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Bowie

Leg strap sliding open on hop n pop.

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This text is taken from my Blog. There is more exiting reading in there if you get borred one day.

But i had a nasty experience today.


http://bowienberg.blogspot.com/

Well that was exiting

On my jump nr. 4 today I jumped out the plane as usual but when I deployed my canopy I felt my left leg strap in my new harness slide open (aproxx 10 cm) the right one had also loosened a little but not that much. But its a really nasty feeling not knowing what is happening so I just flew my canopy very nice and slow down for landing. When I was on the ground I could easy pull my legs traps fully open. It turned out that there was a little fabric piece in my left buckle that was preventing one of my buckles to fully lock my leg strap. That and the fact that there was some kind of coating on the fabric that was getting full of fine desert sand made it very easy to pull open in a straight pull.

I have now washed the fabric and tested the force to pull it open and now its not possible to pull it open without bending it 90 degree. We have taken pictures and we have video of the landing and when I am pulling the leg strap open just after landing. That we are sending to manufactor for further investigation.

I am just glad I just had more than 90 jumps in less than 8 days so I was able to quickly compensate for the difference in my harness a Velocity is not the best opening canopy with that much riser difference.
Bo Wienberg

vimeo.com/bowienberg

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That and falling out of the back of the harness I worry about.

Beers.



Well if you are able to fall out of the back of your harness its either Way too big for you or you really want to do it on purpose (not having your rig thightend)

So I wouldent be scared of the equipment i am on my way up again in the same rig.
I think its a combination of a new rig coating, fine desert dust, and the fabric in the buckle.

Swooop hard bowie
Bo Wienberg

vimeo.com/bowienberg

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I once had a similar experience to this on a borrowed rig. On deployment I felt the left leg strap open up all the way (as far out as it will go). It put me into a pretty substantial harness turn. I used my right arm to hold some left rear riser to fly straight-ish while I used my left hand to tighten the leg strap up the best I could. It's a scary feeling knowing you have a problem that you cannot just cutaway from and use your reserve.
Less talking, more flying.

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Well if you are able to fall out of the back of your harness its either Way too big for you or you really want to do it on purpose (not having your rig thightend)

After the main deploys there is more slack in the harness. On crw jumper almost fell out of his racer harness during a wrap. Some freestyle positons, such as a pike, can allow a person to slip out the back of a standard harness without too much effort. My first rig had a saddle strap between the 2 leg straps. That was fairly secure, but not very comfortable. I'm afraid style and comfort win out over safety everytime. :P

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" Some freestyle positons, such as a pike, can allow a person to slip out the back of a standard harness without too much effort."

I saw one of my buddies do this before a BASE jump just to show the importance of body position. I later tried it myself with a fully tightened rig and in fact, is not hard at all to slip off a tightened rig in the right position.

On all FF jumps I make sure I have a bungee/pull cord between my legstraps. Why don't more manufactures offer a "fancy pants"option. Another friend of mine jumps all the time with his and loves it.

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I don't know what kind of rig you have or what kind of leg strap hardware it has but there has been some issues with some batches of stainless hardware slipping in the past. I bought a used Vector 3 with stainless hardware and about 400 jumps on it and the legstraps slipped much like what your talking about. I called Relative workshop. They had me ship it to them and even though I was not the original owner they replaced the leg hardware for free. Problem went away.

Doug

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A little update the manufactor have called the rig back and is going to investigate the problem. I will post again when they fix the problem.

But there was NO dirt in the buckle and it is the new stainless type that is seen on moste new rigs.
Bo Wienberg

vimeo.com/bowienberg

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I come from a climbing background & I asked myself exactly the same question: in climbing we 'backup' a buckle by threading the strap 3 times instead of two time through the buckle, why not on skydiving rigs? Or are the leg straps simply pulled too tight? Just curious.

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I come from a climbing background & I asked myself exactly the same question: in climbing we 'backup' a buckle by threading the strap 3 times instead of two time through the buckle, why not on skydiving rigs? Or are the leg straps simply pulled too tight? Just curious.



Hmm, good point about doubling back the webbing. (Do I even remember a photo of Marty Hoey's harness hanging empty, hooked up to a fixed line on Everest?)

A few reasons: (and I might be missing some too)

1) In skydiving we often use US military spec hardware, or hardware that is similar to it. So to some degree the way it is done is the way it has always been done, and the hardware hasn't been designed for a fold back.
2) Leg straps and chest straps don't have clean ends, but have a fold pattern that should generally stop the end of the webbing from pulling through the buckle, unless one is deliberately feeding it through.
3) Skydivers want to adjust the straps more often. Someone might have leg straps loose walking to the plane, a bit tighter in the plane, snug just before the jump, and loose when walking after landing. The climbing fold-back is very secure but not easy to adjust.

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Yep the manufactor cut off the old ones and made me 2 new legg straps. They never seen the problem before.
they also washed my rig before returning it
It got a little dirty in the poond a few days later:o)
Bo Wienberg

vimeo.com/bowienberg

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Bowie

This text is taken from my Blog. There is more exiting reading in there if you get borred one day.

But i had a nasty experience today.


http://bowienberg.blogspot.com/

Well that was exiting

On my jump nr. 4 today I jumped out the plane as usual but when I deployed my canopy I felt my left leg strap in my new harness slide open (aproxx 10 cm) the right one had also loosened a little but not that much. But its a really nasty feeling not knowing what is happening so I just flew my canopy very nice and slow down for landing. When I was on the ground I could easy pull my legs traps fully open. It turned out that there was a little fabric piece in my left buckle that was preventing one of my buckles to fully lock my leg strap. That and the fact that there was some kind of coating on the fabric that was getting full of fine desert sand made it very easy to pull open in a straight pull.

