Mel Gibson's "Passion" film

[Skyrad 0]

Arabs can not be Anti Semetic by definition as they are a Semetic race. Just being pedantic.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[chuteless 1]

I dont think that precludes them from have what is referred to as "anti-semetic " behaviour towards the Jews.


Bill Cole

[sweetjava77 0]

Bill,
I understand your feelings about the film being too violent. It was very violent. But its nice to finally see a movie that portrays the crucifixion more like it probably was. I took my good friend to see it and she asked me questions all the way home. Its a good witnessing tool to friends who you may not be able to reach any other way-if they have the stomach for it.

The violence helps show how the ultimate sacrifice was paid. Also, it was good he included other things, like the temple and curtain over the holy of holies being torn. Other imagery was also good; such as when Jesus crushed the snake's head under his foot, the blood splattering on the soldier who stabbed him, and the depiction of Silas helping Jesus carry the cross. All things to inspire questions from non-believers.

I thought it was a great movie and it took a lot of balls from Gibson to do something like this.

[wzettler 0]

*bump

I didn't want to be cited by the RPs so instead of starting a new thread I thought I would give my opinion on the movie (for those who want to read on) since I saw it this weekend. I don't want to restart the debate on if God exists or not, just what I thought of the movie...

I thought the movie was pretty well done. Brutally violent doesn't even begin to describe how violent it was. Some parts were hard to look at and I found myself wanting it to stop. But this is one of the reasons why I thought the movie was well done. I was uncomfortable with the violence, but thats the way it was in that period in history. I thought that seeing that amount of violence would/will deter anyone from ever wanting to be violent again.

IMO many Christians have a picture in their minds of the cross they see in church. Where Jesus is crucified and he looks peaceful and he's clean and "nice and sunshiny" (if you get my meaning). This movie IMO showed a more realistic view of how it might have looked and how horrible a way to die it was, bloody and tortured. This amount of violence IMO also gave gravity to how hard this was for him to go through and that this was an ultimate sacrafice.

Finally I wanted to comment on the anti-semetic thing. To me, it wasn't important that the Jews in the movie were/were not responsible for Jesus's death and I didn't feel the anti-semitism (although I'm not Jewish). He was on this earth to die for people's sins; it had to happen somehow. That was the point. Jesus gave his life, no one was responsible really IMO.

I think that the anit-semetic thing goes back to a sad fact of Christian history - that the Jews were(/maybe still are? I don't know enough on this) persecuted by Christians and have been Christianity's "whiping boy" for a long time. I thought the movie was FAR more anti-Roman than anti-semetic (which again, didn't really enter my mind while watching or afterward). I think blaming the Jews is ridiculous and I don't see a need/reason to blame anyone. Are the people blaming the Jews wishing that Jesus hadn't died for our sins? I would think then that no one would be saved. Maybe they should be thanked? I guess the problem is that there isn't a Roman country now to blame for those that still are looking to blame someone. All I know it it had to happen somehow...

Anyway, thats what I have to say. Its just my opinion and you can agree or disagree as you like...
I would recommend the movie though, especially for Christians...

I think when Jesus said "love your enemy" he probably meant don't kill them.

[sdctlc 0]

Did ya vote on the movie??

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=952638;#952638

I have been suprised that it is such an overwhelming "Love" of the movie by the votes. I thought it would be more of a "Liked it" response. I did not come out of it saying "WOW, I loved that movie!!"

Scott C.

"He who Hesitates Shall Inherit the Earth!"

[jraf 0]

Well if you really look at it:

Jesus was a Jew

Marry was Jewish too

Joseph was a Jewish carpenter

Paul was a Jewish tax collector

and so on...they all where Jews, what did you expect? And they were a small religious sect...kind of like our Branch Dividians, we burned these by the way.

Now here comes a dude called Jesus and tell you that poverty is a virtue and that he is God's son and that only his Father is the true Lord and all you believe in if false.

Pretty ridiculous right?

Then you have the same Jesus who claims to be King of the Jews while the Roman Emperor is keeping Pax Romana and the trade is good?

So what happens? The Romans sentence him to death as a rebel against the Empire and the Jews renounce him as a leader of a religious sect.

Same thing, presumably without all the gore would happen today. Instead of the crucifiction he would get 25 to life.

jraf

Me Jungleman! Me have large Babalui.
Muff #3275

[airtwardo 6]

I heard that the biggest Jewish
complaint heard while leaving
the theater was...

"What...5.50 for POPCORN!?"

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[crzjp20 0]

im posting with out reading this entire thing so forgive me if it has been said before but: if you go into this movie looking for antisemitism your going to find it. If you go in looking for the true love and passion of christ then your going to find it.

It is all in how you plan to look at the movie. I heard so many complaints from people on campuss about how antisemetic it was, wehn i asked them if they had even seen it yet they said no, going see it tonight. .... is it me or am i missign something here....

one last thing. I am an open and professed christian, and can i tell you that i have alot of firends that are jewish. And i love them. They are fantastic people who have hearts as big as texas.

