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IMGR2

Farmer McNasty Story

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Think about it this way:

And airplane crashes into your house and burns. It's a trespass. But it isn't arson.

Whomever is responsible for the airplane would generally be liable for the damage to the house.

Let's say the skydiver destroys a few ears of corn when he lands in a field. He's responsible for the actual damages suffered. Farmer McNasty, no matter how nasty he is, shouldn't have to pay for the negligence of the skydiver ruining a couple of corn stalks.

Courts have been known to grant "nominal damages" of 1 dollar for a negligent trespass. Enough to make a point, and sometimes enough to get big money like attorneys fees and punitive damages under certain causes of action.


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The balloonist had to pay reperations but nothing beyond that as it was clear that he had to come down and he had to come down there. I suspect the same for a reserve ride or even just a bad spot.



Excellent example. It's the way it usually works.


My wife is hotter than your wife.

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You misunderstand me -

I was referring to the "defending the property" idea -

Surely there is a law of somekind that stipulates that it was an EMERGENCY that there was no fault of the pilots that this happened.
I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

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I'm Honestly terrorfied that someday one of us is going to have a cutaway and this McNasty is going to rip one of our canopies to shreads........[:/]
If the canopy lands in his land and he does in fact do this, is there any legal action that can be taken to repay for damages and such?? Or if it lands in his yard does he get a brand new Sabre2?



actually our farmer McNasty doesn't own the land, he just rents it, so technically I'm not sure what he can do
<--- See look, pink dolphins DO exist!

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At a guess there would be a common law defense to an action for trespass in English law on the grounds of necessity or that it was inadvertent. I can think of a couple of similar authorities for these concepts but nothing directly associated with skydiving. In general I would think a UK skydiver would have a defense so long as they caused no damage and left by the quickest, most practicable route.

I've searched in the past for case precedent but there doesn't appear to be any in the UK. This of course would't really cut it for BASE jumpers as there can not really be any hope of claiming you inadvertently climed up the tower or that you accidentally landed down by your mates in the field.

I think the DZ could certainly be had under Rylands v. Fletcher 1868 though where the DZ is strictly liable for the “mischief” of anything “unnatural” it has “collected” on its land and subsequently “escapes”. (cool and funny old law)

My home DZ has a problem with its farmer McNasty in that they will reportedly be fined £2,000 for every instance of trespass after they lost an earlier court case with them. We have to agree to pay this should we land out in the small area highlighted on the map. I’m curious about this arrangement – its certainly a very odd state of affairs although I can think of a couple of situations it could occur. For some reason the DZ seems unwilling to discuss the finer points of the judgment with me – it would have been interesting.

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Ah, Rylands v.Fletcher. Fun stuff. But, I didn't really see it as the argument here.

In most places in the US (trust me - I stay away from Texas and Louisiana law) trespass is a "dignitary tort." That is, the simple fact that it happened is sufficient for damages.

As far as the commen that he rents the land, he woul have the right of exclusive possession. If the DZ owned the land, and there was nothing in th elease regarding right to enter, Farmer McNasty could keep everyone out including the owner, in most places.

Any off-landing would usually result in nominal damages, but damages nonetheless. For example, if someone "borrowed" your car, drove to the mailbox 100 yards away and returned the car, the car has been nominally damaged. Even though there is apparently nothing wrong with the car, the fact is that the trespass occurred, and you could sue the guy for trespass to chattels. Howso? If he kept it, it would be "conversion."

Stay off of other people's property. This would also make an interesting article.


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We are not flying an aircraft turtle, nor would we want any authorities thinking we are. We are flying a wing, but not an aircraft. I think some people more knowledgable than me can shed some light on the differences here.

We are much like hangliders and parasails, but nothing like gliders and aircraft that require licenses to fly and fall under VERY strict guidance by the FAA. We don't want to be lumped in there.

Emergency yes, but aircraft emergency no.

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It depends on the jurisdiction. Technically, it is a trespass. However, under certain circumstances, your liability is limited to actual damages.

One way or another, it IS a trespass. And from what I hear, deadly force is authorized in some circumstances with regard to property in Texas.

In tort, the skydiver landing off would usually be liable for any damages suffered by the landowner, including nominal damages for simply being there. But then, I don't knwo about different states. Just Cali and those that apply traditional common law.



Many claim the American system is the greatest justice system in the world. Me, I'd say there are some situations where it ain't that great. This would be one of them.

You're saying that unintentionally arriving on a piece of land owned by someone else without this person's permission is trespassing?

Hm, would suck to have a car accident, be thrown outta the window, land in farmer McNasty's field, survive that and then be shot to death because he can do that in Texas.

Hell, we jump at an airfield used by both the military (F-16's, C-130's) and civilians. My sister landed off on a bad spot, inside the military area. Didn't get shot or interrogated, but they did note her name.

