cypres manufacturers sued

[Hvance 0]

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My biggest concern is that a frivolous lawsuit will put someone, who's only desire is to keep people in our sport safe, out of business.

Correct. And if Cypres is taken off the market because of lawsuits, then many more skydivers will die, by not having them.

Another question: What skydivers are going to step forward and testify against Cypres?

Vigil might send some people. I joke of course..

Expert witnesses are all likely to be users of an AAD. It will be interesting to see how the woman proceeds on that point.

I wish Google Maps had an "Avoid Ghetto" routing option.

[jakee 1,254]

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We are all quite aware that the PC, freebag, and reserve itself must all operate properly to effect a 'reserve deployment'.

Not to mention the reserve container itself (flaps, grommets etc.).

Shame the incident thread didn't disclose the details of Airtec's examination of the unit, but I guess that if they had an inkling that a lawsuit was on the way the were well advised to keep that data private.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Hellis 0]

When i read this thread i can only think, hope this never happens to me.
If i would go in because of something i did wrong i dont want my family to sue anyone (not that i think it will happen).
What can i (we) do to prevent it from happening?

Even if i would write it in my last will and testament it could still happen unless i make sure everyone that is not my will.
Create a website where those of us who want this sport to continue even if something happens to us can write our "will"?

Unless my brand new gear breaks apart on the first ever jump, i think its me that are at fault for not taking care of my equipment and know how to use it.

[skybytch 259]

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Unless my brand new gear breaks apart on the first ever jump, i think its me that are at fault for not taking care of my equipment and know how to use it.

Even if your brand new gear breaks apart on the first ever jump, it's on you.

[billvon 2,380]

>(T)he Expert Cypres 2 promises that it will act independently of any act by
> the skydiver to cut the cord of the reserve container closing loop (which is
>all that is required to deploy the reserve chute) at a height approximately
>750 feet above ground as long as the sky diver is falling at a rate of
>descent greater than 78 mph,

From the manual:

"The Cypres . . . should open a reserve canopy at an appropriate altitude whenever necessary.

However, the occurrence of a malfunction cannot be excluded. We accept no responsibility for damages and consequences resulting from a malfunction."

[billvon 2,380]

>What skydivers are going to step forward and testify against Cypres?

They're out there, sadly. Just above your post is a post hoping that the Cypres is banned by the APF. From posts I've read here, there are a number of people who would be willing to damage Airtec's case in hopes that 'their' AAD would look better in comparison.

[Hvance 0]

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Unless my brand new gear breaks apart on the first ever jump, i think its me that are at fault for not taking care of my equipment and know how to use it.

Even if your brand new gear breaks apart on the first ever jump, it's on you.

Eh, yes and no I think. If I install a brand new Cypres, and have a heart attack on my first jump with it, and it never fires, that's not good.

Yes, we are all aware it can happen. But that doesn't mean it's expected. Would it be worthy of a lawsuit? Nope. But that's an extreme example.

I wish Google Maps had an "Avoid Ghetto" routing option.

[Hellis 0]

Yes, you are right.
Ofcourse i have to make sure my gear is in good condition on the first jump also.

[NWFlyer 2]

This thread should serve as an important reminder of why we have to have these conversations with our loved ones well before anything bad happens to us. I'd venture to guess that no one posting here knows Ms. Lipps, yet everyone is expressing anger and disdain. Yet we have no idea what kind of conversations her daughter had with her prior to her death.

Grieving family members plus aggressive pursuit by lawyers looking for a case is a bad combination. It's incumbent on all of us who are involved in the sport to have the conversation, as many times as it takes, with the person or persons who are going to be making such decisions after our deaths. It might be your parents, spouse, children, siblings, etc. Whoever it is, make your wishes expressly known. Make the fact that you are fully accepting the risk known. Talk to them about how you manage risk, but never ever promise that "my AAD will save me, don't worry!" It's a lie. Your AAD may save you, but it may not. And there are a lot of other ways you can die in the sport that have nothing to do with a low/no pull.

I've had the conversation with my parents. I've sent them an "open if I die" envelope that they have put in their safe deposit box. It's reiterated in there (there's a lot of other information, too, but that's in there).

To do anything else is being irresponsible and setting your family up to be influenced by attorneys at their most vulnerable time.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[jaffo 0]

If any of ya'll has lost a child, then you know the pain is the worse you will ever feel. It's not natural to bury your child. Often the parents need someone to blame to get through the grief.

