Law question: Employer spying

[AggieDave 6]

This came up through a discussion with a friend who thinks her employer is spying on her. We know for a fact that there is "spy" type software on her computer, that is basically a key logger and logs all other activity (web pages, programs run, time, etc), she also thinks, through random conversation with her boss, that he may have "bugged" the office. Since he has brought up conversation points seemingly at random from stuff she didn't say to him or to anyone that would talk to him on that level.

I thought this stuff was illegal, as for the computer side, that depends on ownership of the computer and networks and such, right? For instance, if the boss isn't the owner but is the boss through a contract that was awarded through a bid and a city owns the computer, then it would be illegal, right?

Lawrocket, help.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[CrazyRock 0]

there are lots of companies that use spy software and monitoring tools on employees. as far as i know, it's not illegal. they have agreements set up where if you are using their network or computers, then you are agreeing that they may monitor your activity. the boss would be acting on the companies ownership, but the company might/should have policies that would keep him from looking at that info whenever he wanted. if the computer were leased or such, it probably wouldn't make much difference..

for the audio survailance, i'm pretty sure that video is legal but audio is not.

-Seth :)

[nathaniel 0]

This sounds like a case in which what's legal and what's a bright idea don't always coincide. Some places, like financial companies, are required by federal regulation to record all conversations with clients and prospective clients--including email. In this kind of situation it's generally going to be the case that the company errs on the side of caution and records everything since it's a) cheaper than paying for filtering and b) less likely to result in Big Problems.

I've worked at places where this was the Rule. I saw staff and managers fired for accessing the retained email inappropriately, and I saw staff fired on the basis of activities that were revealed in the retained email.

It's definitely a gray area--I can't imagine I'd be working for anyone very long if I knew they were abusing the records they kept about me. It sounds probable that the bossman in this case is over the line, wherever it is...

nathaniel

My advice is to do what your parents did; get a job, sir. The bums will always lose. Do you hear me, Lebowski?

[lawrocket 3]

Does she own the office? The desk? THe computer? THe software? Anything?

If yes, then she may have a right to privacy. But in most cases, an employer has a right ot know what's going on, especially in his office, at his desk, on his computer. Most people have no expectation of privacy at work.

This is different in restrooms and the like. But, none of my employees will be busy downloading porn while I'm paying them and giving them offices, computers, etc.

Of course, I could be wrong... Especially in Texas...

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[AggieDave 6]

Quote

Does she own the office? The desk? THe computer? THe software? Anything?

The boss doesn't own them either, though, he's working under a contract won through a bid process for a city, so are they really his to do that too.

I guess thw worst part about all of this is that the boss is a loser who really mistreats his employees, to the point I'm trying to talk my friend into filing sexual harassment charges. He walks all over her (who runs his office) while he's out dicking around and not doing his job.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Deuce 1]

Then she should try to get a different job.

When someone is paying you to work and think for them, the things you produce and invent belong to them.

Take a really smart inventor-guy. This guy goes into a lab stocked by his employer and invents a zillion-dollar gizmo. The patent goes to the employer, the employee gets whatever his contract or salary said before he made a zillion dollars for the company.

[AggieDave 6]

Quote

the things you produce and invent belong to them.

A lot of that depends on the work contract/work release that you sign with them.

Sort of like you and your camera at the DZ. If you're doing a paid jump, the video might belong to the DZ, if you had to sign a contract that said so, if not, the video is all yours and you can do with it what you wish.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[ChrisL 2]

Employees of a company using networks and equipment owned and operated by that company have NO expectation of privacy with regard to e-mail or other internet use.
Its a fact. Most companies make that fact very clear to the employees.

I am currently working for a company that provides e-mail services to other companies, in other words an outsourcer.

As a System administrator, I regularly get requests from some of them to provide copies of e-mail messages sent to or from specific individuals for them to review.

For example: Give me copies of all messages sent to so-and-so between date 1 and date 2. etc.

They generally only do this if they have a specific reason to keep an eye on someone., like perhaps they think he is conducting business for himself while at work or trying to cultivate business from the customers
of their employer or other such stuff.

They dont, as a matter of course, go through everyones communications all the time, but they do have the legal right to do so if they choose to.

__

My mighty steed

[Deuce 1]

Dude, do the lawyer thing with the Rocket guy. You go to a regular salary job and everything you do goes to the person who signs your paycheck authorization.

I am in the middle of an amazingly heinous wrongful termination thingamajabbie, and I am getting to know the rules pretty good.

[AggieDave 6]

Quote

I am in the middle of an amazingly heinous wrongful termination thingamajabbie, and I am getting to know the rules pretty good.

So if I "facemask" the boss guy, will I only get a 15 yard penalty and repeat of the 1st down?

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[ChrisL 2]

Should be interesting, especially since its not likely he will be wearing a helmet
Can you hook him up the nostrils and get the same effect?

__

My mighty steed

[AggieDave 6]

Quote

Can you hook him up the nostrils and get the same effect?

Yeah, I'm pretty sure I can, if not I could use a meat hook, that'll catch and pull...

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Deuce 1]

Quote

So if I "facemask" the boss guy, will I only get a 15 yard penalty and repeat of the 1st down?

Well, if you tear an eyeball out of the socket, that's mayhem, and a possible loss of down.

[Fast 0]

Honestly this is something that a lot of people are having problems with legaly in court right now. I am working as a sys admin in a law firm and where I am it is blatenly clear that we are reserving the right to monitor any and all activities on our network.

You can't log into our domain without agreeing with the policy. If you don't want to be recorded then you can't log in, etc. It all comes down to a reasonable expectation of privacy. If the boss is recording the persons email on their lunch break to thier boyfriend things end up on shaky ground if there isn't a specific policy against it etc.