Placing property over human life like that is not right.

Santa Von GrossenArsch
I only come in one flavour
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I think you've gone a little too far here.

The point of the Trespass law is that the innocent landowner should not have to pay for someone else's mistake.

So, if Whuffo Joe is driving down the road, spots a few parachutes while driving, loses control and plows into a cornfield, Whuffo Joe will be liable for the damages to the cornfield.

If Acne-Ridden Adolescent Adam decides to spin doughnuts on my front lawn, they he will be liable for damages, as well as other possible liability because he meant to do it.

See what I mean?


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Chad, don't have your e-mail address but I know you have probably seeked legal advice already.As far the use of deadly force in Texas it is not warranted for trespassing and you can not use deadly force if someone is stealing or damaging your property during daylight hours.If your life or others are threatned then ok.The law is different when there is no visible light remaining and if someone is stealing your property then ok. Car repo guys take this into consideration when they reposses a vehicle.Mcnasty had no right whatsoever to assault Chad but he is part of a very prominent family in Caldwell county and as the saying goes Money talks and bullshit walks.Chad I hope you mend quickly and I'm sure you know that we have an excellent prosecutor that jumps at the DZ that hopefully will lend you some good advice.If you need any help with anything feel free to ask!

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I would fully support seeking a legal way around this.

On the downside, McNasty may end up suing the DZ for nuisance and asking for an injunction preventing others from landing in his area.

It could turn off landings into something entirely more serious.


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I like to ride around and check my crops at differant times, but would never get sore at a trespasser that had no intention of being there.
What I meen to say is that if someone falls out of the sky it's not there fault where they land, at least most of the time.
I've seen many baloons land on our farm over the years and only once was there any real dammage and that was an unplaned landing. The baloonist paid and that was it. If he never paid it would not have broken us, it was only like $150 damage. Unless a skydiver realy tried I don't think he or she could possibly do more than $25 damage to any crop and most of the time far less than that.
As for if the land owner could be sued by the trespasser if he got hurt on his land. In NY there is whats called the general obligation law that protects land owners from lawsuits by trespassers as well as invited guests.
I myself have always felt that while the land belongs to me I have a responsibility to the public by letting them also have some enjoyment from it. I don't want the whole population walking around on it but, I do think that if someone wants to hunt, snowmobile, take a walk, skydive, or anything else like that I should atleast let them do it once. If they turn out to be assholes then they can't come back but most people aren't and I have very little trouble with trespassers on over 1000 acres.
I'm starting to ramble so I'd better cut it off there.

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If Acne-Ridden Adolescent Adam decides to spin doughnuts on my front lawn, they he will be liable for damages, as well as other possible liability because he meant to do it.


Intent....good ol intent.

So that brings up the next question. Was the "wayward" skydiver cited for trespassing? Arrested for it? NO? Then the cop responding didn't think there was a crime. He did arrest FMcN, though...and I doubt it was a citizen's arrest.

Felonious assault, attempt murder, reckless vehicular operation...but not, imho, trespass. There was no intent on Chad's part...

Now, there may be a civil issue I don't know anything about, but any CA/DA bringing charges onto Chad would be remiss, imho...

And what about that clearly marked thing? Can you see it from the air? No? Again, not trespassing.

Emergency landing, no harm no foul on the jumper's part. Running him over with a vehicle is a bit beyond the pale. All right, farrrrrrrrrr beyond the pale.

Just my .02...

Ciels-
Michele


~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

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Taking it a little far there guy. Even thought TX has a rightly deserved reputation of landowners protecting themselves and their property, as someone else has pionted out, during daylight hours you can't just go around shooting someone who is on your property without being threatened. When it's night time... well the landowner gets the benifit of the doubt. Either way, and case like that involving a death of a trespasser would undoubtedly end up in a court of law and the landowner tried by a jury of his peers, which, imho is what makes it the best system in the world.

Not to mention, we tend to put to death people who unlawfully kill others in our state

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I think there is a little more to this story.

People don't just run each other down with their cars.

How exactly did he get hurt?


edited to add:

If this is as black and white as you say it is, I'm sure
that Farmer McNasty would have death warrent on his head from the other skydivers at the dropzone.

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I think there is a little more to this story.

People don't just run each other down with their cars.

How exactly did he get hurt?


edited to add:

If this is as black and white as you say it is, I'm sure
that Farmer McNasty would have death warrent on his head from the other skydivers at the dropzone.



