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nick.marenakos

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Best value for the $ is a Racer......;):P



that's yet another extremely subjective statement.

wouldn't that depend on what one considers valuable ? ;):P

One may place much more value on having a skyhook, or having a fully articulated harness as opposed to having a two sided RSL and a poptop.

I'm just saying, let's not be too myopic when giving advice. Objectivity helps.

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Likestojump, I have tried Vector, Mirage, Javelin and Wings, all seemed much less comfortable as they do not contour to the back, and all were much much heavier. Also, I didn't like that the reserve pilot chute is behind about 8 flaps on Vector, Mirage, etc., where on the Racer it was right there on top so you dont need any complex sky hook system. Jumpshack also reports something like 48million decents and two fatalities, one suicide and one mis-rigged (I think that was for their tandem)

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Likestojump, I have tried Vector, Mirage, Javelin and Wings, all seemed much less comfortable as they do not contour to the back, and all were much much heavier. Also, I didn't like that the reserve pilot chute is behind about 8 flaps on Vector, Mirage, etc., where on the Racer it was right there on top so you dont need any complex sky hook system. Jumpshack also reports something like 48million decents and two fatalities, one suicide and one mis-rigged (I think that was for their tandem)



I am willing to guess that all those containers were not made specifically for your body type. All the manufacturers out there can make a well fitting harness, but if you are try a rig made for someone who is not your size, it's quite likely you won't find it as comfortable as a harness made for you.

8 flaps ? Get your facts straight. 2 flaps in case of a Javelin/Wings. 4 flaps in case of a Vector. It's just possible that the enclosed/partially enclose PC has a strong spring to compensate for all those flaps that it has to open.

Also, where the hell do you get the facts to substantiate the fact of "needing a skyhook system" ????????? You are missing the point of a skyhook - it's not a solution to reserve PC hesitations - it's a solution to an even better/cleaner deployment of the reserve. For whatever reason, before it became available less than 10 years ago we did not have people going in every day because they were jumping those under-developed rigs that are not functional due to the skyhook band-aid solution.

Only two fatalities on the Racer ?????? I got a tower in Paris I want to sell you.

Get your facts from reliable sources, and stop posting garbage.

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I suppose one thing I should have mentioned is I've narrowed it down to the three Mirage, Infinity, and Vector. Would people mind expressing their opinions on the three containers? Thanks



If I had to choose; I'd get a Micron. I own a Mirage G4, and it's so similar to a Micron, except that the laterals on the G4 are sowed onto the hip rings instead of the MLW. This causes the G4 to lift off the back considerably when in a sit position. Although, I think the G3 does have the laterals sowed onto MLW.



Bzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.
the lateral to MLW junction has an articulation ring if you choose the Unisyn harness (articulated at at top and bottom). The bottom only articulation places the ring below the lateral/MLW junction (identical to the Vector), and choosing no articulation obviously leaves the lateral sewn in the the MLW as well

in a very un-dropzone-like tradition I will back my statement with facts by attaching pictures. Both containers are G4.1



Thanks for clarifying. So anyone looking to get a G4, don't get the lame unisyn harness...hip rings only if you're freeflying.

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A vector with a skyhook is still not as fast as a racer with rsl, all while being more complex and intricate, with more systems to possibly go wrong. As an engineer, I understand that the best solution to a problem is the least complex while still getting the job done. I would never trust my life that low to the ground with a relativly unproven device like sky hook over a proven design like the racer pop-top. Less than 10 years in service with fatalities on record against over 30 years of proven design with less total fatalities.... You are clearly not mechanically inclined.
Also, check the reserve deployment with embedded stopwatch on the Jumpshack website:
2.017 seconds from main to reserve, http://www.jumpshack.com/default.asp?CategoryID=Video%5FGallery

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A vector with a skyhook is still not as fast as a racer with rsl, all while being more complex and intricate, with more systems to possibly go wrong. As an engineer, I understand that the best solution to a problem is the least complex while still getting the job done. I would never trust my life that low to the ground with a relativly unproven device like sky hook over a proven design like the racer pop-top. Less than 10 years in service with fatalities on record against over 30 years of proven design with less total fatalities.... You are clearly not mechanically inclined.
Also, check the reserve deployment with embedded stopwatch on the Jumpshack website:
2.017 seconds from main to reserve, http://www.jumpshack.com/default.asp?CategoryID=Video%5FGallery



Ummmm do you know who Bill Booth is? Go and do your research little one...go along now.

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I would highly suggest getting a container that has the "sky hook" system. Vector 3, and Javelins are the ones that come to mind that have them.



Although none of those combine fun-sized main containers with safe-sized reserves. And you're _much_ more likely to need just a reserve than a more effective RSL.

