AggieDave 6 #26 July 1, 2004 Quote The Rigger broke the FAR's by not packing in accourdence with the manufactors instructions. On a tert rig does that really apply, since there'd be a reserve that was packed correctly?--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pilotdave 0 #27 July 1, 2004 You guys are just jealous you can't cut away at 250 feet like us skyhook-equipped jumpers can! Seriously though, I have heard the 80 foot deployment number mentioned. Sounds way too low. Just how much room does it take for a normally packed reserve equipped with a skyhook to open? A 250 foot INTENTIONAL cutaway might be a dumb idea, but how about after a serious canopy collision or something? How high would you need to be to land with an open canopy? Dave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wildblue 4 #28 July 1, 2004 QuoteHow Fucking Stupid. I'll second that. it's like incest - you're substituting convenience for quality Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #29 July 1, 2004 QuoteThe Rigger broke the FAR's by not packing in accourdence with the manufactors instructions. I can't tell from the picture whether he's got a belly-mount or not. If so, and it was packed according to manufacturer instructions, then the point is moot, right? Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #30 July 1, 2004 QuoteOMG.. this doesn't just sound like a stunt performed by a dumbass, this is starting to sound like a pretty serious violation. I've seen nothing yet in this thread to suggest any BSRs or FARs were violated. If the guy had a legally packed tertiary reserve, and he packed the second canopy to open just like his BASE canopy does, then what is the problem? Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #31 July 1, 2004 QuoteWhich BSR would that be? Pack opening altitude. Must go check and see if there is anything on intentional cutaways too.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ianmdrennan 2 #32 July 1, 2004 Agreed. If the Todd from AZ airspeed had, had a skyhook he *MAY* have been in a very different position than he is in today. I'm not advocating this jumpers actions btw. I think it's an unnecessary risk I personally wouldn't be willing to take unless the chips were down and I had no other choice. I am seriously considering a Vector 3 with a skyhook for my next system. Just a thought. Blues, IanPerformance Designs Factory Team Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #33 July 1, 2004 QuoteStupid close? In violation of BSR's close? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Which BSR would that be? QuoteG. Minimum opening altitudes [E] Back to Section 2-1 Contents Minimum container opening altitudes above the ground for skydivers are: 1. Tandem jumps--4,500 feet AGL 2. All students and A-license holders--3,000 feet AGL 3. B-license holders--2,500 feet AGL 4. C- and D-license holders--2,000 feet AGL It was a PLANNED deployment."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flypunk 0 #34 July 1, 2004 From the picture it seems that he has a belly mount either that or a huge beer gut. Now all legalities aside what is the point of the belly mount in this jump???? you really think he stands a chance to use that belly mount if the reserve comes out with a mal? if the skyhook doesnt work? ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #35 July 1, 2004 I agree withh you 1/2 way Ron - he deployed already. I don't think there are any BSR's describing the minimum cutaway altitudes. Technicality, stupidity - what if it didn't work? I have a skyhook - I wouldn't consider doing that unless there were some seriously bizzare circumstances - even then - 2-300 feet AGL - I don't think so.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
genoyamamoto 0 #36 July 1, 2004 QuoteAre calculating the angle of the dangle again, Geno? It's all about the angle of the dangle. Gotta go... plaything needs to spank me Feel the hate... Photos here Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #37 July 1, 2004 QuoteQuoteWhich BSR would that be? Pack opening altitude. Must go check and see if there is anything on intentional cutaways too. There are BSRs applicable to both as follows: Quote2. Pre-planned breakaway jumps are to be made by only class C- and D-license holders using FAA TSO'ed equipment. [E] and QuoteMinimum container opening altitudes above the ground for skydivers are: ... 4. C- and D-license holders--2,000 feet AGL I've seen nothing to indicate the jumper did not have a C or D license, or FAA TSO'ed equipment, or that he did not have an open container by 2,000 feet AGL. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #38 July 1, 2004 Quote agree withh you 1/2 way Ron - he deployed already. I don't think there are any BSR's describing the minimum cutaway altitudes. Technicality, stupidity - what if it didn't work? I have a skyhook - I wouldn't consider doing that unless there were some seriously bizzare circumstances - even then - 2-300 feet AGL - I don't think so. When you don't plan on useing the 1st canopy to land and plan on cutting it away the 2nd canopy becomes the main. Still in violation."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skycat 0 #39 July 1, 2004 QuoteThe skyhook may not work. At that altitude, if the Skyhook had come off the reserve bridle, he may not have had enough altitude. Too risky for me. Derek So you know it's a bad idea when hooknswoop won't do it. Fly it like you stole it! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #40 July 1, 2004 QuoteIn Reply To -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Which BSR would that be? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Pack opening altitude. Must go check and see if there is anything on intentional cutaways too. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- There are BSRs applicable to both as follows: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2. Pre-planned breakaway jumps are to be made by only class C- and D-license holders using FAA TSO'ed equipment. [E] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- and -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Minimum container opening altitudes above the ground for skydivers are: ... 4. C- and D-license holders--2,000 feet AGL -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I've seen nothing to indicate the jumper did not have a C or D license, or FAA TSO'ed equipment, or that he did not have an open container by 2,000 feet AGL. Blues, Dave When you plan on cutting away the first canopy the second becomes your main. Its the canopy you plan on LANDING that counts. Call the USPA or FAA and get their take on it. It was stupid, AND against the BSR's."