Madrid terrorist attack

[CanuckInUSA 0]

My heart and prayers (I'm not even religious) goes out to you and your countrymen today. What a horrible day for the Spanish people. I can only say that I am happy that a fellow DZ.COMer slept in and didn't become a victim.

Dang ... humans can be nasty creatures with little to no respect for life.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[Kennedy 0]

Hey, don't go pinning that crap on me. How about you check who you're quoting before you send it off.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[billvon 2,380]

>Luckily i wasn´t in the train station at that time because i fell asleep.
>I usually get that train every morning at that time (7:45).

Yep. I was in Boston visiting Amy a few years back. We were late getting to the airport and I barely made the plane. We sat on the ground for almost two hours waiting for a departure slot. At first the pilot kept reassuring us, then he switched to "if we can't take off we can get you all on the first flight tomorrow." We finally took off.

The first flight out the next morning would have been American Airlines flight 11, on the morning of September 11, 2001.

[Gawain 0]

Terrible news, my thoughts to any and all touched by this attack.

I hope those responsible are caught and made quite uncomfortable before they're tried, convicted and...there's no capital punishment in Spain. Either way, swift justice.

Assigning blame to ETA so soon seems hasty to me too. Based on the summary from the Council on Foreign Relations, this seems a little bit outside their MO. Just conjecture on my part.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[skreamer 1]

The point of the quote was to show that the thread had already been hijacked quite a few posts previously, which is why I quoted it in my reply to you.

I was not trying to 'pin any crap' on you, my apologies if this was the impression you got.

[CanuckInUSA 0]

Having met Skreamer and knowing that he is a good person, I think the only reason why he attached that quote to your message was because you mentioned something about hijacking this thread. I thought the originator of that quote was out of line (what does the separatist movements in Spain which has been going on for years have to do with American politics). But sometimes people don't look at the big picture of what is said and who said it here on "DZ.COM". So please don't think Skreamer was insinuating that you said it.

Oops ... he beat me to the punch.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[Kennedy 0]

It's all good, I just don't like it when I get wrongly accused of being out of line (even by mistaken implication).

I get out of line plenty on my own.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[BikerBabe 0]

I agree about the hastiness of blame. This is far from their normal MO. They usually target Spanish politicians or other figures who have spoken openly against Basque independence. They've been losing support for years, and I find it hard to believe they could pull off something like this alone. Their attacks are usually more "surgical".

Anything is possible, though.

Please, please, please, I beg you, do not judge the entire Basque people on the action fo the ETA. The vast majority of Basques do not support them or their measures.

This saddens me, because I found of all the places I traveled in Spain, the Basques were the friendliest, most open people as a group that I came across. Their language and culture is fascinating, and San Sebastian is one of the most beautiful cities in Europe. Their cuisine is absolutely amazing, as well. I know the entire people will be judged by many for this action, and it saddens me.

Here's a link for those who might be interested in learning more about the Basque poeple, history, and language. It's really thorough!

http://www.buber.net/Basque/

Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!

[falxori 0]

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Yep. I was in Boston visiting Amy a few years back. We were late getting to the airport and I barely made the plane. We sat on the ground for almost two hours waiting for a departure slot. At first the pilot kept reassuring us, then he switched to "if we can't take off we can get you all on the first flight tomorrow." We finally took off.

The first flight out the next morning would have been American Airlines flight 11, on the morning of September 11, 2001.

i have several stories like that.
sadly, almost all of us here in israel have been, should have been or could have been where terror struck...

O

"Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

[PhillyKev 0]

Al Queda has claimed responsibility.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=578&e=1&u=/nm/20040311/ts_nm/security_spain_qaeda_dc

[BikerBabe 0]

My powers of prognostication are UNBELIEVABLE!!!!!



Figures. Reminds me of the initial knee-jerk blame-placing after the Oklahoma City bombing.

Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!

[Gawain 0]

I don't know if this has been mentioned, but with Al Qaeda's "claim" of responsibility, does anyone know about any significance of today's date? (3/11, or in Euro fashion 11/3) ??

