captain1976 0 #1 September 16, 2010 Does anyone else here wear a belly band? There was a bunch of discussion on them a few years ago on the forums and even comments that they were coming back, but so far I’m the only one to my knowledge who has one. I originally installed one on my previous rig to carry a flag pouch for demo’s, but I liked it so much for general jumping I put one on my newest harness. I like the way it keeps the rig from moving around and I have it attached with a quick ejector so its easy to release. http://s875.photobucket.com/albums/ab313/captain19762003/?action=view¤t=rig.jpgYou live more in the few minutes of skydiving than many people live in their lifetime Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #2 September 16, 2010 A handful of swoopers are rocking a belly band, but they use it so they can take their chest strap off after deploying and still stay in the rig (especially if they chow). It lets them lay nearly flat and arch as they fly for a distance run.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fcajump 153 #3 September 16, 2010 I'm spec'ing out a new rig to be ordered this fall. Expect I'll put one on after reading/listening to Booth all these years... JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #4 September 16, 2010 QuoteDoes anyone else here wear a belly band? Just don't go so retro that you mount a pilot chute on it... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NewGuy2005 51 #5 September 16, 2010 If I ever have one, I'm hanging a pistol holster on it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
captain1976 0 #6 September 16, 2010 QuoteQuoteDoes anyone else here wear a belly band? Just don't go so retro that you mount a pilot chute on it... Yeah, that wouldn't be a good idea. I used to have one years ago and had the pilot chute go in front of my arm on 2 occasions. Others I understand twisted their belly bands and caused further problems.You live more in the few minutes of skydiving than many people live in their lifetime Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #7 September 16, 2010 QuoteOthers I understand twisted their belly bands and caused further problems. Like pilot-chute-in-tow and death. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpwally 0 #8 September 16, 2010 ....and thats a shame, cuz from the b-band that would have been the easiest to find,grab,hook knife or whatever`..it was still in your view,,nowadays it totally out of sight and behind you... smile, be nice, enjoy life FB # - 1083 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #9 September 16, 2010 I can't remember how many folks we 'lost' from Belly band throw aways ... except ... it was too many. If I remember correctly John is about the only person around here anyway, that can see his primary (and secondary) deployment handle - which ought be a good safety selling point albeit un-Cool in this day and age. (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #10 September 16, 2010 Quote ....and thats a shame, cuz from the b-band that would have been the easiest to find,grab,hook knife or whatever`..it was still in your view,,nowadays it totally out of sight and behind you... Yep, doesn't make any sense at all..., but somehow that's where we are now! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #11 September 16, 2010 QuoteI can't remember how many folks we 'lost' from Belly band throw aways ... except ... it was too many. If I remember correctly John is about the only person around here anyway, that can see his primary (and secondary) deployment handle - which ought be a good safety selling point albeit un-Cool in this day and age. Yes, I still jump a ripcord. And I'm often asked why. That story is somewhat what this thread is about. I started jumping in 1978, in the days when belly-wart reserves were fading away and new "tandem" (piggyback) rigs were entering the mainstream. Along with that were throw-out pilot chutes. As I progressed in the sport with my Security Crossbow ripcord rig, I saw problems with those belly-band throw-out pilot chutes, and read many stories of fatalities due to complications from them. So, being an impressionable new jumper, when I scrounged up the money for my first modern rig, I decided that I didn't want to risk the belly-band, and I just stuck with the ripcord. Then, more than 1,500 jumps later when I had worn out that first modern rig, I was so familiar with the ripcord system, and it worked so well, that I have just stuck with it on every rig I've owned thereafter. There's just no need to re-train myself to a deployment method that I can't see, from one that already works perfect for me. After the belly-band, pilot chutes were moved to the leg strap. But there were problems with that too, because of the long length of exposed bridle that ran from the leg strap to the pin. So then they finally ended up behind us under the pack tray where we can't see them. It's contradictory in a day and age when emergency procedures are drilled into you to LOOK at your handles before a cutaway to make sure you're gripping the right thing, to use a main deployment handle for which you have to grope blindly. Doh! Anyway, not trying to re-ignite that debate - we've done it before. Just offering a perspective for this particular thread. