Wierd openings snivel then slam

[Anvilbrother 0]

Here is the specs
Paraflite MC-4 370 sqft f-111 canopy.
Lines should be in trim
Slider at the links(original for design type)
Stows not double wrapped but snug
36''PC 8ft bridle
Packed flat with the outboard nose rolled 3-4 times into the center cell

I'm having hard openings on my rig(just got it). It has low jump numbers on it. It sits you upright with usual force, then as soon as you think, aahh we figured it out this opening is going to be good...SLAM right at the end. Hard enough to make me squirm in my harness until landing to ease the pain.

We tried a few things, and the last jump we pro packed it rolling the crap out of the nose and the tail, so we will see what happens today.

Possible causes I think is my speed. I just started jumping again, and might be arching hard during pull time, something I will concentrate on today is slowing down before pitch. I also have been making myself stay in a sable arched box for the first few jumps, so I have not looked up to see whats occuring, I will look up and watch it today to see if the slider is sneaking down from the bumpers, or anything I can tell.

Anyone got any other ideas for me to try today, if we cant figure it out we were thinking of either getting a larger slider made, rubber banding lines or the slider. Thanks for the help

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[LouDiamond 1]

Couple of things:

1. Don't PRO pack it, you will get harder openings.

2. What size is your slider? If it is not 27 x 28 it is the wrong size slider (possibly your problem)

3. Try roll packing it, as that is one of the mfgr approved methods of folding the canopy ( I can post step by step directions if needed)

4. Your D bag might need to be looked at for proper canopy fit, not too small/too big.

5. Are you sure you are seating the slider correctly when you pack and not letting it move? For every inch below the slider stop the slider moves the force increases.

6. How old is the canopy? It might be very worn out/old. Have a porosity test done on it if possible.

7. What is you exit weight ( gear and everything)?

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[Bertt 0]

I don't have the answer, but I have some questions. Have you used Pro-trac or similar to measure your speed? It would take a lot more speed to go from soft openings to what you describe. Have you measured the line trim to be sure it's right? Do you have access to what you were jumping before, or has your weight changed or something that would make that out of the question? Do you have a rigger at your dz who could put a pocket on the slider for you?

You don't have to outrun the bear.

[Anvilbrother 0]

I have owned 3 of these rigs and this is the first with hard openings. I just got a Neptune again but my usual ff speed is 130-135. I usually flat pack with good openings in the past. I will measure the
slider next. My rigger suggested roll pack we will try that next too. We rolled the crap out of the nose an tail on this propack and I have heard it opens worse usually with that type of packing, we will see. Were on a weather hold so I have not been in the air yet today:(

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[LouDiamond 1]

I will save you the jump ticket, PRO packing an MC-4 WILL make the openings worse. I suggest you go back and do the roll pack and see how those openings work for you.

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[hcsvader 1]

Quote

I will save you the jump ticket, PRO packing an MC-4 WILL make the openings worse. I suggest you go back and do the roll pack and see how those openings work for you.

Hey Scott, Could you post how to do a roll pack. I'm trying to find ways to slow down my parafoil. We've tried a few different thing and so far rolling the nose into the center cell seems to be working ok but I want to try as many different things as possible to see what works best.
Thanks

Have you seen my pants?
it"s a rough life, Livin' the dream
>:)

[Anvilbrother 0]

Just got back. The severly nose and tail wrapped propack was better but not comfortable. Freefall speed was 127mph waved at 4 threw at 3500 Neptune showed deployment at 2850. Bryan bulcher a mff jm packed it for me the way they do it in school and said if that does not work we are gonna try something else.

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[riggerrob 558]

Go read the chapter on packing the 425 reserve, in the Strong Tandem manual.
Yes, I know it looks weird - to modern jumpers - but that was the way we packed squares to slow openings back in the early 1980s.

I remember repeatedly folding the nose of my Strato-Cloud towards the B lines and repeatedly folding the tail towards the C lines.
That produced comfortable openings at Claresholm, Alberta (3500 feet above sea level, but summer temperatures raised the density altitude by another few thousand feet).

Forget about rubber bands on the slider because that fell out of fashion in the early 1980s.

[LouDiamond 1]

Pm me you e-mail address. I just looked at the file and it is 2mbs in size so I cannot post it.

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[MartinOlsson 0]

I have no experience what so ever with the gear in question, but from your description of the opening sequence I would guess that packing has very little to do with the slamming. If your canopy is sniveling for a descent amount of time, anything you could improve with a good packjob is probably done. After the snivel i would guess that it's all about gear. Can anyone with knowledge in said gear post your thoughts on slider modifications? Pocket, uppsize, dome? That might do the trick.

/Martin

[Anvilbrother 0]

Sorry Lou I did not see your post till this morning I will send it to you after this. One other thing I thought about was the leg padding stops in the middle of my crotch and not where the load is being applied at opening and other geometry is off that I will try to adjust today. I stayed up till midnight making legpads out of canvas thick rigid foam and elastic keepers. Will update after my first jump. Thanks all the bruises are really showing up this morning

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[skybill 18]

Hi Anvil-b,
Besides checking the various things that Lou mentioned, note the line trim. Check the brake setting to the rest of the canopy. I had a Viking Superlite that did the same thing you describe and right out of the gate!! Experimented around and figured out that the brake setting had the tail too low!! Built a new set of lower brake lines to set the tail 5" higher and found the sweet spot!!

SCR-2034, SCS-680

III%,
Deli-out

[LouDiamond 1]

Quote

One other thing I thought about was the leg padding stops in the middle of my crotch and not where the load is being applied at opening and other geometry is off

Is this because it wasn't properly adjusted or because of your size?

Do you know the history of the canopy and your container? Send me the info off of the pack data label of both and the length of your main risers.

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[DeeBeeGee 0]

if you roll the tail too tight you can cause the opposite effect. while this is unravelling you could have just enough drag to put you in an upright position causing you to accelerate and at the same time shaking your pack job around before anything begins to inflate

[ridestrong 1]

I heard something similar... maybe just worded differently.

If you start your initial cocoon real tight at the lines this will cause what feels like a nice snivel because it takes longer for the slider to catch air. But as this is happening the rest of your pack-job (including the nose) is starting to inflate. Then once the tight wrap at the lines finally opens and the slider catches air your already 1/4 'open' and slam...

Again in other words, make sure you don't wrap the tail too tight and too many times at the lines when you bring the label up to start your cocoon.

*I am not afraid of dying... I am afraid of missing life.*
----Disclaimer: I don't know shit about skydiving.----

[ridestrong 1]

any luck??

*I am not afraid of dying... I am afraid of missing life.*
----Disclaimer: I don't know shit about skydiving.----

[hcsvader 1]

Ive had some luck slowing down my parafoil. I have been rolling the nose like this, Its a 7 cell canopy so I take the 3 outer cells and roll them up real tight, then I stuff these cells into the center cells and roll the nose up just past the A lines. then I continue to do a normal flat pack. Also I am not leaving the brakes unstowed.

This seems to be slowing the opening downs pretty well. They are still very quick but not hard or painful in anyway. I haven't taken it to terminal yet but am doing 5 sec delays out of an otter doing 90 knots.

Have you seen my pants?
it"s a rough life, Livin' the dream
>:)

[airtwardo 6]

Spiderslider?

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[hcsvader 1]

D-ring slider

Have you seen my pants?
it"s a rough life, Livin' the dream
>:)

[airtwardo 6]

Quote

D-ring slider

Your Pilot Chute size as you know has a major effect on the opening with those, as well as the brake settings with Foils being critical regarding snivel time....more brakes = more snivel.

If you're interested... PM me and I can tell ya how to make a foil open REALLY soft!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[AndyMan 7]

Quote

If you're interested... PM me and I can tell ya how to make a foil open REALLY soft! WinkCool

Daisy-chain the lines?

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[airtwardo 6]

Quote

Quote

If you're interested... PM me and I can tell ya how to make a foil open REALLY soft! WinkCool

Daisy-chain the lines?

_Am

That might work too.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[Anvilbrother 0]

Have not gotten to jump again. I will post what works when i find it.

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