It's not right for her to sue, but I've been sued several times in 20+ years in the medical profession and it's always the result of grief.

I agree with NWFlyer about explaning the sport to your family. It's probably the answer. Explain that no one is at fault if you die. That you died doing something you love...

Take chances, just do it with all the information to make good decisions!!

Muff Brother# 2706 Dudeist Skydiver# 121.5

[bucketlistpilot 1]

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>What skydivers are going to step forward and testify against Cypres?

They're out there, sadly. Just above your post is a post hoping that the Cypres is banned by the APF. From posts I've read here, there are a number of people who would be willing to damage Airtec's case in hopes that 'their' AAD would look better in comparison.

I don't think that's what Koppel wants at all. Aussies (me included) are just a little frustrated that the APF made such a knee jerk reaction. Especially when rumours circulate that the person responsible for the decision has direct links to Airtec.

Ian Purvis
http://www.loadupsoftware.com
LoadUp DZ Management App
[email protected]

[Andy9o8 0]

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If any of ya'll has lost a child, then you know the pain is the worse you will ever feel. It's not natural to bury your child. Often the parents need someone to blame to get through the grief.

It's not right for her to sue, but I've been sued several times in 20+ years in the medical profession and it's always the result of grief.

I agree with NWFlyer about explaning the sport to your family. It's probably the answer. Explain that no one is at fault if you die. That you died doing something you love...

I'd wanted to post much the same thing, but bit my tongue until now because I try to avoid being a foil for all the frothing lawyer-bashing that goes on in "lawsuit" threads.

I disagree with the lawsuit, too, both as a jumper and as a lawyer. But as a parent myself, I will (now) say that some of the name-calling hurled in here at the grief-stricken mother is really callous and disgraceful. If she reads this thread - and I'll bet you her lawyer will - what does one suppose that will do to her resolve? What kind of ambassadorship for the sport does one suppose it conveys?

[jaffo 0]

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Explain that no one is at fault if you die. That you died doing something you love...

I thought about what I previously wrote. So I quoted myself.......ummm vodka,

The one thing I have an issue with is improperly maintained jump planes or improperly flown planes (outside wt and balance). I've been at 2 DZ's that had crashes. I've also had one die on take off and another I had to emergency exit @ 1500 ft due to fuel exhaustion back when I was a 100 jump wonder.

In my opinion, I pay for a ride to altitude in a properly maintained commercial plane. If it isn't maintained properly, they deserve what they get.

Before I get flamed, I'm talking about negligence, not honest mistakes or the fact that anything can happen to anything mechanical. For the record I am a pilot and have deadsticked an engine out into a cow pasture. The plane was properly maintained and the piston through the cowling @ 5500 ft was an act of God.
Ryder

Take chances, just do it with all the information to make good decisions!!

Muff Brother# 2706 Dudeist Skydiver# 121.5

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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On the legal side, a few thoughts...

She can only succeed under strict products liability if she can prove that there was a design/manufacturing defect in the AAD. If she can convince a court of this, she may be able to collect under SPL.

Or if the parties she is suing/their insurance carriers decide that its cheaper to settle than fight the lawsuit.

[Hvance 0]

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On the legal side, a few thoughts...

She can only succeed under strict products liability if she can prove that there was a design/manufacturing defect in the AAD. If she can convince a court of this, she may be able to collect under SPL.

Or if the parties she is suing/their insurance carriers decide that its cheaper to settle than fight the lawsuit.

True. By succeed, I meant in court.

I wish Google Maps had an "Avoid Ghetto" routing option.

[Unstable 8]

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Correct. And if Cypres is taken off the market because of lawsuits, then many more skydivers will die, by not having them.

Another question: What skydivers are going to step forward and testify against Cypres?

No Skydiver in the right mind would do that - It's sad to hear about this horrible incident, but I can't help but imagine in my mind a grieving mother being visited by Glorified Ambulance-Chasers looking to make a few bucks.

=========Shaun ==========

[RiggerLee 61]

What grounds do they have for nameing Square one in the suit? What sort of cost might square one be looking at even if they win? Is there any thing that they could do to reduice their liability in some thing like this? A release or waver signed allong with the sale?

And as to scum bag skydivers... there are plenty of sell outs. I hate to speek ill of the dead but remember Mark Slader and how he totaly whored him self out against Sun Path.