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Fear is not a confession of weakness, it is an oportunity for courage.

[WrongWay 0]

Okay, I just saw this movie on Sunday, and all I can say is and then . I'm not a religious person, so I really can't comment on that end of it, but I will tell you this: It's based around history, not Anti-Semeticsm. (I can't spell. Anyway, I thought it was very interesting, as I assumed it would be, simply because.......

1. It was all in Aramaic, and that alone had to be a task. Reviving a dead language for the sole purpose of a movie? Not only ballsy, but brilliant.
2. It was realistic for a change. Personally I was sick and tired of seeing these "pretty boy" Jesus images portrayed in every other religious movie. Everybody else was in rags and he's all clean and pretty. Bullshit. Good job, Mel.

3. They pulled no punches. Imagine being there, standing in front of the man as they whipped him and beat him, nailed him to the cross and left him hanging. Now take that image, multiply it by ten, and then cover it from every angle, and THAT'S what this movie was. I've never seen a man's ribs from having the skin ripped off around them, and while I wouldn't care to again, it was interesting to see that MG had the guts to show it, no pun intended.

But in my opinion, the most amazing part of the movie was not in the movie itself. When leaving the theatre, there was no applause, no talking, no joking or laughing, no sobbing, and no praying. It was nothing but a thundering silence, a somber tone produced by the movie's ending. I personally have NEVER experienced that before, and I probably won't for a very, very long time. The movie had a very strong effect on me, and I'm a very harsh skeptic. I can only imagine the emotion a true Christian would have felt after this film. When I left the theatre I felt cold and empty. The emotional burden of Christians apparently spilled on to me for those brief moments until we reached the daylight waiting outside. For once, it was an experience to feel something from such a film.

Bravo to Mr. Gibson, though I usually do not favor religious topics, let alone movies, this is a masterpiece.

Wrong Way
D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451
The wiser wolf prevails.

[airdweller 0]

> History dictates that the Bible was written by men who walked and talked with Jesus himself <

um not so. In fact I think we can all agree that the old testament was written before Jesus was born. If I'm not mistaken, the old testament is part of the Bible.

> I am convinced there is only one God and one truth.<

However that one God and one truth can and in my belief does manifest itself in many different ways.

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"From the mightiest pharaoh to the lowliest peasant,
who doesn't enjoy a good sit?" C. Montgomery Burns

[pajarito 0]

You're sharpshooting him. You know he's referring to the Gospels of the New Testament.

[Zenister 0]

still he's right.."history" claims no such thing.

christian literature does. Not the same thing, no matter how much christians wish you to believe so.

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[pajarito 0]

All depends on what's considered to be history.

[ltdiver 3]

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Jesus gave his life, no one was responsible really IMO.

We are -all- responsible, for we have all sinned and fall short of the glory of God.

I know I have.

ltdiver

Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon

[Zenister 0]

i am not. i am and have always been part and parcel of God's glory...no 'blood sacrifice' necessary.


i may not always be at my best, or as good as i should be, but i have not sinned and i am not damned so long as i walk my path honestly without intention.

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[ltdiver 3]

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i am and have always been part and parcel of God's glory...no 'blood sacrifice' necessary.

It was His blood that was shed -for- us, to pardon us. If there was no sin, He would not have had to come.

No, our blood is not spilt. His was. For us.

ltdiver

Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon

[Zenister 0]

for you perhaps, if you chose to believe it..

sin is your concept, as is the guilt and blood associated with it, and you can keep it, I and all the other non-christians in the world have no need for it, and its rather insulting to imply we do, so please stop trying to smear it on us...

i dont question your level of satori, or beat you over the head about being tied to the wheel of karma. We didn’t have anything to do with the death of your carpenter, and it would be nice if you would stop accusing us of complicity in some cosmic conspiracy

feel free to believe whatever you wish, just don’t assume it matters to me or God at all.. because really it doesn’t, and it doesn’t do much to help endear any consideration, or tolerance for your beliefs when you continually adopt such an arrogant position.

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[JackC 0]

For your enhanced viewing pleasure, we urge you to pay attention to the end credits.

[VivaHeadDown 0]

Wow, Zenny, careful with words like, "arrogant". You yourself seem a little TOO sure of your own beliefs. It's the old "how do you know you're not wrong" thing.

But, for the record, you are wrong. How do I know? I'm better than you. That's what every non-Christian expects to hear from a Christian, so I figured I'd throw it out there. Even though the truth is I don't think there is any difference between us, we're just wrong about different things.

Don't Confuse Me With My Own Words

[pajarito 0]

Sin is most definitely NOT his concept. You’re right concerning the rest. As far as Christian evangelism goes, there is a limit. The truth has been made known to you. Whether you choose to accept or reject it now is on you.