I guess this is where I need to jump in before everyone starts theorizing about "what really happened." Those of us who were on the load made a group decision not to post this incident online, but since it has already been posted, I doubt if any of the other jumpers will object to my setting the facts straight. I was one of the jumpers who landed off on this jump, but I was on the road outside "Farmer McNasty's" field when the incident occurred, so I did not witness the assault. Before I lay out the sequence of events, there are a couple of bits of information that may clarify a few of your questions. First, because this was a sunset load, most of this happened in the twilight, and by the time we got back to the drop zone, there was only a hint of light left in the sky. Second, "Farmer McNasty" is not really a farmer at all, but rather a rancher, so there was no destruction of a crop, and to the best of my knowledge, none of the jumpers who landed off encountered any of his livestock. I'll tell the story from my point of view so that it is clear what I witnessed and what I didn't.

It was the sunset load on Saturday, March 27. Half the load was a tracking dive, and the rest were tandems. I was on the tracking dive. We took an early spot northwest of the drop zone, so as to stay out of the airspace of the tandems and their cameramen. The dive went great, but on opening I noticed a free-bag falling below me and somebody under a red reserve canopy following it down. I followed the red reserve and the free bag into a field (actually a pasture) northwest of the DZ. A third jumper also landed in this field with us. I am not sure if this particular field is owned by Farmer McNasty, but it is across a dirt road from the field (McNasty's field) where the incident occurred. The three of us gathered our gear and crossed the fence onto the dirt road and dropped our gear in the bar ditch. One of the other jumpers said he had seen a fourth jumper (the jumper who was eventually hit by the truck) follow the main canopy onto McNasty's land. I waited by the road to flag down whoever was coming to pick us up while the other two skydivers crossed through McNasty's gate to look for the free-bag, which they found about ten yards inside his property line. They then returned to the dirt road. The fourth skydiver still hadn't returned with the main, so we decided somebody had better go help him look for it. One of the other jumpers volunteered to go knock on McNasty's door and inform whoever was home that there is a skydiver down on his property and ask permission to look for the canopy. He walked through the gate and up the dirt road toward the ranch house. The skydiver who'd had the cutaway waited with me by the dirt road. About this time, two vehicles showed up from the drop zone. The people from drop zone and I went back over to the field where we landed to make sure the canopy didn't land over there, while the jumper who'd had the cutaway waited by the vehicles. From just across the street, we saw a pickup truck pull up beside our two vehicles. The jumper with the malfunction walked over and talked to the driver of the pickup for a couple of minutes, so we assumed it was somebody else from the drop zone, but just as we got back to the road, the electric gate opened, and the pickup drove up the road to McNasty's house. The jumper who had talked to him came over and informed us that McNasty (the driver of the pickup) was "pissed." He said he told McNasty that there was one jumper on his field looking for a parachute and a second jumper walking up to the house to tell him we were there. He said McNasty's reply was, "Why can't you people just leave me alone?" We continued to wait by the road for our friends to return from McNasty's field. A few minutes later, we spotted our friends in the distance, running down McNasty's road. They were obviously in an unusual hurry, so I turned to my friend and half-jokingly asked, "Do you think he gave them a time limit to get off his land?" As they got closer, we realized that the jumper who had walked up to the farm house was carrying both of their rigs and the cutaway main. The jumper who landed in McNasty's field was holding his arm and struggling to stay on his feet. As they got near the gate, it was immediately obvious that something was wrong. I can't remember ever seeing anything exactly like the look of fear on their faces, but it was disturbing. As soon as they passed through the gate onto the dirt road, the skydiver who had landed off collapsed onto the ground and begin screaming, "He hit me! He hit me with his car!" We jumped in the vehicles and got out of there as quickly as we could. Back at the DZ, paramedics and the sheriff's office were called.

According to the two jumpers who were there (the one who was hit and the one who witnessed it), this is what happened: They were carrying the main canopy and walking back through the field, toward the private road that leads to the front gate, when McNasty came driving up in his pickup. Spotting them, McNasty swerved off the road, ran over one of their rigs, which was laying on the ground, and hit the jumper who had landed on his field. He then got out of his pickup truck, and the injured jumper screamed at him "You hit me!" His reply was something to the effect of, "You're damned right I hit you! If you ever come back on my property, I'll kill you!" The uninjured skydiver gathered up both of their rigs and the cutaway canopy, and they hightailed it back to the public road, where we were waiting.

The injured jumper was taken away from the drop zone in an ambulance and later diagnosed with bruises and a fractured arm. The police took statements and drove to McNasty's house (which we could see from the DZ) and supposedly arrested him.

As of now, I believe that's all anybody really knows. The skydiver who witnessed the assault is a regular poster to DZ.com, and I'm sure he is following this thread and will post if he has anything he wishes to contribute.

Blue skies,

Douva
I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

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"Running him over with a vehicle is a bit beyond the pale."

Damn, I say carpet bomb the fucker....B|
--------------------

He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

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