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[chuckbrown 0]

The Wall Street Journal's on-line edition pretty much reached the same conclusions before this letter. Namely that the bombings did not fit the profile of the ETA, but did fit the profile of an AQ attack. (Wish I could go clicky) Since Spain is a major partner with the US in fighting terrorism, it makes sense that the country was targeted. Fucking animals. No, sorry, I don't want to insult the animals. Assholes.

[wmw999 2,116]

Let's not forget that several hundred years ago Spain kicked out the Moors and had a little Inquisition. That, too, could enter into what passes for thinking among such folks.

Terrorists with such a global viewpoint and field of operations are scary. I hope that Al Qaeda becomes a very high priority again.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[Casurf1978 0]

Interesting that you bring this up. A while ago I read in the WSJ that AQ has moved from an active hands on participant in terrorism, e.g., 9-11, USS Cole, to more of a "consultant" to other smaller groups world wide.

[Tonto 1]

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Most of what I've researched so far highlights ETA's Marxist ideology. Very few references to Christianity.

Well, they're Catholics. You can research that if you want. So are the IRA, so it's not like it's a new concept.

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[Gravitymaster 0]

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Most of what I've researched so far highlights ETA's Marxist ideology. Very few references to Christianity.

Well, they're Catholics. You can research that if you want. So are the IRA, so it's not like it's a new concept.

t

You stated they were "Christian Terrorists" which indicates you believe religious philosophy had something to do with their motivations.

If your contention is now that they are Terrorists who are also Christian, then why bother making the statement the way you did?

[SkydiverRick 0]

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Most of what I've researched so far highlights ETA's Marxist ideology. Very few references to Christianity.

Well, they're Catholics. You can research that if you want. So are the IRA, so it's not like it's a new concept.

t

I can't see where religion is a factor. They are fighting for land.

never pull low......unless you are

[damion75 0]

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A workmate was not that lucky though. She died this morning. She was pregnant.

Commiserations for your loss. Those of us in UK who have lived through the last 30 years of IRA attrocities know how you feel.

I sympathise.

F.

***************

Not one shred of evidence supports the theory that life is serious - look at the platypus.

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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I find lumping any terrorist organizations in with religion to be real hard to swallow. How can anyone combine committing cowardly acts of mass murder in God's name.....

But I don't see as how the ETA is religious based, it appears they are politically motivated. Is speration from Spainish/French nation their only agenda?

Are you kidding? Religion is so based on fear it's not even funny.

This is just another case of people being inhuman to other people. This shithole of a planet is filled with such examples. Everyone wants something. Some want more than is reasonable, or more than they are entitled to. Some steal it. Some bomb for it. Etc.

The way I see it, (and in fact the way MANY see it) religion is good for nearly nothing except mollification of fearful minds, and control over the weak-minded -- and it is responsible for more pain, suffering, hatred, war, terror and death than any plague ever has been, or any government or any war. All of this in the name of God? Which God? Which God condones this?!
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-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[nacmacfeegle 0]

"Are there still elements trying to exterminate their culture? Now since 1960 things have changed so much that murder is acceptable? "

The Basques have been campaigning for independence for a long time, there will always be an element of society that resists federal rule. Hell us Scots have been resisting London rule for around 600 years (for various reasons including religious ones) and have finally achieved an element of autonomy via political means.

Don't get me wrong JJ, I abhor violence of any type for whatever end. I'm not sure if your forefathers would have been classified as terrorists, illegal combatants (armed civilians) maybe, but that was a different era, with different technologies and 'rules of engagement' deployed. In those days it wasn't unusal for occupying forces to conduct what could only be described as war crimes by todays standards, the attrocities committed by the Duke of Cumberland after Culloden in 1745 for example. There are doubtless numerous examples of redcoat atrocites on your side of the pond as well.

