that office, and certainly fails even to begin to show that he ordered it to happen.

Matt
-----

Perhaps you can explain WHY Bush used the "uranium from Africa" lie in his State of the Union address AFTER having been told by the CIA that it was unfounded. That's AFTER, just in case you missed it.

Bush's statements on WMDs walk, smell and quack like lies. Apparently OSP was set up to provide intel that was more to the liking of the WhiteHouse than the stuff the CIA was providing.

What does your answer have to do with the fact that Kerry is strutting his "hero status" around like a rooster in a barn yard? Why does everything go back to Bush with you?

Because it was addressed to this statement by Matt:

"As far as the intel question, I did not at any point in that article see any reference at all to any actions taken at the behest of President Bush himself. It provides no evidence at all that the President was even aware of what was going on in that office, and certainly fails even to begin to show that he ordered it to happen.

Matt "

As far as I can see, Bush is likely to be a candidate for President in the Fall. That makes his behavior relevant. It does not make FDR, JFK, or Joe Kennedy relevant, but it does make Bush relevant.

That's the same Bush whose wartime exploits appear to have consisted of defending Alabama while seated in a dentist's chair.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Kennedy 0]

Quote

As far as I can see, Bush is likely to be a candidate for President in the Fall. That makes his behavior relevant. It does not make FDR, JFK, or Joe Kennedy relevant, but it does make Bush relevant.

It would have been nice if you included Bush's grandfather's acts as irrelevant also.

Quote

That's the same Bush whose wartime exploits appear to have consisted of defending Alabama while seated in a dentist's chair.

That's a slight against national guardsmen everywhere, and I severely hope you didn't mean that to come out as it did.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[kallend 1,623]

Quote

Quote

As far as I can see, Bush is likely to be a candidate for President in the Fall. That makes his behavior relevant. It does not make FDR, JFK, or Joe Kennedy relevant, but it does make Bush relevant.

It would have been nice if you included Bush's grandfather's acts as irrelevant also.

Quote

That's the same Bush whose wartime exploits appear to have consisted of defending Alabama while seated in a dentist's chair.

That's a slight against national guardsmen everywhere, and I severely hope you didn't mean that to come out as it did.

Other National Guardsmen showed up for duty. Bush produced records of having been paid, and records of a dental examination. After being trained as a fighter pilot (which costs taxpayers well over $1M) there don't appear to be much in the way of records of his having actually sat in a cockpit.

If anything, you slight Guardsmen by comparing them to Bush.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[mjosparky 3]

Bill,
You are wrong, Kerry's 4 month get your ticket stamped does not give him and insight into shit. If he ever drove a river boat it was a short joy ride. Officers don't drive. And I would be surprised if he spent more than 10 days during the whole 4 months on opps. or on patrol. Again, officers did not drive.

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[antimike 0]

Quote

allow the UN to do its job.

12 years is a enough time!!

[antimike 0]

Quote

And, of course, you can now be killed by terrorists. GWB's watch has seen the first chemical and biological attacks against our government, and it saw 9/11. You want another four years like that? (You could always be killed by terrorists, of course, but most people didn't realize that until 9/11.)

JEEZ your blaming GWB for that Bill, Usually your posts have some kind of intelligent thought behind them. That last statement is ridiculous.

[kallend 1,623]

Quote

Bill,
You are wrong, Kerry's 4 month get your ticket stamped does not give him and insight into shit. If he ever drove a river boat it was a short joy ride. Officers don't drive. And I would be surprised if he spent more than 10 days during the whole 4 months on opps. or on patrol. Again, officers did not drive.

www.snopes.com/politics/kerry/service.asp

Looks to me like his service was more legitimate than a certain other presidential candidate's.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[mjosparky 3]

Quote

Quote

Bill,
You are wrong, Kerry's 4 month get your ticket stamped does not give him and insight into shit. If he ever drove a river boat it was a short joy ride. Officers don't drive. And I would be surprised if he spent more than 10 days during the whole 4 months on opps. or on patrol. Again, officers did not drive.

www.snopes.com/politics/kerry/service.asp

Looks to me like his service was more legitimate than a certain other presidential candidate's.

"Indeed, the Silver Star citation makes clear that Kerry's performance on that day was both extraordinary and risky."
His performance was not extraordinary, that was his job, seek out and kill Charley. It was done everyday by countless young men. As far as risky, for those that don't know it, Combat can cause serious injury or death.
"
According to Kerry's Bronze Star citation (signed by Admiral Zumwalt himself):"
Bull shit, Zumwalt signed a thousand things a day, or more likely his staff did, unless you told him he would not know he signed a citation for Joe Blow.

