If you were buying....

[bodie1kanobie 0]

Ok.... so I have been out of the sport for a bit. I am looking to get current again and of course get new gear. I previously owned a Triathlon 175. It was a good canopy but I want something with a little better opening and flair characteristics. I have read alot of the reviews about the Saber2 (the canopy I was leaning toward) but am concerned about the openings. I like the sound of the Fusion, but with only four reviews it is hard to pull the trigger. I figure I can demo, and would like to narrow my optoins down to two or three. I want an intermediate canopy with predictable opening and great flight characteristics with the flair of the saber2. Is there a canopy out there that you get all of this in one? Or is it a case of sacrafice one aspect to gain another?

[Sangi 0]

Safire2, different flare though..

"Dream as you'll live forever, live as you'll die today." James Dean

[dragon2 0]

Fusion (most HP canopy of this bunch), Safire 2, Pilot or Pulse (least HP of this bunch) should all suit you just fine as all are intermediate canopies with great openings and good flare.

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[bodie1kanobie 0]

Thanks guys, I knew at least one I had not looked at would come up. I have checked into all of these except the Safire2. I read the reviews and almost all seem good. So now it is down to two. Safire or the Fusion. I would love to hear from some one who has flown the Fusion and get thier 2 cents. Over 20 reviews on the Safire, but not many for the Fusion. Again thanks for the replies!

[AggieDave 6]

Do you want a 9 cell or would you stay with a 7 cell? Also, have you considered contacting the manufactures for demo canopies? The major manufactures will be happy to provide you with a demo to help you make your decision.

If you want to stay with a 7-cell but want great openings and a strong flare, then I would recommend you take a hard look at the Storm.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[bodie1kanobie 0]

Thanks for the reply Dave. I think I am going to go with a 9 cell this time around. I know I can demo, but do not want to spend a bunch on demos.... in an ideal world (financialy) I would demo every canopy and copare that way, but as I remember from when I bought my f**st rig it was around $30 to demo one for two weeks. Now I know that is not expensive, but if we just took the canopies that have been mentioned so far that would be at least $150.... that's eight jumps I would rather have under my belt. I am going to demo my top two choices, I just dont want to have too big of a pool of candidates.

[AggieDave 6]

Lets say that you spend $200 on demoing canopies to find the canopy that fits you and your skydiving the best. Then you spend $1500-2000 on a new canopy. Is the fraction spent worth the outlay to get what you'll be happy with for more than a handful of jumps?

Personally I've been a big Sabre2 fan since I first jumped one 8 years ago. Having jumped the Pilot and the Safire2 I found it to be the better of the group. Others have found another canopy that fit them better. Also, a popular canopy choice like the Sabre2 or the Pilot leaves you with a little better chance at reselling your canopy when you decide to move on. At least that has been my experience thus far.

So why don't you narrow down your possible selection to a couple of canopies and demo those canopies? Then you can find just what you want and what makes you happy. Less of a gamble than $2000!

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[bodie1kanobie 0]

Honestly Dave I have to say that I agree with you 100%. I will be demoing them prior to purchase... and maybe I should try more than I couple. I just have always felt that the less money you spend on other things the more you have to jump. But Ican not argue with your logic on overall savings or resell. Resell was why I bought my Tri. I knew I could always sell it without much hassel... and did.

Let me ask you about your Saber.... what are you loading at? I read somewhere that you really needed to load at 1.3 or better to get predictable openings, and the reviews/forums seem to confirm that. people loading at that or better seem to have less opening problems than those loading closer to their exit whieghts. I think I said that the Saber was what I looked at first and just figured I would get one... then I read the reviews (bom...bom ...bom (insert dramatic music here) and that got me started on this forum shopping and information quest. I have considered the Pilot, but I was never happy with the flair on the Tri and it seems that the pilot may have the same weak Flair. I could be wrong... I dont know, it just seems to be the reoccuring con. I am sure with the tappered shape it will fly with a bit more weeee factor than my Tri did. unfortunatly I am just not sold on it. The Saber2 however could be still up at the top of my list if the WL makes a difference in openings (headding, end cells.. ect.)

[AggieDave 6]

I've jumped Sabre2s from 230 to 150 loaded from 1.2 to 1.9 (I was lighter back then and heavier with the smaller sizes). They opened well, although they were more sensitive to good symmetrical packing and good body position during deployment than some other canopies out there. However, I've never jumped one loaded under 1.0, but others whose opinions I trust have and also give good reviews. The flare stroke is very strong towards the bottom end and leaves some room for minor mistakes.

With that in mind, I do ask that you demo canopies from other manufactures to make an honest comparison.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[bodie1kanobie 0]

So would you say that the Saber is less finicky (sp?) at the higher wing loading? From what I have seen in the reviews packing was only an issue for a few people, many had issues whether they rolled the nose or left it hanging or used different slider quartering techniques and other things were mentioned.... these changes only made a difference for a few people. What I did see was those who loaded the wing at 1.3 or higher (which I would) had less issues. So what was your experience.... did higher WL= better openings with less "seekeing"?

