'How to nail the landing'! - tips and advice sought urgently please

[humanflite 0]

ok folks
So Im mid way through my AFF here in the Uk and loving every minute of it except the landings...

The instructors are great and as drill us heavily on the freefall side of things, but I feel the landings dont get as much focus...except 'flare at 10-15ft' and face into wind

I took a no wind landing yesterday and even tho I was jumping an AFF canopy (Im 15 stone) I messed it up, had half brakes on till maybe 70ft and the instructor radioed me to 'toggles up' (I was resting on the toggles which is a mistake I will never make again!) and then I letem go and surged into the dirt as I flared with arms out forward in a panic instead of between the groin.

I also stepped out of the flare so I got told which turned out to be a big mistake as I twisted my ankle.
fairly badly

So can any of you experienced jumpers tell an AFFer how to land as light and safe as possible?

I didnt have any issues really till this no wind landing which threw my 'head into wind' landing plan out of the door.

Tips like -

How to judge my distance when sub 50ft (eg/ when to flare)

Is it always best to have toggles fully UP right until the flare?

WHat other info would help me not to injure myself again

thanks

[MajorDad 0]

Talk with the instructors at your drop zone who know you and your skills and can give you feedback.

Blue Ones

Major Dad
CSPA D-579

[billvon 2,397]

1) Your instructors are always your best source of info. Hound them if they are not giving you enough instruction on this. Use information here as background only.

2) Always prepare to PLF, no matter how much you want to land softly and stand it up.

3) With my vision, when I can see individual blades of grass, that's 10 feet. When the roof of a flat 10 foot high building disappears (like the top of the manifest trailer) that's also about 10 feet. Do not look down; look out at a 45 degree angle. Helps with depth perception.

4) Keep your hands all the way up until it is time to flare. That keeps up your speed. Speed = good flare.

5) No wind landings are no different than regular landings in terms of flare timing - but they look different and scarier since they involve a faster groundspeed. Don't be fooled.

[humanflite 0]

Quote

1) Your instructors are always your best source of info. Hound them if they are not giving you enough instruction on this. Use information here as background only.

2) Always prepare to PLF, no matter how much you want to land softly and stand it up.

3) With my vision, when I can see individual blades of grass, that's 10 feet. When the roof of a flat 10 foot high building disappears (like the top of the manifest trailer) that's also about 10 feet. Do not look down; look out at a 45 degree angle. Helps with depth perception.

4) Keep your hands all the way up until it is time to flare. That keeps up your speed. Speed = good flare.

5) No wind landings are no different than regular landings in terms of flare timing - but they look different and scarier since they involve a faster groundspeed. Don't be fooled.

Thanks Billvon

1/ will do but any quality extra info I can get is always a bonus in my book!

2/ Thanks. I went straight for the PLF position but then remembered that my leg straps prevent me from doing a proper PLF as I can no way get my thighs together and will end up doing a bow legged effect so that I can get feet together!! Is this common with all rigs or just AFF ones?
Im mobile and decent physique and its several other students Ive spoken to have said the same thing?!

3 and 4/ thanks, great info

5/ Thanks a lot.
It was a lot faster than I was used to and I definately panicked a little as the ground was coming up much quicker than normal. I think that was partly to blame (combined with being on brakes and then off - and surging) with my bad flare for my scud landing


Im curious about the different speeds involved.
How is rate of fall factored in to groundspeed?

Surely a 15 stone guy under a 280 will come in harder than an 11 stone guy under the same canopy same conditions?

SO even if they both have a 20mph groundspeed surely the bigger guy is going to land harder?

or am I talking rubbish?

[Broke 0]

Practice... see if someone can video your landings. Think about this the landing is one of the most important part of the skydive, but it only takes a split second to make the perfect landing to one that is ok to one that is passable to one that is rolling in the dirt to one that is a serious injury

Divot your source for all things Hillbilly.
Anvil Brother 84
SCR 14192

[rnhawley 0]

Warning, tips from nother noobe's perspective. Having recently gone through the learning process on landing (ongoing actually), the one tip that really helped me was to keep my eyes focused approximately 45 degrees ahead of me. What I mean is not down between my feet, nor up at the horizon. I find this gives me a good perspecitive of my height and helps time my flares better. It also allows me to see the whole landing area well.

Don't worry, you'll get it!

Bob

[billvon 2,397]

>my leg straps prevent me from doing a proper PLF as I can no way get
> my thighs together . . .

It's not comfortable and it's not easy, but it's generally doable in modern student rigs..

>Surely a 15 stone guy under a 280 will come in harder than an 11 stone
>guy under the same canopy same conditions?

If neither one flares - then the heavier person will hit harder, since he will be descending faster than the lighter person.

If both flare - their vertical speed in both cases can be brought to zero. The heavier person will have _slightly_ more forward speed at the end of the flare, but not much more.

Speed is your friend during the flare. It is turned into lift by the action of flaring. No speed = no flare. That's why they want you to keep your hands up.