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #41 July 1, 2004 QuoteI've seen nothing to indicate the jumper did not have a C or D license, or FAA TSO'ed equipment, or that he did not have an open container by 2,000 feet AGL. Either his reserve was considered his main and the chest mount considered his reserve, or the main/reserve was packed illegally, or he broke the BSR for pack opening altitude. Can't have it both ways. SO if he says that his reserve is considered his main with a chest mount reserve, then he opened too low (BSR), if he considers the canopy he chopped his main, then his reserve was packed illegally. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pilotdave 0 #42 July 1, 2004 Maybe he wasn't a USPA member. I can't believe people are so hung up on a possible violation and not amazed that the demonstration. I don't know who's idea it was, but it's a heck of an advertisement for the skyhook if you ask me! It's about equivalent to a jumper allowing their cypres to fire for demonstration purposes. I wouldn't do it, but I'd love to see it done! Whoever it was knew the risk he was taking. Who cares if he violated a BSR? Dave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #43 July 1, 2004 QuoteWhen you don't plan on useing the 1st canopy to land and plan on cutting it away the 2nd canopy becomes the main. . Still in violation. The BSRs don't specify "main" or "primary" parachute deployment, they merely require "container opening". It appears you're reading something into the BSRs that isn't actually printed there. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #44 July 1, 2004 If he violated FAR's thats not really an issue is it? Packing it slider down renders the whole demonstration mute. Removing the slider increased its opening speed dramatically and is unrealistic compared to a real reserve opening. If said jumper would have had a High speed mal the opening of the reserve due to the skyhook cutaway would have probally caused severe damage to the jumper and the gear.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #45 July 1, 2004 QuoteMaybe he wasn't a USPA member He was at a USPA DZ...So he is either a member, or the DZ violated it's GM pledge. QuoteI can't believe people are so hung up on a possible violation and not amazed that the amazing demonstration. I don't know who's idea it was, but it's a heck of an advertisement for the skyhook if you ask me! So I guess it was a good idea? What if he burned it...would it still been a good idea? Stupid shit like that is what is going to bring the FAA down on us. "Lets see, he had a good canopy, but he cut it away at 300 feet to show off?" The Advertisment would have been just as effective if he had done it at 3 grand..."Did you see how fast that opened?" Or if he had dropped a dummy with a skyhook and not risked his life. QuoteIt's about equivalent to a jumper allowing their cypres to fire for demonstration purposes. I wouldn't do it, but I'd love to see it done! Airtec used ot do it WITH A DUMMY....It was cool AND safe. QuoteWhoever it was knew the risk he was taking. Who cares if he violated a BSR? The USPA. The jumpers at the DZ that could have watch a guy burn in for no reason at all. Just casue its cool does not mean it was not stupid."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #46 July 1, 2004 QuoteExactly! I have air-to-air photos of the skyhook working, and a photo where it DID NOT work, as it had been stitched into the rig incorrectly. It's a nifty device, but it is a backup. There's simply no way that RWS approved that stunt. How Fucking Stupid. I agree, the only thing the jumper has proved is that he has the brain power as a bag of rocks. At the very least he violated the rules of common sense. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,384 #47 July 1, 2004 QuoteOr if he had dropped a dummy with a skyhook and not risked his life. But Ron, take a good look at the photo; There *IS* a dummy there!"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Taylor610 0 #48 July 1, 2004 QuoteMaybe he wasn't a USPA member. I can't believe people are so hung up on a possible violation and not amazed that the demonstration. I don't know who's idea it was, but it's a heck of an advertisement for the skyhook if you ask me! It's about equivalent to a jumper allowing their cypres to fire for demonstration purposes. I wouldn't do it, but I'd love to see it done! Whoever it was knew the risk he was taking. Who cares if he violated a BSR? As a former DZO, could I ask that you maybe consider the "impact" (chosen on purpose) that these type incidents ("demonstrations") have on business when they go bad... It was not a smart thing to do, I don't care what kind of rig. When things go bad, and they often do, it is a reflection on the sport. There may have been low time jumpers watching who thought, "that was pretty flippin' cool, I'm gonna give that a try next jump." It's not like those things don't happen either. Hey great pic, great rig, glad it is nothing more than a discussion as to whether it is in violation of a BSR, but it was not cool in my eyes, in anyway, shape or form. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RoysPlayThing 0 #49 July 1, 2004 hmmm... yeah... lets just take a moment to turn our attention to this photograph.. whatcha think?.. hmmm... nice close up, nice colors.. good catch of a scary situation.. great aim, not too blury... yeah, what a good photographer... Its a little blury, okay the colors aren't just right... I was caught by surprise.. okay, I knew what was going to happen, but someone was talking in my ear at the time... Allright fine! Its not that great of a picture, but I at least I got it in frame dammit! _______________________________________________ My mind is like a parachute...it functions only when open. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #50 July 1, 2004 QuoteThe BSRs don't specify "main" or "primary" parachute deployment, they merely require "container opening". It appears you're reading something into the BSRs that isn't actually printed there. You are arguing to be a pain in the neck...Call the USPA and ask them. Container opening...Well I guess that means I could just reach back and flip the little cover flap on my rig as I pass by 2 grand and I could pull my main at 500 feet legaly then huh?....I mena I OPENED my container. Like I said call the USPA"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