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A vector with a skyhook is still not as fast as a racer with rsl, all while being more complex and intricate, with more systems to possibly go wrong. As an engineer, I understand that the best solution to a problem is the least complex while still getting the job done. I would never trust my life that low to the ground with a relativly unproven device like sky hook over a proven design like the racer pop-top. Less than 10 years in service with fatalities on record against over 30 years of proven design with less total fatalities.... You are clearly not mechanically inclined.
Also, check the reserve deployment with embedded stopwatch on the Jumpshack website:
2.017 seconds from main to reserve, http://www.jumpshack.com/default.asp?CategoryID=Video%5FGallery



How about you take a read here and take a closer look as well at the video given:

http://www.unitedparachutetechnologies.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=85&Itemid=70

And evaluate again if your pop top + regular RSL is better than the skyhook or is it just blind fanboism..?

Edit: btw skyhook from main to reserve in 1.8 seconds.
"Dream as you'll live forever, live as you'll die today." James Dean

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Likestojump, I have tried Vector, Mirage, Javelin and Wings, all seemed much less comfortable as they do not contour to the back, and all were much much heavier. Also, I didn't like that the reserve pilot chute is behind about 8 flaps on Vector, Mirage, etc., where on the Racer it was right there on top so you dont need any complex sky hook system. Jumpshack also reports something like 48million decents and two fatalities, one suicide and one mis-rigged (I think that was for their tandem)



I am willing to guess that all those containers were not made specifically for your body type. All the manufacturers out there can make a well fitting harness, but if you are try a rig made for someone who is not your size, it's quite likely you won't find it as comfortable as a harness made for you.

And you think my used Racer was tailored specifically for me? It's not perfect, but I found one pretty close. The other rigs I tried were more or less similar in size. LOL.

8 flaps ? Get your facts straight. 2 flaps in case of a Javelin/Wings. 4 flaps in case of a Vector. It's just possible that the enclosed/partially enclose PC has a strong spring to compensate for all those flaps that it has to open.

And my Racer has.... oh, zero flaps. And doesnt need a 60lb spring. I believe its 28lbs. Its hard to ignore my engineering background in this, and the simplist solution that gets the job done is always the best.

Also, where the hell do you get the facts to substantiate the fact of "needing a skyhook system" ????????? You are missing the point of a skyhook - it's not a solution to reserve PC hesitations - it's a solution to an even better/cleaner deployment of the reserve. For whatever reason, before it became available less than 10 years ago we did not have people going in every day because they were jumping those under-developed rigs that are not functional due to the skyhook band-aid solution.

Again, my Racer performs better than a Vector with a skyhook... it doesn't need it, even though I do personally have an rsl on mine.

Only two fatalities on the Racer ?????? I got a tower in Paris I want to sell you.

Yes, on the Racer Tandem. Go look it up

Get your facts from reliable sources, and stop posting garbage.



I believe you should follow your own advice

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Think about it this way, and use the last part of the video you linked (which by the way, did not use a stopwatch of anykind, and only included some times for one opening under set-up circumstances). The Racer reserve will open in the same amount of time with or without an rsl installed. That vector reserve took FOREVER!
This leads me to another point. What of all these fatalities we are hearing about where the AAD fires at 750ft and we see no reserve until about 100 feet above the ground?? If the main canopy on one of those rigs doesnt come out, the reserve is going to have alot of trouble finding its way out, as it is boxed in on all 4 corners. Refer to the Skydiver Advisory thread in the general section of the forums.

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The Racer reserve will open in the same amount of time with or without an rsl installed. That vector reserve took FOREVER!



:D Care to back this statement up with some actual evidence?

God, you're even more prideful, blind fanboy bastard than me lol
"Dream as you'll live forever, live as you'll die today." James Dean

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Haha, may be. Many of you are asking questions that I would think you would know the answers to already.. Or at least know where to find them, so to save me some typing on this fruitless persuit into ignorance (not meant to be insulting in any way), here is the Racer FAQ>>>> lol.
http://www.jumpshack.com/default.asp?CategoryID=TECH&PageID=FAQ&SortBy=DATE_D

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"What type and size canopies?"

Blue Skies!!!



Why does that matter when choosing a rig? To the op, don't listen to this babbling retard. And always be wary of someone that ends a post with "blue skies!" More than likely they're a liberal-Birkenstock wearing-fag


:D
BASE 1384

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I suppose one thing I should have mentioned is I've narrowed it down to the three Mirage, Infinity, and Vector. Would people mind expressing their opinions on the three containers? Thanks



If I had to choose; I'd get a Micron. I own a Mirage G4, and it's so similar to a Micron, except that the laterals on the G4 are sowed onto the hip rings instead of the MLW. This causes the G4 to lift off the back considerably when in a sit position. Although, I think the G3 does have the laterals sowed onto MLW.



Bzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.
the lateral to MLW junction has an articulation ring if you choose the Unisyn harness (articulated at at top and bottom). The bottom only articulation places the ring below the lateral/MLW junction (identical to the Vector), and choosing no articulation obviously leaves the lateral sewn in the the MLW as well

in a very un-dropzone-like tradition I will back my statement with facts by attaching pictures. Both containers are G4.1



Thanks for clarifying. So anyone looking to get a G4, don't get the lame unisyn harness...hip rings only if you're freeflying.



bzzzzzzzzzz... again.

I find that hard to believe that all the people that are currently freeflying are hating the unysin harness as much as you do. I certainly felt it was a good fit and safe when I spent 3 seasons jumps a Mirage G4 with unysin.

Objectivity anyone ?

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What do you expect? You're in a sport started by hippies! ;)

"Yeah, and let me ask my mechanic which car he prefers fixing, then I'll buy that! great idea! You turd. "
AHAHAHAHAHA, so true. Great comparison!



I will something like this in the future for at least one aspect of my next purchase.

(That being my reserve colors - whatever is easiest for my rigger to inspect - example, if he says white reserve with black thread is easiest to inspect and has the lower pack volume for example - NO PROBLEM - the reserve isn't a fashion statement)

Best container? that's the one you find that fits you, your gear and is comfy. I like my Odyssey, and would buy another, but likely the next one will come down to price, features, and delivery time more than brand loyalty.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

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Since according to you I have no engineering background, I will just point out a few things for you, without the credibility that engineering background can give me,

Reserve deployment - it's not enough to have a clean PC launch. You still have to achieve bridle stretch, freebag extraction, line stretch, canopy extraction from the freebag, bottom skin expansion, inflation....

While a poptop PC does give you a cleaner launch, you are still dealing with :
bridle strech - if you read the manual, you will see that the bridle is placed UNDER the sideflaps - just like some other containers. I may as well point out that in a Javelin part the bridle is V-folded right under the reserve PC.
Frebag extraction - gues what ? the freebag is still restricted by those blasted flaps, just like on all the other containers (arguably, the Basic SEVEN is cleaner because it has not sideflaps). Albeit, and I am sure your engineering mind has already thought of that, Racer has less flaps, and the top/bottom flaps are significantly smaller.
From there on, the mechanics of the extraction, inflation, etc are the same as with any container.

So, is this really that different ? Granted, as I said earler, it is claimed I have no engineering background, so my simple mind may just not be able to understand this, so I leave this to the experts.

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I suppose one thing I should have mentioned is I've narrowed it down to the three Mirage, Infinity, and Vector. Would people mind expressing their opinions on the three containers? Thanks



If I had to choose; I'd get a Micron. I own a Mirage G4, and it's so similar to a Micron, except that the laterals on the G4 are sowed onto the hip rings instead of the MLW. This causes the G4 to lift off the back considerably when in a sit position. Although, I think the G3 does have the laterals sowed onto MLW.



Bzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.
the lateral to MLW junction has an articulation ring if you choose the Unisyn harness (articulated at at top and bottom). The bottom only articulation places the ring below the lateral/MLW junction (identical to the Vector), and choosing no articulation obviously leaves the lateral sewn in the the MLW as well

in a very un-dropzone-like tradition I will back my statement with facts by attaching pictures. Both containers are G4.1



Thanks for clarifying. So anyone looking to get a G4, don't get the lame unisyn harness...hip rings only if you're freeflying.



bzzzzzzzzzz... again.

I find that hard to believe that all the people that are currently freeflying are hating the unysin harness as much as you do. I certainly felt it was a good fit and safe when I spent 3 seasons jumps a Mirage G4 with unysin.

Objectivity anyone ?



Not worried about it being a safety problem; it's preference. I don't like anything on my body flying for me, so I certainly don't want a rig floating off my back creating huge amounts of lift. other things like big baggy jumpsuits I don't prefer either.

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"What type and size canopies?"

.........................................................................

The size of canopies and how they relate to the size of the container can make huge differences in ease of packing, comfort while wearing and a small difference in deployment speed.

If we compare early Racers (hint I have been jumping since 1977 and rigging since 1984), then yes, a soft, simple container is easy to pack, is comfortable to wear and will deploy a hair faster.

Unfortunately, during the 1990s, all the container manufactures rushed to pack small reserve canopies into smaller and smaller containers.
The end result was Talon 2, T0s that packed like bricks!
It only took me a year to learn how to pack "stupid tight" Talons.
And it only took me a decade to learn how to pack Racers. Then Cypres was introduced and it took me another five years to learn how to pack Racers containing Cypres (hint: the Racer factory now gives out free ghost loops), now I can close "stupid tight" Power Racers, but it takes every trick I know and all day.
Why anyone would want a reserve that packs as soft as a brick is a mystery to me????

In conclusion, I hate all tight reserve containers!

Rob Warner
FAA Master Rigger
CSPA Rigger Examiner

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