[tkhayes 126]

Take a look through the attached stuff, including article from Bill von. PD has several articles as well on their website.

Keep in mind that every time you flare, you are trying to create LEVEL FLIGHT. then hold LEVEL FLIGHT throughout the flare until the parachute slows down.

Do not just mechanically pull the toggles down. When you do that, the canopy will respond differently depending on the wind, weight, speed etc.

Practice a flare by paying attention to the elevator feeling in your stomach, are you climbing or dropping? Or in the middle somewhere? (just right) When you do a practice flare, pay attention to how much input it takes to get the right amount of elevator feeling in your gut, then practice continuing that amount of flare input and continue all the way to stall or 'full stop' when practicing.

Add all the other steps to your practice flare, hands up - eyes front, feet ready etc.

We sort of elude to that in the articles, but it is better if you practice the flare properly - and I am still working on that written article myself.

The rest is timing it just so you reach level flight when your feet are inches above the ground.

Of course your parachute also has to cooperate. If you are jumping a 1980's F-111 baffed out parachute, all bets are off - it will not flare. If you have a properly loaded, Z-po student canopy, then you should be able to pull it off.

From your post you initial problem seems to be flaring too high. So force yourself to look forward when practicing. And practice properly.

ask more questions if you need to, but at 15 stone, you need to get it right sooner or you will get hurt sooner or later

[humanflite 0]

Thanks for the input guys...

Billvon

Thanks very much for this useful info...theres some real food for thought there and you have helped me understand a few things that were bugging me and even though I asked my instructor he didnt answer my fall rate question as eloquently as you did

tkhayes. Thanks a lot as well.....

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Take a look through the attached stuff, including article from Bill von. PD has several articles as well on their website.

Thanks for posting this article. Its superb and has been really helpful and I hope will make a good future reference point for me.

Quote

Keep in mind that every time you flare, you are trying to create LEVEL FLIGHT. then hold LEVEL FLIGHT throughout the flare until the parachute slows down.

10:4

Quote

Do not just mechanically pull the toggles down. When you do that, the canopy will respond differently depending on the wind, weight, speed etc.

Practice a flare by paying attention to the elevator feeling in your stomach, are you climbing or dropping? Or in the middle somewhere? (just right) When you do a practice flare, pay attention to how much input it takes to get the right amount of elevator feeling in your gut, then practice continuing that amount of flare input and continue all the way to stall or 'full stop' when practicing.

Add all the other steps to your practice flare, hands up - eyes front, feet ready etc.

Superb tips. Much appreciated....

Quote

We sort of elude to that in the articles, but it is better if you practice the flare properly - and I am still working on that written article myself.
The rest is timing it just so you reach level flight when your feet are inches above the ground.

Im guessing the 'inches above ground' part is the bit that takes lots and lots of practice

Quote

Of course your parachute also has to cooperate. If you are jumping a 1980's F-111 baffed out parachute, all bets are off - it will not flare. If you have a properly loaded, Z-po student canopy, then you should be able to pull it off.

No complaints about the kit (or DZ or instructors) Its all nearly new ultra modern equipment so any landing fault lies squarely with me unfortunately

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From your post you initial problem seems to be flaring too high. So force yourself to look forward when practicing. And practice properly.

ask more questions if you need to, but at 15 stone, you need to get it right sooner or you will get hurt sooner or later

I will do more pratice flares at altitude and try and get more of a feel for what the right amount of flare is...
For sure, Ive learnt my lesson about resting on the brakes and not flaring as I was taught. Those are two mistakes I wont be repeating

Re the 15 stone bit. I agree totally.
As part of a general fitness regime Ive gone on a bit of a health kick and will get my weight down to the optimum which I used to be at before getting a little lazy.
I reckon I can make 13.5 stone pretty easily within a couple of months so Im hoping this will help me as well.

But having said that, I do play squash at a good level 2 or 3 times a week so Im not exactly a slob. but I clearly need to trim down a bit to make things easier on myself.

[Orange1 0]

And usually in these threads someone brings up "The parachute and its pilot" by Brian Germain, which is well worth a read (or 5). There are chapters in there that won't have much relevance to you right now, like on swooping, but it is a great book for understanding how your canopy flies and that helps you understand what to do, both with flying it and landing it.

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[Chubba 0]

Learn the PLF like an art and PLF whenever you don't feel comfortable come in, it can be a 0.5 second decision just before you touch down.

I'm 10 jumps in now and PLF on every jump... I got weak knee's and ankles and I've learnt the true value of rolling it in.

Jump 8 I actually flared fully at 50ft (what was I thinking???) but came out of it, ready to jump in the next hour.

This skill is very underrated IMO.

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Is it always best to have toggles fully UP right until the flare?

I was always taught yes (obviously ignoring if you have to turn into the wind)... if you pull them too high... If it's extremely high, you can let them up and surge IMO, but if it's relatively low, just keep them down and PLF... that's been my experience.