"I think it is possible to be a rebel or revolutionary without being a thug."
Absolutely agree, and I also don't see the sense, or even any strategic value in this monstrosity. If anything this action can only damage the political goals of the Basque separatists. Their paramilitary organisation has been pretty well decimated by both the French and Spanish authorities recently. Either this is not ETA or its some new bloods out to prove themselves. Already there is talk of Al Quaeda involvement, but I don't want to jump to any conclusions yet.

What we may be seeing is global terrorist 'organisation' in response to a global clampdown on terrorism.

--------------------

He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

[PhillyKev 0]

More circumstantial evidence pointing at Al Qaeda.

Attacks were on 3/11, exactly 2.5 years since 9/11.......and exactly 911 days.

[Michele 1]

ETA reiterated today that it was not them...

I suspect it's either AQ, or an affiliated group (ala Jemaah Islamiyah). Notwithstanding that AQ took credit, it's the sort of thing they have been suspected of planning (London and NYC)(and wasn't there an attack like that in Russia [Moscow??]), and this may be a trial run (looking at their history, they do tend to do that kind of thing...although there was no trial for 9/11 that I know of).

Further, note the tapes and "warnings" that had been recently put out - within the last 45 days, IIRC, that indicated another attack was coming. Recently, they have developed a pattern of announcing, and then carrying out, attacks.

Additionally, the Spanish have been an allied force with us, and AQ stated that anyone supporting the US is fair game.

Seems like AQ to me, even without their taking credit for the attack. Too many precursor activities for it.

As for the significance of March 11 or 11 March, I am not sure. I've checked several exhaustive sites which list terrorist attacks, holy days, and the like, and have not found any sort of "link". There are still some I'd like to look at before I make a decision for myself about the date, but I don't think there's anything to it. I reserve the right to change my mind, though, should I find anything else out.

Again, condolences to all affected by this terrorist attack, from where ever it came.

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[Botellines 0]

thanks to all of you for your support, it is very much apreciate it.
At this points we don´t know for sure wether it was ETA or Al Quaeda. The Al quaeda option is taking more credibility as days passes.
At first everybody thought it was ETA because we have had to put up with their shit for 30 years, and they were caught red handed with 500Kg of explosives a month ago, and over x-mas they tried to blow up Chamartin train station.
However, Al quaeda have reason to want to do it as well. Of course sick and twisted reasons. We will know it for sure this week when our fucking government decides to release all the info. Tomorrow we have general elections, and the result will be greatly influentiacted for whoever did the bombing.
If ETA was responsible, the actual governbment will be reelected, for they are the hardest against terrorism.
If al quaeda was responsible the actual government may not be reelected because he helped the US in the war with Irak against the will of the citizens.
So once the election is over we will know all the facts.
Personally, i am starting to think it was Al Quaeda.
I will keep you informed.

[Faber 0]

from Kenedy

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feel free to support you claims while to hijack this into US bashing.

in reply to freeflynick

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But I'm pretty sure that in the US "war on global terrorism" the IRA and ETA aren't even on the list of targeted terrorist groups, even though they are 2 of the most active groups in the world. Why not, you ask? Could it be because the IRA get a vast amount of their funding from the USA?? The US government give money to Sinn Fein, the political wing of the IRA, for their election campaigns. If that isn't directly funding terrorism, I dont know what is! Some serious double standards going on there.......

Kennedy dont you agree that if we wants to STOP terro we must stop thouse who supports terroists?if not then US are fighting a war for the war it self...

IT IS TIME to look at our self.. who does USA,Denmark,UK and so on support by mony and weappons? and why do we so?Are they used the way we want them to or are they pointed against us?

Facts are that most terroists have an vestern education,and use vestern weappons to do their stuff...

If that aint double standard and stupidety then i dont know....

About the main post.
Im sorry to see that this war has taken another step in the wrong direction
I feel for all that has been touched by this incident.
im HAPPY to see the people of Spain is a STRONG people that fast tryes to help the victems by blod and so on.i know you will carry on,and NOT let terroists get their goal..

Peace,nothing else is fun,when does the world learn....

Stay safe
Stefan Faber