As for demoing other... without a doubt. I will be demoing the Saber2, Fusion, and now the Safire2. Thanks for all of your imput it is very much apreciated.

[AggieDave 6]

Less finicky at a higher wingloading isn't exactly how I would describe it. A canopy will be quicker to respond to inputs at higher wingloadings; however, typically persons who are jumping those wingloadings have the experience to handle it. So when more experienced people jump the canopy at a typically higher wingloading, that jumper will say that it wasn't too finicky. Those same jumpers are usually better packers, having had more experience at packing.

The point is that reviews along those lines with some absolutes stated have to be distilled down to the underlying cause.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[bodie1kanobie 0]

I am talking about specific complaints by numerous posters. I know the flight characterisics are good and the flair is epic... that is the reason it was my first choice. But I am concerned about the opening characteristics spcifically...off heading, diving, closed end cells (not a big issue), line severe line twist, hard openings. If you were loading at 1.2 and higher you may not have experienced these issues. However too many people (novice to highly experienced) for me to ignore. Of the 70 reviews of the Saber2, more than half say the openings can be an issue. If it were one or two i could over look it and say user error... and I would have ordered one yesterday. I guess I will just have to demo one and see how she spreads her wings for me. Thanks again for the advice.

[bucketlistpilot 1]

WARNING - NEWBIE COMMENTS

65 jumps now on Sabre2 210, WL 1.15
Have had no line twists, hard openings, or dives. Have had maybe 3 45deg off heading openings. End cells are almost always closed until a pull on rear risers. ymmv

Ian Purvis
http://www.loadupsoftware.com
LoadUp DZ Management App
[email protected]

[dragon2 0]

I own a Fusion 120, got a few hundred jumps on mine. Very predictible canopy, predictable -nice- openings, very good flare. It's got HMA lines that last a long time (~1000 jumps) and HMA lines will not go out of trim like microlines, so that's part of what makes it so predictable. Anyway I love mine

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[Psychonaut 0]

SABRE

Stay high pull low

[dragon2 0]

Quote

SABRE

I know how to spell that, thanx

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[Psychonaut 0]

Really? You think I would correct you when you clearly have spelled it correctly? Check some of the other posts.

Stay high pull low

[dragon2 0]

Quote

Really? You think I would correct you when you clearly have spelled it correctly? Check some of the other posts.

You replied to ME, hence you implied I spelled it wrong

Spelling stuff wrong is a pet peeve of mine, but being careless enough to reply to the wrong post is also up there

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[Sangi 0]

lol americans complaining about spelling..

"Dream as you'll live forever, live as you'll die today." James Dean

[bodie1kanobie 0]

Quote

SABRE

Wow I can not believe I have never noticed that.... the company spelled it wrong.... lmao

[JohnDeere 0]

I have jumped sabre 2's from about a .8 wl up close to 1.5....i dont have any problems with the openings. Never did as a student either, they have gotten better since i started leaving the nose alone (dont push it in). My home DZ has all Sabre 2's as student canopys So the openings are not that bad

Nothing opens like a Deere!

You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers!

[ataltitude 0]

The Safire 2 has very good openings, flare's are nice and strong. Packing them is a breeze.
You also may find when you demo mains and buy that main from that dealer, they will take the demo price off.

[Cueb 0]

Have never had a chance to demo a safire, but sabre2 flies really nice and the flare is awesome. I have had two and will likely buy one for the next downsize too. I have no complaints of the openings. It may turn sometimes if you'r not straight in the harness but big deal, they're soft anyway.

[DaVincisEnvy 0]

Warning: Comments from an even newer newbie than bucketlistpilot

Not much said about the Fusion so far, so here are my .02. Take them with a grain of salt considering my (lack of) experience.

My home DZ has a Fusion 190 for rental and/or student use. I did most of my A license on that canopy, loaded at about 0.85, and I really liked it. My first few AFF jumps were on a Pilot 210, and the Fusion was definitely more fun to fly (I'm sure the slightly higher wing loading helped, too) -- responsive into and out of turns and with a powerful flare.

I never had any problems on opening, but I was just about the only student who didn't. (Worked out well for me -- no competition for that canopy since no one else wanted to take it for a ride!) My openings were always soft -- it sniveled for about 700 feet at my wing loading -- and almost always on-heading. There were a couple of times that I opened into a 45 degree turn, but those corrected themselves before I even had a chance to grab rear risers. In about 20 jumps on that canopy, I had line twists once, and that was only about two wraps (and I know my body position wasn't symmetrical at pull time on that jump).

However, almost every other student I talked to at the DZ is afraid of it -- they complain of frequent line twists and diving turns on opening. Based on my own experience, I hold that it's most likely a result of asymmetical body position on opening, but that's nothing I can prove.

You obviously have more experience and would be loading it higher than I was, but since only one other person has chimed in about the Fusion, I wanted to offer what limited info I could.

[virgin-burner 1]

get a safire2 already!

best canopy out there!

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda