my 1st and last day at the Irish parachute club

[henryrsaff 0]

I had the same problem in the irish parachute club on monday last.We turned up at 9 am only to find out that the porter had crashed the day before and that the only plane being used was a cessna which could hold 4 persons.That was fine problems occure etc so we waited around until 5 when we were told that we would have a free 4000ft hop and pop ok so thats great something free.The problem was that all day we were made to feel like like pieces of s@%t by the woman who was in manifest ,she showed no interest and it was as if we were annoying her .Now we originally thought maybe it was just us but during the day most of the club members (who were rightly complaining about being pushed aside by the tandems) also said she was a moody miserable cow,there words not mine.Everyone else there was helpful and friendly.I asked the woman in manifest most of the day if i could hire a rig but was told that i would get one 10 mins before i jumped,i would have prefered to have had it longer so to get a look at it,and check out any differences.Mick gave me a rig (he was another decent bloke smiling and happy) when the women in manifest told him to (10 mins before jump).
Now when we got to jump it was 745 up we went .I was told to jump 1st so out i got ,when i was stable i pulled.Canopy opened out came the chute all was good or so i thought.I tryed to turn left couldnt,tried to turn right couldnt,problem was i couldnt release the brakes.I pulled and pulled still no good so i put both hands up to the left lines and i turned both hands up to the right lines and i turned but still could not release the brakes.Now i have done only 50 jumps not many and i was always told if you have a problem you cannot rectify then cut away.So i cut ,this was my first cutaway.The reserve opened i turned left turned right and was happy. LANDED SAFELY which i thought was the main thing.When i went over to the hanger i was greeted by a short fat man with a moustache (not sure of his name but i think he is a director etc) he wanted to check my logbook again.Ok so i showed him.He sat on his desk with me in front of him as he thumbed my logbook humming and harring.This went on for 2 mins or so.He then asked me what happened i told him i could not unstow my braked and that i thought i also had a line over.He told me that i didnt have a line over as everyoner on th eground could see me turn left and right.I explained what i had done but he didnt believe me,he said someone witth my number of jumps (50) shouldnt have done what i done!!!! what did i do?? i was in trouble i cut away as i was told in my aff etc. i listened to him question and not believe a word i said for about 2 or 3 minutes i then asked if there was a problem with me jumping there to which he said he didnt like my attitude...my attitude after we had all been treated like crap from the woman in manifest and he had told me he didnt believe me.I told him to stick his skydiving club where the sun dont shine and off i went.All i wanted was to be told what i had done wrong and what i should have done.At only 50 jumps i wouldnt be trying anything like cutting away unless i had to etc. i am still learing so constuctive critisim is surly the order of the day,not to be told im lieing and to have someone treat me like a school boy ( i am 39 years old).
The staff in the canteen were all very nice and the instuctors and memebers all seemed like a good bunch but he was just an ignorant man who has the im god mentallity(so used to people licking upto him)

[yamtx73 0]

quoted word for word from this post before deleting it... http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3206691;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread

From slotperfect: the duplicate post you quoted has been removed

The only naturals in this sport shit thru feathers...

[henryrsaff 0]

Hi.I used my friends log on details by mistake so i deleted the original and reposted under my own name.Sorry for any confusion

[DARK 0]

if you are not just here for a holiday or even if you are and have time then try www.skydiveireland.ie

im very much a beginner but have not heard good things about the ipc so thats were i started jumping i think they got their new airvan last week

[henryrsaff 0]

Hi
no i have lived here for 12 years,and completed my aff in Ocana Spain last october.The difference there was eveyone was so happy and relaxed,there were 3 cutaways when i was there and no one got talked down to or was made to feel like a fool.Most of the peopel at the ipc were fine i had no problem with them just the director whose name i think is cooley or coley because of his attitude,maybe he was having a bad day etc i dont know,but there was no reason for him to take his frustration out on me.All i wanted to do was jump enjoy my day and get home safe.Again if there was a problem with my actions then he should have explain it to me instead of pretty much calling me a lier!

[Lucky123 0]

Did you ever figure out why the brakes would not release? Why did you think you had a line over? Could you see a line over?

[fcajump 153]

Can't speak on the IPC, other than to say everyone can have a bad day...

As to your situation, my basic checks when things aren't quite right:
Is it controlable?
Is it landable? (safely)
Is it going to stay that way?

