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kallend

Three fatal accidents in a week

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No altitude is too high to chop. I look up and if I can’t land it, it’s gone. I don’t do rigging in the air. Too many people have died trying it.

Sparky



Heh, let's hear you say that when you take your brand new $2000 canopy on a 12,500' high pull only to mal out the door in 40kts uppers.

Anyways, be careful of the Safety Day Curse. It seems like 2 or 3 fatalities always occur within a 2 week span before/after Safety Day.



Anyone that is doing financial calculations during a mal really needs to get out of the sport. While attempting to ride it down to a lower altitude so maybe you can recover it easier it's entirely possible you could end up with a situation that becomes unrecoverable.

Chop it and worry about the money later.
quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

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I read an article somewhere (I'll see if I can find a link) talking about this phenomenon and a scientific study into it. The theory was (IIRC) that what happens is that the brain becomes aware of more information or more detail than is normal and based on previous experience, the amount of information available makes us perceive that more happens in the same amount of time. I believe the theory was somehow related to some autistic people who always perceive everything.

To rephrase, in every day life, we filter a lot of the little things out and get used to x amount of data in a space of time. In high stress situations, we become aware of the extra information (i.e the filter is removed) giving us the impression that more time has passed than actually has.

I jumped on Saturday and felt so uncurrent, it seemed to be over so quickly, it's interesting how we perceive time as a flexible thing depending on our state of mind.

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Does that count holding on to your handles because you know they cost a few bucks? lol

I would be lying if I said, I wasnt pissed about having to cutaway, on my first jump after repack last summer. I was in fact yelling DAMMIT as I did it, based solely on financial costs of it. Although it didnt influence the response. I think if you have had a few cutaways you have a bit more wherewithall as it is ocurring as opposed to a students with their first cutaway.

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Does that count holding on to your handles because you know they cost a few bucks? lol

.



I've only had 2 cutaways, but neither time did I think about holding on to the handles, and each time, once the reserve opened and I went for the toggles, I was surprised to see the handles still in my hands.
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=129112147

Check this story out about time distortion in stressfull situations. It was done by researchers working with skydivers.
If the link dosn't work check NPR.org and look up
"Why a brush with death triggers the slow MO effect."

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I tried a Mr. Bill at less than 200 jumps and it did't work out so well. My 260 sq ft canopy was spinning from 12K to 8K where I finally chopped it because I was graying out -- about to lose consciousness. I was loaded at about 1-1. I found my free bag and my canopy, but it was still Mr. Toad's wild ride and I didn't give the loss of the canopy one second of thought. Time to save my life. Period.
Charlie Gittins, 540-327-2208
AFF-I, Sigma TI, IAD-I
MEI, CFI-I, Senior Rigger
Former DZO, Blue Ridge Skydiving Adventures

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It was done by researchers working with skydivers.



Go back and read the article again. He did not work with skydivers.

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something called SCAD diving. (SCAD stands for Suspended Catch Air Device.)



Sparky
My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

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Heh, let's hear you say that when you take your brand new $2000 canopy on a 12,500' high pull only to mal out the door in 40kts uppers.



I pulled at 2800m at a really windy day only to discover a turning canopy due to a tension knot. I could stop the turning with the right rear riser. I did shake the risers trying to clear the tension knot, I tried stalling the canopy, but nothing fixed it. I flew it towards the LZ on the rear riser and decided that I should cut away at 1500m. Only problem was that I was too tired in my right arm that I could not cut away. I solved it by using both hands (it was an easy pull when I helped with the left hand), but it could have been a nasty surprise if I had used the left hand to pull down on the riser instead.

I flew the reserve in deep brakes and landed at about the same time as the freebag and main, knowing where to find them.

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Anyone that is doing financial calculations during a mal really needs to get out of the sport. While attempting to ride it down to a lower altitude so maybe you can recover it easier it's entirely possible you could end up with a situation that becomes unrecoverable.

Chop it and worry about the money later.

I had a premature opening at 13K in Costa Rica, jumping along the coast, strip cut out of the jungle. My pilot chute was caught in my steering lines, making my Stiletto 135 want to spin up. I could control it with opposite toggle. I planned to chop at 2000' along the runway. The pilot chute cleared by 10K. I landed under my main with no problem.

Should I take up bowling?