"Although there was no hard-and-fast rule, U.S. military procedure generally allowed any serviceman who received three Purple Hearts to request reassignment away from a combat zone,"
Again I call Bull shit, it was a hare and fast rule, if you were hit three times you were out of country, period.

If you insist on "authentication" you have got it. I spent 11 months, 21 days in the hills and valleys of Qang Tri Province playing tag with NVA regulars. I saw what men did in combat to earn The Bronze Star, Sliver Star and the CMA. What ever awards Kerry has or for that matter how he got them doesn't mean a thing. He remains a piece of shit and a disgrace to memory of those who came home is a box. If you are unable to address this issue then I am done with you. Go buy a GWB doll, sit in the corner, play with your lip and punch the doll.

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[kallend 1,623]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Bill,
You are wrong, Kerry's 4 month get your ticket stamped does not give him and insight into shit. If he ever drove a river boat it was a short joy ride. Officers don't drive. And I would be surprised if he spent more than 10 days during the whole 4 months on opps. or on patrol. Again, officers did not drive.

www.snopes.com/politics/kerry/service.asp

Looks to me like his service was more legitimate than a certain other presidential candidate's.

"Indeed, the Silver Star citation makes clear that Kerry's performance on that day was both extraordinary and risky."
His performance was not extraordinary, that was his job, seek out and kill Charley. It was done everyday by countless young men. As far as risky, for those that don't know it, Combat can cause serious injury or death.
"
According to Kerry's Bronze Star citation (signed by Admiral Zumwalt himself):"
Bull shit, Zumwalt signed a thousand things a day, or more likely his staff did, unless you told him he would not know he signed a citation for Joe Blow.

"Although there was no hard-and-fast rule, U.S. military procedure generally allowed any serviceman who received three Purple Hearts to request reassignment away from a combat zone,"
Again I call Bull shit, it was a hare and fast rule, if you were hit three times you were out of country, period.

If you insist on "authentication" you have got it. I spent 11 months, 21 days in the hills and valleys of Qang Tri Province playing tag with NVA regulars. I saw what men did in combat to earn The Bronze Star, Sliver Star and the CMA. What ever awards Kerry has or for that matter how he got them doesn't mean a thing. He remains a piece of shit and a disgrace to memory of those who came home is a box. If you are unable to address this issue then I am done with you. Go buy a GWB doll, sit in the corner, play with your lip and punch the doll.

How can you or I address this issue, neither of us witnessed the events in question. It's all hearsay. And you have no particular reason to be offensive to me.

Maybe Kerry should have stayed home to defend Alabama.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Ron 7]

Quote

How can you or I address this issue, neither of us witnessed the events in question. It's all hearsay. And you have no particular reason to be offensive to me.

Maybe Kerry should have stayed home to defend Alabama.

OMG...You have a military vet with WAY more time in country than you, me or Kerry telling you what it was like, and you don't want to take that as good enough.

Kallend some times you really kill me. You want proof, and you get it.

Then you say some BS like "stay home and defend Alabama"...when you say that you slam EVERY NG and Reserve solider in America.

I am ashamed of you. You are losing so you stoop to bringing up Prescott bush and use the famous "Nazi defense".

Then you slam every citizen solider.

What have you done for the US or your Queen?

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[mjosparky 3]

You should go buy the doll because it seems you are unable to address the issue at hand.

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[kallend 1,623]

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How can you or I address this issue, neither of us witnessed the events in question. It's all hearsay. And you have no particular reason to be offensive to me.

Maybe Kerry should have stayed home to defend Alabama.

OMG...You have a military vet with WAY more time in country than you, me or Kerry telling you what it was like, and you don't want to take that as good enough.

Kallend some times you really kill me. You want proof, and you get it.

Then you say some BS like "stay home and defend Alabama"...when you say that you slam EVERY NG and Reserve solider in America.

I am ashamed of you. You are losing so you stoop to bringing up Prescott bush and use the famous "Nazi defense".

Then you slam every citizen solider.

What have you done for the US or your Queen?

Interesting double standard there Ron.

A whole bunch of people slam a guy who won a Silver Star and a Bronze Star in combat, questioning what he did and the way he did it, and we don't hear a peep from you. But mention the fact that Bush served out his time in Alabama and you jump up and down in outrage. Could it have something to do with their current political affiliation? No, you wouldn't be so obvious as that.

PS I'll PM you what I've done for the USA. Then feel free to comment.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.