If so I keep it , otherwise chop.

You were there, not me so I will NOT tell you that you did wrong (or right).

However I would suggest arranging to open high on a few jumps and learn to fly and flare the canopy with the risers only. Do this with brakes stowed, and then again with them both released. You will find that steering and the stall (point and behavour) very different than with toggles, but that with careful application the canopy is very fliable and landable on rear risers*.

*I have been told that this is less true with much smaller canopies, but assuming you are still on larger/conservative canopies.

I had two occasions in my first 30 jumps to land using rear risers (Goliath w/ broken stearing line) and it is a very useful skill.

(I HIGHLY recommend practing the flare high. Some canopies stall suddenly and dramatically on rears.)

JW

Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

[henryrsaff 0]

Hi
yes i did do all the checks and could not steer the canopy,and when it started to spirial to the ground i decided it was time to cut awayAgain all i done was what i was taught in my aff ,that if i didnt feel safe and couldnt rectify the problem then cut.I really think the bloke at the ipc who questioned and didnt beleieve a word i said thought i done it on purpose,which i didnt.All i wanted him to do and thought he was going to do was explain to me any mistakes i had made and tell me what to do in the future.Like i said i am a easy going man who doesnt lose it to offen but when someone who i think should help me starts to basically call me a lier (especially after i have only had my 1st cutaway and the addrenalin is still pumping)then i have every rite to stand up for myself .
I am sure he must have read this and yet still no reply...i wonder why that might be?? maybe he finds it hard to say sorry or he was wrong,if i was wrong fine im sorry and he has my apologies but at least tell me what if anything i did that was so wrong..after all i landed safely isnt that the main thing??
The next time if there is one i will open high up and practice flaring with the risers,but surely that is something you should have to do the same as the aff?maybe it is a course which should follow aff?it seems that as soon as aff is finished no one offers you any more courses in regard to safty.

[raysmullen 0]

im an affi at the ipc . you were told of the situation when you arrieved, we were down our pc6 and the regulars were told there would have free hop and pops for 3 hours when the tandems were finished. yes of course henry you were right to cut away if you even thought you had a malfunction. that was not the problem. it was your attitude to the cci when he questioned you about it. he was just trying to educate you but instead you got the hump up and started to fire abuse at him and the manifester, then you were asked to leave. just for the record you did not have a mal on inspection of the main.there was no line over and no brake lock, one toggle was left perfectly stowed. your problem was you released one toggle and the canopy started to turn. i believed you paniced and cut away. remember your first jump you were told to release both toggles and pump brakes. you should listen to advice from instructors as it might save your life some day. drop the attitude there are enough skygods in the sport

[henryrsaff 0]

Hello and thanks for the reply.i understand that you had a problem with the plane crashing the day before ,as i said in my first post things happen it couldnt be helped no ones fault.
As for attitude i have recieved numerous private emails from members who have told me the manifest womens name is margrete and she gives eveyone a hard time there,i was also told that very few members like her due to the way she speaks to them (maybe she is the skygod you speak of?)
The cci was not trying to educate me if he was i would have taken on board what he said no problem ,but it was his attitude towards me and not believing a word i said,even to the extent of wanting to see my log book again having only had it checked a few hours before.The way he thumbed through the book glancing up at me and then started staring at me .I explained what happened and yet it still seems like you dont believe me!! unbealivable!! I COULD NOT UNSTOW MY BRAKES!! was it my fault? possibley ,but i pulled,i counted i looked up i tryed to release the brakes which i have done 55 times before this with no problem,and they wouldnt release.i then pulled with both hands on the left lines and i turned then on the right lines and i turned.as for one of the brakes being unstowed im sure with the force i was pulling them one of them proberly did come off.
I got the hump?? im sure i did and so would most people,i was pumped up i just had my 1st cutaway what u expect?? then to have someone "not try to educate me" but instead disbelieve me was more than enough,yes i did give out and tell the manifest woman,what i thought of her ,she needed to be told,( but that was after i was told to leave the dz) all day i smiled at her when i asked a question,all day she grimished and looked fed up
I do not panick never have done and if you knew anything about me you would understand that.I didnt cut away straight away, i tryed to rectify the problem and when i couldnt i cutaway then so far from panicking.A skygod me?? i have 50 odd jumps still learning so far from a skygod,i always listen to advice but not abuse,
I still cant work out why the brakes didnt release i done the same as i always done and that is the truth again if i screwed it up im sorry but i should have been treated better afterwards sat down and explained what happened and let have my say.