It is the responsibility of every Christian to spread the truth to nonbelievers. No person, however, can force a change in someone’s heart. God is the only being that can do that and that is something that must happen first. If God chooses to make himself known to you, you will not be able to resist. If he doesn’t, you won’t.

To continue declaring the truth to someone who has long proven himself to respond with nonsense is a waste of time.

[ChasingBlueSky 0]

Quote

But in my opinion, the most amazing part of the movie was not in the movie itself. When leaving the theatre, there was no applause, no talking, no joking or laughing, no sobbing, and no praying. It was nothing but a thundering silence, a somber tone produced by the movie's ending. I personally have NEVER experienced that before, and I probably won't for a very, very long time.

Guess you never saw Schindler's List on the big screen? Stunned silence when the credits rolled - everyone got up and left, no talking.

My roommate told me this when he saw Shindler's List - the movie broke somewhere towards the end of the 2nd act and the screen went white - no one yelled, complained or got up to move...the entire theatre just sat there and waited.

_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....

[WrongWay 0]

Quote

Quote

But in my opinion, the most amazing part of the movie was not in the movie itself. When leaving the theatre, there was no applause, no talking, no joking or laughing, no sobbing, and no praying. It was nothing but a thundering silence, a somber tone produced by the movie's ending. I personally have NEVER experienced that before, and I probably won't for a very, very long time.

Guess you never saw Schindler's List on the big screen? Stunned silence when the credits rolled - everyone got up and left, no talking.

My roommate told me this when he saw Shindler's List - the movie broke somewhere towards the end of the 2nd act and the screen went white - no one yelled, complained or got up to move...the entire theatre just sat there and waited.

That's AWESOME. Nah I didn't see it on the big screen, I wasn't old enough at the time...

Wrong Way
D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451
The wiser wolf prevails.

[Zenister 0]

if you chose to think so, but you wont find a single post here (or anywhere else) stating that christians are tied to the wheel and destined to spend their next life reincarnated as swine (or any other animal) because they refuse to take responsibility for their own karma.

that would be arrogant.

very simply your belief has no bearing on the disposition of my soul, and mine in no way affects yours, but that never stops any christian from making the same broad statement such as

Quote

We are -all- responsible, for we have all sinned and fall short of the glory of God.

nope sorry, just the christians and those who decide to adopt your faith

and

Quote

It was His blood that was shed -for- us, to pardon us. If there was no sin, He would not have had to come.

No, our blood is not spilt. His was. For us

again for you, the christians. the rest of us dont need it, never have and never will, we have our own path to walk, and while different it is just as valid to God. Of course very few christians I’ve met are willing to accept that because their divisive dogma says ‘this way and no other!!!” [I]would be lovely if you’d at least attempt to separate the word of man from those of God in your book, but I guess the time revelation, enlightenment (and editing) is over for the christians …[/I]

and

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If you think this is fire and brimstone, you aint seen nothing yet.

I dont think you'll have to wait too long. This old world is on its last legs.

uh yeah..ok sorry i dont need 'the boogie man' to scare me into become a better person...

and

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As usual, Zenister, you are totally wrong.....Believe, in whatever you wish, and suffer the consequences

nioce...so much love

although the last part is reasonably accurate, its just the consequences for me (and other non-christians) are not what you think they are, while you pat yourselves on the back for your faith

just a few examples from the last 3 pages..i really dont think its necessary to dig thru this whole thread (and the multiple others) to find numerous and continual examples of christian arrogance where everyone is accused of killing off your savior, as a necessary sacrifice for a hypothetical 'sin' by a common ancestor.

and christians wonder why they encounter such resistance and persecution?? stop doing it to others in your proselytizing and rhetoric and you'd pretty much be left alone..and its really rather simple, all it requires one slight change in the way you talk to others about your belief. well that and skipping all the threats to scare me into conversion...

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We are -all- I am responsible, for we I have all sinned and fall short of the glory of God

no argument and no inherent accusation of guilt against everyone else who does not share your faith or belief.

how do i know i'm not wrong? very simple

faith.

faith is the key to everything...

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[Zenister 0]

Quote

Sin is most definitely NOT his concept. You’re right concerning the rest. As far as Christian evangelism goes, there is a limit. The truth has been made known to you. Whether you choose to accept or reject it now is on you.

It is the responsibility of every Christian to spread the truth to nonbelievers. No person, however, can force a change in someone’s heart. God is the only being that can do that and that is something that must happen first. If God chooses to make himself known to you, you will not be able to resist. If he doesn’t, you won’t.

To continue declaring the truth to someone who has long proven himself to respond with nonsense is a waste of time.

thanks for making my point again....

your truth.

God has already given me hers.

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[Blahr 0]

This is a great place for me to sneak in an extra post to increase my numbers where it might not be noticed.

In a big, stupid thread like this!!!!