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DeNReN 0 #12 September 16, 2010 I would wager that belly band mounted throw out pilot chutes never caused any deaths. Failure to don gear correctly and improper gear checks would have caused deaths related to pilot chute in tow malfunctions from twisted belly bands. Please correct me if I am wrong. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jimmytavino 16 #13 September 16, 2010 Not anymore....i came here to read a little, since it's a cloudy and chilly and rainy day, and i have all my chores done.i was led to this thread by it's title, and it recollected a day in my earlier years of jumping,,when i DID twist a belly band and i DID TOW a Pilot Chute!!.. and i DID roll the dice.... and i DID come up Lucky.....I had ordered a " piggy back rig" which was sized to hold my round reserve and my Round main... It was custom measured and custom colored, and included the whole package for , i think, 325 dollars!!!. It had a bellyband mounted pouch for the P C ..( which happened to be SQUARE )!! this was around '76 or '77... anyway... i twisted the bellyband when i geared up, and it went unnoticed,,, and i went on the skydive...At pull time,, I found the handle as usual, had a good PC extraction from the pouch, threw it well and Hard to my side... and right away.. i was head down AND feet down,, flexed at my hip, and starting to turn...First thought was that the bridle had snagged on the corner of the legstrap hardware, or on the buckle for the bellyband... I snatched at it, to clear it... and at the same time, took a look DOWN... well the pea gravel was right under me,, and it was about the SIZE that i was used to seeing,, when i was on Final, on an accuracy shot..!!Whoa!!... I thought ..... 'reserve'!!!, but i took a split second to get flat and stop turning.... At that moment i could feel the main D Bag hit me, in the back of my thighs.. i truly remember, thinking,,,"it's clear.. right above my shoulders,,, right NOW", and i blasted that blast handle.... Pow.. instant stop... my 26 foot navy reserve, which luckily didn't blow UP, was happily sitting there,, looking back at me, looking at it.... Now i'm noticing bridle, and crown lines, and suspension lines, all over the place,, and the main d bag, is bouncing around near my feet... all but 3 or 4 linestows had undone and so, the bag stayed closed.I got the bag up and stuffed it, between my legs and took up my reserve toggles... pretty sure, i P L F'ed the landing, and then, figured out just what had happened... That night a rigger pal, stitched a plastic stiffener into the webbing to reduce the chance of THAT sorta NONsense.... happening again..... It was purely a stupid and avoidable malfunction and i was sick and embarrassed, that i had let it occur. many friends who also had those containers, went with the re-fit as a precaution.... close call... and I felt then and feel now... that if i had just stayed head down feet down, and pulled that reserve, the chances of it running right into my dancing d bag, could have been much higher.... one quick wrap, or snag of the reserve PC , which was NOT a of " freebag" design,,, and MAN.... it coullda been.. "lights OUT, for jimmy"all my rigs, after THAT one,, did NOT have a B Band... as fortunately, gear improvements have been ongoing... I'd be REAL sure about donning any bellyband rig and real careful,,, regardless of the level of current "familiarity with the gear"... attached... jt with That rig, ( note the R3's ) and a Brand X jumpsuit.. and the "square pilot chute"... jmy nscr1817 4 stack 940 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #14 September 16, 2010 When he started building huge military free-fall rigs, Sandy Reid found that (sans extracteur) belly-bands helped prevent loose rigs from flopping around, so Sandy started sewing belly bands onto the larger Telesis 3 student rigs and heard fewer complaints from students. The key to comfort is installing belly-bands low enough (eg. level with hip rings or the top edge of pubic hair) so that they are too low to press on the abdomen hard enough to induce vomitting. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #15 September 16, 2010 QuoteI would wager that belly band mounted throw out pilot chutes never caused any deaths. Failure to don gear correctly and improper gear checks would have caused deaths related to pilot chute in tow malfunctions from twisted belly bands. That is a technically correct statement. But, there ARE some gear configurations that have proven more likely for skydivers to misuse. Therefore, it's not wise to use those configurations in a mass market. Just like anti-wind blast handles were okay as long as you pulled the handle out in-line with the cable housing. The problem was, many people didn't. Skydivers need gear that is as idiot-proof as possible, to be as safe as possible. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DeNReN 0 #16 September 16, 2010 Quote Quote I would wager that belly band mounted throw out pilot chutes never caused any deaths. Failure to don gear correctly and improper gear checks would have caused deaths related to pilot chute in tow malfunctions from twisted belly bands. That is a technically correct statement. But, there ARE some gear configurations that have proven more likely for skydivers to misuse. Therefore, it's not wise to use those configurations in a mass market. Just like anti-wind blast handles were okay as long as you pulled the handle out in-line with the cable housing. The problem was, many people didn't. Skydivers need gear that is as idiot-proof as possible, to be as safe as possible. Yes. Funny how collapsable pilot chutes are still mainstream though Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #17 September 16, 2010 Quote Quote But, there ARE some gear configurations that have proven more likely for skydivers to misuse. Therefore, it's not wise to use those configurations in a mass market. Just like anti-wind blast handles were okay as long as you pulled the handle out in-line with the cable housing. The problem was, many people didn't. Skydivers need gear that is as idiot-proof as possible, to be as safe as possible. Yes. Funny how collapsable pilot chutes are still mainstream though Yes, collapsible pilot chutes seem like accidents waiting to happen. I'm surprised that there aren't more pilot-chute-in-tow problems with them. That's one of those things that if you had suggested it 20 years ago, people would have said; "What, are you crazy!" But somehow, they gained traction and are now the norm. Go figure. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
azureriders 0 #18 September 17, 2010 This thread is a good read but I think more to the point of the O.P., we do have a jumper who wears a belly band, nothing to do with his P.C.The gentleman started skydiving late in life and has flexibility problems. Our student gear never seemed to be an issue. When he purchased his own, he said it was more comfortable but keep ridding up in free fall. This made his hacky hard to find and even resulted in one reserve ride. Having the harness resized only proved to be a slight improvement to the situation, however the installation of a belly band eliminated it totaly. His hacky is now always right where he left it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BoogeyMan 0 #19 September 18, 2010 Hi Mike...... I'm fabricating a belly band now. Bands do keep the lats in tight, and the bottom of the container from excess movement. I don't think belly bands are dangerous. Jumper inattention is very dangerous. Another poster sez, " there is nothing so dangerous as breaking a safety rule and getting away with it." So true. Take a look at the Cobra connector, instead of that old timey quick release. Hugh Essay Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #20 September 18, 2010 QuoteI'm fabricating a belly band now. Bands do keep the lats in tight, and the bottom of the container from excess movement. Why not just make adjustable laterals? The Racer offers those as an option. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anvilbrother 0 #21 September 18, 2010 I have a belly band on my rig. It's a military halo rig and that's how they come. I have adj laterals that make the rig fit well and do not care for the belly band. It does add some safety factor I guess( or hazard however you look at it) but I wish it was not there, but don't want to go through the hassle of trying to get it removed Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fcajump 153 #22 September 20, 2010 QuoteQuoteI'm fabricating a belly band now. Bands do keep the lats in tight, and the bottom of the container from excess movement. Why not just make adjustable laterals? The Racer offers those as an option. I've got adjustable lats, BUT that can either move the rig forward, OR pull the MLW back. With a belly band, I could keep the MLW where I want it to be, and then use the adjustable lats to snug up the rig without moving the MLW. For my next rig, I'll likely get both. JWAlways remember that some clouds are harder than others... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kkeenan 13 #23 September 20, 2010 QuoteIt's contradictory in a day and age when emergency procedures are drilled into you to LOOK at your handles before a cutaway to make sure you're gripping the right thing, to use a main deployment handle for which you have to grope blindly. Doh! Another case of trying to solve a "problem" that doesn't exist. Many, many people deploy these every day without "groping blindly" for them. Where are you looking when you apply the brakes on your car? If your rig fits properly, then the parts are right where they were when you put it on. Sure, the Cutaway and Reserve handles move after main deployment and need to be looked at for quick actuation, but PC handles and puds seem to work fine. The system has been simplified, eliminating problems. Why reverse progress and complicate it again? Kevin K._____________________________________ Dude, you are so awesome... Can I be on your ash jump ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