[DCLK 0]

On my 1st cutaway ( twists everywhere canopy started to spiral downwards, 12th jump) I was unsure if i should have fought it on. At decision altitude I didn't think I could fly it so I cut away. However on the ground I did wonder if I could have gotten out of it.

All of the experienced jumpers, instructors and one of the most experienced people in the country all supported me and said if I was in any doubt i did the best and only thing to do...Reserve Ride.

This gave me untold confidence in so many things; my training, my equipment, my instructors and mentors, the sport itself and finally in myself. I knew then and now that I could reach for the back up, pull it with less fear and it would work.

What we have here is a DZ that is questioning a novice jumper, regardless of his attitude on the ground, on his reserve call. That is not support. In fairness they did give you the slot for free.

Wait til ya get a few hundred jumps, when you are still a novice and then have a cut away....your mates will give you a right ribbing, but that is banter

My advice to you henry, with 50 odd jumps is decide whether you want in to the sport or not, it is too expensive to rent gear forever and this is when you should buy something to keep you going. Then no one can question your actions on your gear. And make sure you get an AAD.....Gods gift to skydivers, and sworn enemy of turbine pilots

[piisfish 135]

was the gear unfamiliar to you ? What gear was the gear you rented from IPC ?

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[jackhackett 0]

The reason why some people were suspicious as to whether you had even fifty jumps or not was that the people in the plane with you saw you bricking it on the climb to altitude and tumbling uncontrollably on exit.

Can't say we're sorry to see the back of you. Try learning some basic social skills. You were the one shouting abuse at people.

[jimmytavino 16]

...well well well

now that we know that ANYone could have a bad day....

visiting jumpers, staff @ a dz, and even regulars @ a dz,,, ( having a porter, and having it unusable)..........


maybe Now , can we all just...????

"give it a fookin' rest..." ?

hahahahahahah....I DO have my I P C bumper sticker... prominantly displayed on My bulletin board.....it's one of my favorites...
jmy T

[BrianSGermain 1]

All I know is, I had a great time there. The weather didn't exactly cooperate, but we had a great time anyway.

Perhaps you just had a bad day.

--Brian

Instructional Videos:www.AdventureWisdom.com
Keynote Speaking:www.TranscendingFEAR.com
Canopies and Courses:www.BIGAIRSPORTZ.com

[henryrsaff 0]

bricking it?? umm what are you on about?? were you there?? no the only 2 people in the plane were myself a jumper who is a member and has 300 odd jumps who seemed to try an take all controll of jump order spotting etc and whos nose was put out of joint when he heard the other jumper (a good friend of mine) had 2500 jumps under his belt.
Where do you get bricking it from lol did i not manifest as soon as i landed ?? does this sound like someone who was bricking it?? some people!!!
AS FOR TUMBLING uncontrollably ...i left the plane and was unstable for 1 roll over or flip so aaa about 3 seconds .

Threat of violence deleted. Your one warning.

[billvon 2,384]

>even to the extent of wanting to see my log book again having only had
>it checked a few hours before.

I can understand that. We once had a guy try to "take his girlfriend through AFF" by falsifying a logbook for her. The manifester originally took a quick look at it and said OK. After we saw what they did in the plane and on exit, we asked to look at it again and things started to not add up.

So if you had some problems on exit, I don't see anything wrong with asking to look at your logbook again.

>as for one of the brakes being unstowed im sure with the force i
>was pulling them one of them proberly did come off.

>i told him i could not unstow my braked and that i thought i also had a line over.

This to me would be a huge warning sign. You didn't know if your other brake was unstowed or not and you weren't sure if you had a lineover? This would, at minimum, require some harness room time to go over identifying malfunctions and dealing with minor canopy problems (like stuck brakes.)

If one brake is released and the other is not, your canopy will turn. Large canopies will not turn fast, but they will turn. You have to counter by pulling on the other brake to keep the canopy flying straight. One way to deal with this is to wrap the other brake line around the riser at its stow position and then grab both risers, capturing the brake line/toggle with your hand. This allows you to steer with risers normally.