Lee

Lee
[email protected]
www.velocitysportswear.com

[koppel 3]

thanks bucketlistpilot, you are correct when you say that is not what I want. Sometimes the irony can be lost on a keyboard.

The fact is that whilst the APF say that they had little information from Aviacom in this matter to start with there was also little information for the restriction to be placed. There are arguments of Duty of Care to Students and Novices. This is in some areas a fair argument and in others can be shown to be less well thought out than it sounds.

I believe that people should use whichever AAD they feel comfortable with. I personally sell all 3 major brands but choose to jump an Argus. I believe in the ethos of both Airtec and Aviacom that a piece of equipment like this needs to be serviced at regular periods.

I guess it comes down to whether people agree with a knee jerk reaction by their governing body as a first step and worry about the look of it later or if they feel they should have solid information before making such decisions.

But no, I do not wish to see any of them off the market.

I like my canopy...


...it lets me down.

[Hvance 0]

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What grounds do they have for nameing Square one in the suit?
Lee

Strict products liability.

I wish Google Maps had an "Avoid Ghetto" routing option.

[ZigZagMarquis 8]

Jan,

The link you posted seems to be broken... at least to me it is... what did it say?

[ZigZagMarquis 8]

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... Jude Lipps says her 33-year-old daughter, Brooke Baum, of Newport Beach, fell to her death at Perris Valley Airport the day after Christmas last year when her main chute malfunctioned and the backup device, the Expert Cypres 2, failed to deploy the reserve parachute...

LR,

Help me out here if you would please... what's the nickle run-down on how it is a parent can sue over the loss of an adult child? A child that is still a minor, I can kind-of understand, and a spouse, I can understand, but I don't immedieatly get how it is a parent can sue over the loss of an already adult child? Obviously its possible... just trying to understand a little, thanks.



Does anyone know if the DZ, gear mfgr, pilot, etc. (i.e. Sue all in sight) are also being sued in this case, or were named, but dropped? Just currious.

[Hvance 0]

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... Jude Lipps says her 33-year-old daughter, Brooke Baum, of Newport Beach, fell to her death at Perris Valley Airport the day after Christmas last year when her main chute malfunctioned and the backup device, the Expert Cypres 2, failed to deploy the reserve parachute...

LR,

Help me out here if you would please... what's the nickle run-down on how it is a parent can sue over the loss of an adult child? A child that is still a minor, I can kind-of understand, and a spouse, I can understand, but I don't immedieatly get how it is a parent can sue over the loss of an already adult child? Obviously its possible... just trying to understand a little, thanks.



Does anyone know if the DZ, gear mfgr, pilot, etc. (i.e. Sue all in sight) are also being sued in this case, or were named, but dropped? Just currious.

Lawsuits can be initiated on behalf of a deceased person. (Their estate.) All wrongful death suits are examples of such.

As to who is named, I don't know. But the waivers we all sign include negligence and gross negligence. I don't know how the case law applies, but it will at the very least make suing the DZ, for example, more difficult.

The suit is directed toward those who handled the Cypres. I keep mentioning strict products liability, but perhaps I should explain it a bit. Even if there was no negligence, if a product is defective, either in design or manufacture, then the manufacturer/distributor/retailer/etc can all be sued.

I wish Google Maps had an "Avoid Ghetto" routing option.

[kkeenan 13]

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...if a product is defective, either in design or manufacture, then the manufacturer/distributor/retailer/etc can all be sued.

This whole lawsuit will probably become very technically complicated. If the download of the CYPRESS data shows that it DID activate at the proper altitude, then the focus of the delayed opening moves to the container, deployment system, reserve canopy, etc. The suit could end up involving several other equipment manufacturers and dealers.

Kevin K.

[Hvance 0]

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...if a product is defective, either in design or manufacture, then the manufacturer/distributor/retailer/etc can all be sued.

This whole lawsuit will probably become very technically complicated. If the download of the CYPRESS data shows that it DID activate at the proper altitude, then the focus of the delayed opening moves to the container, deployment system, reserve canopy, etc. The suit could end up involving several other equipment manufacturers and dealers.

Kevin K.

Correct. Airtec can name third-party defendants.

I wish Google Maps had an "Avoid Ghetto" routing option.

[MakeItHappen 15]

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Jan,

The link you posted seems to be broken... at least to me it is... what did it say?

It was the source of the quoted paragraph by the OP.

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