I know that for me, as a sys admin, if a supervisor wants to look at someones mailbox I get it in writing so its not my ass on the line.

~D
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

[nightjumps 1]

Quote

I'm trying to talk my friend into filing sexual harassment charges. He walks all over her (who runs his office) while he's out dicking around and not doing his job.

There is a difference between "sexual harassment" and "hostile workplace." If you jump the gun on the wrong allegation, a new and different allegation will appear as a disgruntled employee.

[slug 1]

Hi Big guy

So if I "facemask" the boss guy, will I only get a 15 yard penalty and repeat of the 1st down?

[AggieDave 6]

Quote

There is a difference between "sexual harassment" and "hostile workplace." If you jump the gun on the wrong allegation, a new and different allegation will appear as a disgruntled employee.

Ok, then what would be comments made in a patronizing manner using her being a women to degrade her? What about sexually explicit comments meant to be a joke, but are offensive to her and others in the office, after a request to stop them have been made?

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[catfishhunter 1]

Quote

Ok, then what would be comments made in a patronizing manner using her being a women to degrade her? What about sexually explicit comments meant to be a joke, but are offensive to her and others in the office, after a request to stop them have been made?

Tell her to keep a log.
What day and time they where said. The day and time when they requested that the behavior stop. get witnesses signatures etc. What you just said is sexual harrassment. PERIOD. I have sat through more sexual harrassment classes then anyone person should ever have to go through.
side note it isn't jsut men that sexual harrass. I had a male employee bring charges against his female supervisor. that was a fun 3 weeks of investigation... NOT

Also I think everyone missed you saying that she thinks he is recording her conversations. That is whole different issue. Recording a conversation without prior consent is illegal. You can record all the images you want but you cannot record a conversation.Wiretap laws don't just apply to the police.

MAKE EVERY DAY COUNT
Life is Short and we never know how long we are going to have. We must live life to the fullest EVERY DAY. Everything we do should have a greater purpose.

[chuckbrown 0]

Quote

Quote

Ok, then what would be comments made in a patronizing manner using her being a women to degrade her? What about sexually explicit comments meant to be a joke, but are offensive to her and others in the office, after a request to stop them have been made?

Tell her to keep a log.
What day and time they where said. The day and time when they requested that the behavior stop. get witnesses signatures etc. What you just said is sexual harrassment. PERIOD. I have sat through more sexual harrassment classes then anyone person should ever have to go through.
side note it isn't jsut men that sexual harrass. I had a male employee bring charges against his female supervisor. that was a fun 3 weeks of investigation... NOT

Also I think everyone missed you saying that she thinks he is recording her conversations. That is whole different issue. Recording a conversation without prior consent is illegal. You can record all the images you want but you cannot record a conversation.Wiretap laws don't just apply to the police.

What he said. Most states have a human relations commission (or similar state agency) which investigates allegations of sexual harassment/discrimination. Keep the log and then make an appointment with the appropriate agency. They'll take the first steps. Generally you must file through the human relations commission before you can sue in court.

[slug 1]

Hi Youall

I'm not a lawyer, so I'm not sure if it's against the law for employers to monitor their phones to verify that the phones aren'yt being used for personnel use, and then there's the nosy workmate sitting next to you.

Yes your friend can go the legal route (a long road) but in the meantime she will need to find another job anyway. Or be exposed to more abuse.

If there are other jobs available in her commuting area she has other options that are a lot quicker.

Just my opinion.

R.I.P.

[Ducky 0]

I have no expertise wso on this, but imho if he is the boss whatever he wants to do is cool. Its not "her" job it is his job to give to whom on the conditions of his choosing. People/employees seem to forget that. I'll stop before i hit a rant...


kwak

Sometimes your the bug, sometimes your the windshield. Sometimes your the hammer sometimes your the nail. Question is Hun, Do you wanna get hammered or do you wanna get nailed?????

[nightjumps 1]

http://www.menweb.org/throop/harass/myth.html

[crwmike 0]

Quote

This came up through a discussion with a friend who thinks her employer is spying on her. We know for a fact that there is "spy" type software on her computer, that is basically a key logger and logs all other activity (web pages, programs run, time, etc), she also thinks, through random conversation with her boss, that he may have "bugged" the office. Since he has brought up conversation points seemingly at random from stuff she didn't say to him or to anyone that would talk to him on that level.

I thought this stuff was illegal, as for the computer side, that depends on ownership of the computer and networks and such, right? For instance, if the boss isn't the owner but is the boss through a contract that was awarded through a bid and a city owns the computer, then it would be illegal, right?

Lawrocket, help.

Dude,

We are living in a society where employees of various govt agencies can break down your door without a warrant, spirit you away and detain you without charges, deny you access to an attorney (or any outside contact, for that matter) and subject you to physical, moral and spiritual degradation ...and you want to know if an employer can keep track of what an employee does !?!?!?!

[ChasingBlueSky 0]

I could be wrong - but calls can no longer be monitored after it has been established as a personal call. Also, illegal wiretap is a big deal - he could be crossing that line.

_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....

[jfields 0]

The other side of that is that you can look at it that all calls on a company-owned telephone must be work-related calls. Don't like the idea of something personal being recorded? Don't have personal calls. Don't like the idea of personal e-mails being read? Don't send/receive them at work.

It really is pretty simple. If you don't own the telephone or computer, you have no reasonable expectation to have it be private. Depending on where you work, you may or may not be legally entitled to some privacy on your communications, but it is the prudent thing to do just not to expect it. Act accordingly and you won't find yourself having problems.