>(reply in which you threaten to beat up the instructor)

An instructor notices you have a problem and talks to you about it - and you go off on him, and threaten to beat him up? You may be a nice guy, but the way you are talking here you are coming off as the worst sort of skygod - someone with 55 jumps who can't identify a lineover but starts calling people names when they criticize his actions.

Swallow your pride, listen to people who know more than you - and you might survive to _become_ the guy who one day has to talk to the headstrong new student who has more enthusiasm than experience.

[flyinhi79 0]

Quote

bricking it?? umm what are you on about?? were you there?? no the only 2 people in the plane were myself a jumper who is a member and has 300 odd jumps who seemed to try an take all controll of jump order spotting etc and whos nose was put out of joint when he heard the other jumper (a good friend of mine) had 2500 jumps under his belt.
Where do you get bricking it from lol did i not manifest as soon as i landed ?? does this sound like someone who was bricking it?? some people!!!
AS FOR TUMBLING uncontrollably ...i left the plane and was unstable for 1 roll over or flip so aaa about 3 seconds .

Threat of violence deleted. Your one warning.

I saw you tumbling and I live in Arizona! It was crazy. There were feet flying everywhere

All that matters is your ok. Who gives a shit about anything else. You learned something "maybe nothing" who knows. It sounds like a hurt feelings report should be filed for all parties.

If I were you, I would put my feelings aside go back to the DZ and apologize for the misunderstanding. I think you would be really surprised and will likely make new life-long friends in the process. Who really cares about whether you were right or they were right. I am sure everyone was upset that day. You have a plane down and for a DZ that is a life-line that has been cut and the same plane being down totally screws your day of jumping! It does not surprise me that people were mad.

So calm down and apologize. Bring some pints and maybe a keg. And you will all be laughing in no time. That is what it is all about my friend.

For the record, I think they should apologize as well. I really believe neither one of you were trying to be assholes to each other. You would be surprised at how simple things, if said wrong, can really insult the best of us.

Blue Skies my Friend!

[MagicGuy 0]

Not for nothing, Henry, but you are extremely defensive on here and you are giving some conflicting versions of your own story.

Skydiving is one of those sports where sometimes, you have to suck up your own pride and realize that you may have done something wrong (not the cutaway thing - by all means, you don't think you can land it, cut it away) and listen to the people with more experience.

I'd give the DZ another chance. Apologize, listen to their side of the story and get back in the air.

[spencer 0]

Saw him from Arizona , at last someone with a sense of humor , as for bricking it, I find that remark some what affending, said by someone who has little understanding into what some people go through with low jump numbers,or maybe even gets off on seeing people , to use his words bricking it. we can all say what should have happened or what henry should have done. He cut away a canopy he thought at the time he could not land safely, and landed safely with his reserve, but was made to feel ""humilliated for his actions

[skydiveul 0]

Quote

Saw him from Arizona , at last someone with a sense of humor , as for bricking it, I find that remark some what affending, said by someone who has little understanding into what some people go through with low jump numbers,or maybe even gets off on seeing people , to use his words bricking it. we can all say what should have happened or what henry should have done. He cut away a canopy he thought at the time he could not land safely, and landed safely with his reserve, but was made to feel ""humilliated for his actions

Good point, I've 40 more jumps than henry, and only now am starting to feel more comfortable in the plane,

Very unfair of Mr Hackett to say that about us low jump number people, I trust you are not an Instructor, as I wouldn't like to look to you for confidence and inspiration.

[billvon 2,384]

What does "bricking it" mean?

[mark 102]

Quote

What does "bricking it" mean?

I had to Google it.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=bricking+it

"1. bricking it: When someone is shit scared or in a scary situation, they are going to crap in they're pants.

He was bricking it, before I even took a swing at him.

I was bricking it the first time I went on a plane."

Mark

[billvon 2,384]

>Very unfair of Mr Hackett to say that about us low jump number people . . .

Now that I know what it means, I've seen low experience people that look like that a lot. Nothing against them; everyone gets worried on occasion. As an instructor you have to be able to read that, and it's definitely something I'd look for if there was a new jumper on the plane.

[spencer 0]

What should have happened was thee instructor who checked henrys log book and spoke to him about his experence , remember henry had a 5 month lay off from his last jump, should have insisted henry do a check out jump with a instructor, I am not putting the blame on any one person, just a brake down of DZ procedures.