Security Safety Chute 150 Manual

[NovaTTT 1]

Does anyone have a .pdf copy of a manual for this PEP?

I have one from 1978 and cannot find a newer version. Is there a newer version??

UKS and PM do not have any Security Manuals.

"Even in a world where perfection is unattainable, there's still a difference between excellence and mediocrity." Gary73

[IanHarrop 37]

check out this site:
http://www.skydiveky.com/store/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_ID=180

"Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy

[pchapman 261]

The pdf copy I have is also 1978, with a 1 page 1982 advisory bulletin added on front, about the optional use of ejector discs (kicker plates). Since the company was gone by '84 I would be surprised if there's anything newer.

I guess the 150 wasn't in the acid mesh bulletin ... because it didn't even have mesh over its vents.

I won't bug you about how ancient it is!

[NovaTTT 1]

Thanks Ian and Peter.

I'm familiar with Skydive KY, I just have no use for them (and their copy is also 1978). Thanks for the tip nonetheless.

Maybe there has been no substantial modification or improvement since 1978 (excluding the PC ejector disc AB).

"Even in a world where perfection is unattainable, there's still a difference between excellence and mediocrity." Gary73

[fcajump 153]

Quote

Thanks Ian and Peter.

I'm familiar with Skydive KY, I just have no use for them (and their copy is also 1978). Thanks for the tip nonetheless.

Maybe there has been no substantial modification or improvement since 1978 (excluding the PC ejector disc AB).

Nova,

I've got several versions of that manual at home, will try to remember and check tonight.

BTW - if you need new loops for it, DeWolf used to make them up by the hand-full... he's got an ancient Egyptian secret for them...

JW

Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

[councilman24 36]

Sure UKS has it. Just have to know where to look. And no there is nothing newer.

http://www.ukskydiver.co.uk/cms/index.php?option=com_docman&task=cat_view&gid=198&Itemid=240
http://www.ukskydiver.co.uk/cms/index.php?option=com_docman&task=doc_download&gid=776&Itemid=240
Say thank you.


BTW there are some riggers who believe the life limit of 15 years in chapter two of this manual

http://www.ukskydiver.co.uk/cms/index.php?option=com_docman&task=doc_download&gid=779&Itemid=240

should and does apply. Legally probably a tough case to make that. And where do you get springs and s hooks?

The links above go to the list rather than straight to the doc. 350 and 150 are the last two items.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[riggerrob 558]

Off the top of my head, there are Service Bulletins about adding riser covers, zig-zagging the end of risers, etc.
At least three different closing loops were supplied by GQ Security over the years and Dave DeWolf invented a fourth type of closing loop. The last time I packed a Security PEP (and it was a while ago) I made 350-type closing loops with Cypres cord.
I could show you a few other tricks for closing Securities .... but ....

But you really have to ask yourself whether it is wise to repack parachutes long past their service life (GQ recommends retiring after 15 years)?????

Most of the other PEP manufacturers (Butler, National, Para-Phernalia, etc.) recommend a 20 year service life.

[NovaTTT 1]

Jim:

Quote

BTW - if you need new loops for it, DeWolf used to make them up by the hand-full... he's got an ancient Egyptian secret for them...

Thanks for the tip - but what the hell!??!!? He told me the "Egyptian Secret" was the trick for closing the two-pin seat or chest rig! That rascal has too many "hot tricks"!!!

If you have a usable version of the manual, I'd appreciate it! The 1978 version I have as .pdf is so crappy it won't even legibly print!

Terry:

Quote

Sure UKS has it. Just have to know where to look. And no there is nothing newer. Say thank you.

OK - I admit to mis-typing as I know UKS has it, but doesn't have a newer version. I stand corrected! "Thank you"

Quote

BTW there are some riggers who believe the life limit of 15 years in chapter two of this manual (x) should and does apply.

The two I'm working on are definately over this limit but I've not inspected them yet so I don't know their condition. I'm not able to locate the manual you referenced, but it sounds like it doesn't specifically limit the 150. Maybe they have the same service life philosophy as Strong.

A few years ago there was discussion about service life and SE's position is to leave it to "rigger's discretion". Now I don't necessarily have a problem inspecting a rig and giving it a thumbs up, but as a matter of principle I don't like the manufacturer passing the buck down to the rigger.