I have now washed the fabric and tested the force to pull it open and now its not possible to pull it open without bending it 90 degree. We have taken pictures and we have video of the landing and when I am pulling the leg strap open just after landing. That we are sending to manufactor for further investigation.

I am just glad I just had more than 90 jumps in less than 8 days so I was able to quickly compensate for the difference in my harness a Velocity is not the best opening canopy with that much riser difference.



Slipping straps are one of those issues that continue to surface. You are not alone.

One of the ways to combat this issue was with the introduction of "bail"s on the leg strap hardware. Of course the inconvenience and rampant speculation , there not so popular , but they are available.

bigger point is the fact that this issue goes unaddressed and continues. take a look at hardware from yesteryear, to see how this was handled. Take a look at modern hardware.

IMO as a industry, the sport has gone backwards in the name of convenience.

Just another risk to be managed. ????




?????


Like I said, the bail type hardware is available for those that have these concerns.
Brett Bickford Did Not Commit Suicide.

He is the victim of ignorance and faulty gear. AND as in the movie: "12 Angry Men," of an ignorant and callous jury.

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c1sc0

I come from a climbing background & I asked myself exactly the same question: in climbing we 'backup' a buckle by threading the strap 3 times instead of two time through the buckle, why not on skydiving rigs? Or are the leg straps simply pulled too tight? Just curious.




Because in climbing they actually take the "hard lessons," and make changes.

Really good points IMO!

And of course the masses will shortly chime in about needing to rapidly get rid of your harness if you have some kind of emergency. They have a point. But in making their point they fail to keep perspective about the other issues too loose nylon has caused many times in the past.

and after all not everyone can afford new gear or to send harness back to the manufacturer to say what the F is this????
Brett Bickford Did Not Commit Suicide.

He is the victim of ignorance and faulty gear. AND as in the movie: "12 Angry Men," of an ignorant and callous jury.

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ChrisD2.0

***I come from a climbing background & I asked myself exactly the same question: in climbing we 'backup' a buckle by threading the strap 3 times instead of two time through the buckle, why not on skydiving rigs? Or are the leg straps simply pulled too tight? Just curious.




Because in climbing they actually take the "hard lessons," and make changes.

Really good points IMO!

And of course the masses will shortly chime in about needing to rapidly get rid of your harness if you have some kind of emergency. They have a point. But in making their point they fail to keep perspective about the other issues too loose nylon has caused many times in the past.

and after all not everyone can afford new gear or to send harness back to the manufacturer to say what the F is this????

Actually, in climbing they ended up going the exact opposite way of what the dude you quoted said. Double-backed harnesses are dinosaurs. Almost no manufacturers make them anymore. Now they all use friction adapters which the climbing industry calls quick buckles, which are not double-backed. The only harnesses that are double-backed anymore are very cheap, bottom-of-the-barrel value harnesses and harnesses for special applications. The rest all use friction adapters like parachuting harnesses have. However, the friction adapters used in climbing are much smaller and possibly more effective than the ones used in parachute applications as gear weight is a major consideration in climbing.

No harness used in climbing is specifically intended for you to bail out out of as quick as possible any more than parachuting harnesses are. I dont know where you pulled that BS from.

If you cant afford to send your rig in after experiencing a major malfunction of the harness, then you cant afford skydiving--period. That's ridiculous. Where do you come up with this shit?

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"No harness used in climbing is specifically intended for you to bail out out of as quick as possible any more than parachuting harnesses are. I dont know where you pulled that BS from. "


Water landings? You know stuff like that.


I'm also going to point out that climbing harnesses like the Vario specifically do NOT use quick buckles. For a number of reasons. And I'm also going to point out that products from Black Diamond are not the chheeeep stuff. Do you have any climbing experience at all?


I will agree with ya about identifying and repairing sloppy harnesses, about the cost that is. But as your going to find out about your comment about raising the price of equipment to increase safety, many people will argue your comment. In fact used gear, and or gear that isn't serviceable anymore is a very hotly debated topic. Unfortunately there is a big percentage over the years of worn gear causing incidents which eventually contribute to fatalities. The chain of events theory.


good points though
Brett Bickford Did Not Commit Suicide.

He is the victim of ignorance and faulty gear. AND as in the movie: "12 Angry Men," of an ignorant and callous jury.

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JohnMitchell

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Well if you are able to fall out of the back of your harness its either Way too big for you or you really want to do it on purpose (not having your rig tightend)

After the main deploys there is more slack in the harness. On crw jumper almost fell out of his racer harness during a wrap. Some freestyle positons, such as a pike, can allow a person to slip out the back of a standard harness without too much effort. My first rig had a saddle strap between the 2 leg straps. That was fairly secure, but not very comfortable. I'm afraid style and comfort win out over safety everytime. :P



Thanks for saying what you have pointed out.

As some others have noticed this is an issue that is still with us.

Apparently some people refuse to learn.


This is the point: "I'm afraid style and comfort win out over safety every time. "

Considering recent events and the faulty attributions and wild ass guesses that so many seem to accept as some kind of fact,...

Slipping out of harnesses has been with us for quite some time.
Brett Bickford Did Not Commit Suicide.

He is the victim of ignorance and faulty gear. AND as in the movie: "12 Angry Men," of an ignorant and callous jury.

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One of the ways to combat this issue was with the introduction of "bail"s on the leg strap hardware



You mentioned such hardware 'had already been credited with saving a life'. In what way was that said to have happened?

(That was in the Vector Digital camo thread which got into leg strap hardware stuff more appropriate here.)

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