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Does that count holding on to your handles because you know they cost a few bucks? lol


I used to use a ripcord to open my main on every jump, same as all the other old farts here. Never did huck 'em. When we started jumping piggybacks, we retrained ourselves to them new fancy 3-rings and such. Didn't make any sense to huck those either. :P:D

BTW, our students are trained to hold onto the handles. :)

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I don't think that new jump season currency was an issue in these cases. I'm not dismissing your idea, you're correct to remind folks about easing in after a lay-off, me included. Stay safe brothers and sisters.
Rainbo
TheSpeedTriple - Speed is everything
"Blessed are those who can give without remembering, and take without forgetting."

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I'm going to chime in here too, I have 7 reserve rides in 3500 jumps, I will fight to the hard deck, not for financial consideration but because the reserve is a last line of defense, I have resolved a number of mals without cutting away. Do I trust the reserve, yes, but I would rather keep its use to a minimum.

Got a lineover near a wing tip, stall your canopy if you have the altitude to spare.

Mad line twists? Maybe pulling the correct toggle will stop that spin.

Play safe people.
Life is ez
On the dz
Every jumper's dream
3 rigs and an airstream

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Is there a statistical correlation between "new jump season" and incidents?



There's certainly a statistical correlation between "new jump season" and incidents.

There's also a statistical correlation between "off jump season" and incidents, where people go to winter DZs.

There's also statistical correlation between "changing gear" and incidents.

There's also statistical correlation between "landing out" and incidents.

:S

Edit to point out the obvious. Thanks for being the only skydiver on the planet to notice that currency matters.
Owned by Remi #?

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AdD

I'm going to chime in here too, I have 7 reserve rides in 3500 jumps, I will fight to the hard deck, not for financial consideration but because the reserve is a last line of defense, I have resolved a number of mals without cutting away. Do I trust the reserve, yes, but I would rather keep its use to a minimum.

Got a lineover near a wing tip, stall your canopy if you have the altitude to spare.

Mad line twists? Maybe pulling the correct toggle will stop that spin.

Play safe people.




In the late 70's I watched Jim Stoyas go in because he fought a malfunction too long, you could actually hear him say "I fucked up" after chopping and going for the reserve way too low.

Adjusted for inflation, the skygods of today couldn't carry Stoyas's jock. He was one of the best OF the best.

The first comment I heard that afternoon was - 'Pretty goddamn stupid to die, not wanting to trade a bad parachute for a good one.'

I've got 14 cutaways in 4000 jumps...haven't been under an 'opening' reserve below 1800' in 35 years.

If it doesn't look right I try once ~ ONE TIME ~ to square it away, if that doesn't work it's gone...period.

You start mixing 'maybe' & 'if' & 'almost' into your emergency procedures and eventually ~ you will die.

We use to say 'never do any rigging with your leg straps snapped' - hanging under a malfunctioning parachute is no time to get creative.

We AGAIN have proof positive that sometimes, ALL you achieve by doing that, is room temperature.

If you don't trust your reserve - then either don't jump, or take along two.

By having the mind-set you 'want to keep it's use to a minimum', you have internally green lighted pushing a bad situation farther than you would if you were 100% confident in it...maybe farther than you should.

I understand what you're saying & why...it's an odds game.

Well check the numbers, how many people have died not cutting away in time as opposed to malfunctioning their reserve. 50:1? 100:1?

In reality...you are betting your life 100%, EVERY SINGLE TIME you jump, that the reserve will work as advertised.

If you don't believe that, think again.

~You've been around for a while, we both know...you're gonna do what you're gonna do.

- okay fine...but PLEASE don't put the seed of your flawed reasoning out like that for less experienced jumpers to consider as possibly viable - especially not here, in a thread that's clearly showing death as a very REAL result.

Play SMART people!










~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

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I'm going to chime in here too, I have 7 reserve rides in 3500 jumps, I will fight to the hard deck, not for financial consideration but because the reserve is a last line of defense, I have resolved a number of mals without cutting away. Do I trust the reserve, yes, but I would rather keep its use to a minimum.



Just to state what I'm sure you already know, but every hundred feet you spending fighting a problem on your main main is a hundred feet you won't have to deal with any problems on your reserve.

I've chopped a spinner at 10k, knowing I had zero chance of recovering it and some chance of reducing my capacity to respond later due to diminished faculties. When you know, you know.

Blues,
Dave
"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

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Mad line twists? Maybe pulling the correct toggle will stop that spin.



WTF???.

I think you need to think again. You would do well to read and ABSORB Twardos advice.

He can tell you about ash dives as well.....
My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

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