"Even in a world where perfection is unattainable, there's still a difference between excellence and mediocrity." Gary73

[NovaTTT 1]

I've not inspected them yet, Rob, but obvously they're old gear. One is manufactured in 1978, the other 1979.

Do you have a link to or a copy of the GQSB that recommends 15 years? I'd feel better having a manual or SB that gives a service life recommendation as I would like to have some ducks to line up when I deliver the bad news.

Thanks.

"Even in a world where perfection is unattainable, there's still a difference between excellence and mediocrity." Gary73

[pchapman 261]

The thing is, there is no 150 manual that lists a life. There are plenty of other newer product manuals that do.

If there's a bulletin that specifically lifes the 150, I haven't yet seen it. Correct me if there is one.

Some background info from earlier threads:

Rigger "Mark":

Quote

My pdf packing instructions for EB80, Security 350, 650, 750, 850, 950, and 1050 all specify a life of 10 years for the system. For all but the 1050, the instructions say a factory inspection may result in an extension to 15 years.

When I asked IrvinGQ/AirborneSystems they left things pretty open for the 150 even though they said what they like to see:

Quote

Subject: FW: GQ Security parachutes
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 13:01:56-0000
<[..]@irvingq.co.uk>

Hello Peter

Sorry for the delay. GQ Security was closed in the 1980's after it was
purchased by GQ Parachutes and shipped to the UK very little data exists
within our archive relating to products produced by them or any policies
they operated.

In the days of GQ Security and in common with many US manufacturers the
parachute life is 3 months from new and the lifing is then based on a
qualified rigger inspecting / packing it and certifying it as fit for
use. This info required to inspect / pack is normally found in the
packing manual.

At Irvin-GQ we give a in-service life based on the stressing of the
parachute and subsequently destructive testing. In which case we
recommend on average a total finite life of 10 years with repacks of 180
days. If the parachute is designed for bail out we restrict the life to
one deployment.

[fcajump 153]

Quote

A few years ago there was discussion about service life and SE's position is to leave it to "rigger's discretion". Now I don't necessarily have a problem inspecting a rig and giving it a thumbs up, but as a matter of principle I don't like the manufacturer passing the buck down to the rigger.

On one hand, its always to the rigger's discretion. On the other, I would like a more definitive position from the mfgs. Especially when they have such a wide ranging position on field testing. One canopy mfg requires annual fabric strength testing, another canopy mfg told me face to face that they would be very upset with any rigger that put clamps on their canopies for any reason.

For myself, I've started cutting things off at 20 years. Its what most of the mfgs have said and generally speaking it seems like a reasonable life expectancy.

As to the 15 years, it was my understanding that the EU went to a blanket limit of 15 years on all TSO'ed systems. Maybe someone on the east side of the pond could clarify that for me...

JW

Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

[councilman24 36]

Second manual from the bottom on UKS GQ page, for the 350. See the beginning of Chapter 2. It's actually 15 only with an inspection by the manufacturer at 10.

Other Service notices give 10 years for all British GQ products. Look under notices instead of manuals and you'll find the zig zag and riser cover notices, 416 and 417 I think. There is a handy index about half way down.

Dave's tip... http://paraloft.com/rt_security_closing_loop.htm

Just don't see any advantage to putting my name on these anymore.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[NovaTTT 1]

Quote

Just don't see any advantage to putting my name on these anymore.

Thanks for the info, Peter, Terry & Jim.

As was mentioned earlier, I think the 15 years is a BPA or UK equivalent of the FAA rule. Handsome said the entire EU grounds everything at 15 years.

Of the two Safety Chutes in my loft, the one is certainly not even worth my time to even inspect. The other, however, is in excellent condition so I'm going to take the time to give it a soup-to-nuts inspection and then decide if it's worth any more of my time.

I don't have a problem returning gear unserviced.

But I keep getting this old gear! - like the 1972 Softie that was dropped off today. I just don't see myself working on gear that was manufactured when I was in grade school.

ETA

"Even in a world where perfection is unattainable, there's still a difference between excellence and mediocrity." Gary73

[Beatnik 2]

Quote

I just don't see myself working on gear that was manufactured when I was in grade school.

I am glad that I don't have that problem. Otherwise, I would have to shut down my dynamic museum.

[councilman24 36]

The softie is easy.

Last August Dan T. revised the manual to put a 20 year service life on all Softies. He considers it retroactive and to make any Softie older than 20years illegal to pack and put in the air. Also includes Preserve canopies.

Last I knew he was offering $300 trade in of a complete Softie PEP on a new Softie PEP.

http://www.softieparachutes.com/PDF/SOFTIE%20Owners%20Manual%20Rev%202.0.pdf

Page 10.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[NovaTTT 1]

Jim:

Quote

I am glad that I don't have that problem. Otherwise, I would have to shut down my dynamic museum.

You'd be the saddest rigger known if it weren't for vintage gear! These pilot rigs might be old, but I don't think they're museum quality!

Terry:

Quote

He considers it retroactive and to make any Softie older than 20years illegal to pack and put in the air.

I called for Dan today but he is at the Expo. The info I got, however, is that they (Para-phernalia) want PEPs grounded at 20 years but the TSO remains active - so my understanding is that if it's judged airworthy it's legal to pack it.

Am I missing something or is this correct? Not that this applies to the 1972 Softie (I think they've gotten their money's worth from that purchase!), but I am seeing some older gear that remains airworthy in my judgement despite being at or near the two decade mark.

"Even in a world where perfection is unattainable, there's still a difference between excellence and mediocrity." Gary73

[pchapman 261]

Concerning the issue of changing the rules on older equipment --

In the gliding world there's an interesting fight going on lately. To simplify slightly: One glider manufacturer is in financial difficulty. To fly their gliders, like any certified aircraft, you have to have a copy of the current version of the manual. So now the company is producing a new manual each year, and pricing it at say $500. You don't cough up $500/yr to them, your plane is grounded.

That's where the idea of "you must follow the manufacturer's instructions" starts to break down.

[riggerrob 558]

Funny!
Most of the reputable parachute manufacturers found it less expensive to post manuals on-line.

[masterrig 1]

Quote

Quote

Just don't see any advantage to putting my name on these anymore.

Thanks for the info, Peter, Terry & Jim.

As was mentioned earlier, I think the 15 years is a BPA or UK equivalent of the FAA rule. Handsome said the entire EU grounds everything at 15 years.

Of the two Safety Chutes in my loft, the one is certainly not even worth my time to even inspect. The other, however, is in excellent condition so I'm going to take the time to give it a soup-to-nuts inspection and then decide if it's worth any more of my time.

I don't have a problem returning gear unserviced.

But I keep getting this old gear! - like the 1972 Softie that was dropped off today. I just don't see myself working on gear that was manufactured when I was in grade school.

ETA

I had one glider pilot I packed for, who had a '78 model Security-150. I had told him some time before, I didn't feel comfortable packing it any longer... due to age. He sent that rig to Strong Enterprises and they inspected and re-packed it.


Chuck

[riggerrob 558]

Strong Enterprises is one of the few PEP manufacturers that does not state a specific "age" for their (Para-Cushion) PEPs.

... mind you Strong Enterprises publishes an exhaustive inspection schedule and "lifes" for their tandems.

[masterrig 1]

What surprised me was, the parachute involved was a Security-150.


Chuck

[riggerrob 558]

"

Quote

What surprised me was, the parachute involved was a Security-150.


Chuck

"

.........................................................................

Meaning ... truly ancient!

[masterrig 1]

Quote

"

Quote

What surprised me was, the parachute involved was a Security-150.


Chuck

"

.........................................................................

Meaning ... truly ancient!

Exactly! I told the owner of the PEP when he told me about sending it to Strong, that that would probably be his best bet to do in the future.


Chuck

[councilman24 36]

Quote

[
I had one glider pilot I packed for, who had a '78 model Security-150. I had told him some time before, I didn't feel comfortable packing it any longer... due to age. He sent that rig to Strong Enterprises and they inspected and re-packed it.


Chuck

But AFAIK they wouldn't have packed it if it was their's. Know who the rigger was?

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[riggerrob 558]

When I worked for Butler (1992 and 1993) I suspected that the only reason he allowed faded, frayed and filthy old PEPs into the loft, was a hope that he could sell them a new PEP.
He offered a lot of $50 "courtesy trade-ins."
Hah!
Hah!