New to sport!! AAD question

[borimex 0]

Greetings to all of you skydivers. My name is Xander and I am new to the sport. I did my first tandem jump in January back in Puerto Rico. I did a second tandem in Mexico just to make sure this was for me and guess what? I LOVE IT! I quickly became addicted to it and tomorrow I'll do my 3rd, 4th and hopefully the 5th level of the AFF training. The first two went really good. Anyways, last time I jumped I noticed the ADD when turned on had a display message that said NOW. I asked my instructor about it and he told me that the date for maintenance was getting close but he told me that I didn't have to worry about it. The thing is that I read somewhere that an ADD could open spontaneously. I'm a little bit worried that it opens my reserve chute while I already have my principal chute open. Is this something that could happen? What does the NOW on the ADD means? If tomorrow I turn on the ADD and it says NOW, should I still jump? Sorry for my english, as you probably noticed its not my first language.

Saludos a todos los paracaidistas hispanohablantes, en especial a aquellos que viven en Guadalajara, MX o en Puerto Rico.

[linebckr83 3]

Welcome! I started with 2 tandems as well, it's a great way to get introduced!

Do you by chance know the brand of AAD? Anymore, every kind is pretty reliable. Many models require servicing every few years during their life. This in no way means there is anything wrong with the unit, it's just a routine safety check. Now it is never guaranteed of course, but I wouldn't let it bother you on your jump. The NOW message does not mean the unit has more or less chance of operating as it was designed to.

If you're curious, have your instructor show you the reserve packing card for the rig. It's a great way to learn about reserves, repacking cycles, etc and it should tell you when servicing is due on the unit. Good luck with your jumps!

"Are you coming to the party?
Oh I'm coming, but I won't be there!"
Flying Hellfish #828
Dudist #52

[billeisele 122]

the AAD is OK, you were reading it upside down, it said MON for Monday, when you first get them you set up the day / date thing, that way the manufacturer knows when it went into service

and they are very reliable (at least some of them), highly recommended (except for the ones that don't work right)

Give one city to the thugs so they can all live together. I vote for Chicago where they have strict gun laws.

[BrianM 1]

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Do you by chance know the brand of AAD?

Sounds like a CYPRES 2. Does it look like this? http://www.cypres-usa.com/cntrl05a.gif

The CYPRES 2 maintenance can be done as much as 6 months before or 6 months after the "maintenance due" date. If the display is indicating maintenance due now, that means it has gone past the maintenance due date by more than the allowed 6 months. This would be considered unairworthy. Depending what country you are in, it could also be illegal.

It is, however, very unlikely that it will cause the AAD to misfire. I would not be too concerned about the AAD. I would be concerned about jumping at dropzone that doesn't maintain their gear properly and tells you not to worry about it.

"It's amazing what you can learn while you're not talking." - Skydivesg

[borimex 0]

First of all thanks everyone for the input.
Actually it is a Cypress 2. I just forgot the name. It looks exactly as the picture in the link above. The instructor told me the same thing, that the ADD needed maintenance soon. But anyways I was just double checking that. About the safety of the DZ... I'm not an expert but I can tell when things are done right. They make me check everything before jumping... The harness, they make me watch as they fold the chute, they make me turn on the ADD, check the pilot, etc. double check that everything is fine, and also I am very curious about everything. One of the instructor has more than 11,000 jumps and the other worked in training for the military. I guess the know what they are doing. Anyways I checked the DZ ratings you have here but that DZ is practically new and is not listed there. It is located in Tototlan, Jalisco, Mexico. Their name is Skydyve Guadalajara. If anyone knows any info about this DZ please let me know. Any other suggestions/tips to take the most of my AFF training? Ohh I almost forgot... The first jump was with two instructors holding me but the second one was only with one of them. Is that supposed to be that way?? They even told me that if everything worked fine they would stop holding m in the air by the 4th or 5th jump. What do you guys think of that? I think I do it pretty well. My previous 2 jumps were really smooth but SECURITY FIRST, I want to know what experienced people think about this!!

[BrianM 1]

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The instructor told me the same thing, that the ADD needed maintenance soon.

That's not the same thing I said, and it's not true. The AAD maintenance is not due soon - it is overdue. It should have been done already!

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About the safety of the DZ... I'm not an expert but I can tell when things are done right.

No you can't. With two tandems and two AFF jumps, you do not have the knowledge or experience to know if things are being done right. Because I am not there, I also can not tell if most things are being done right, but the gear maintenance is NOT being done right! They have 13 months to do the AAD maintenance. The AAD will display a reminder for the entire 13 months, so it should not be a surprise. The AAD is now telling you that the 13 months is over, and that it should not be used until the maintenance has been done.

The fact that they have not bothered to do required gear maintenance for 13 months suggests a poor attitude towards safety. If someone is willing to ignore one safety item, they are probably willing to ignore others. They are also willing to lie to you when you ask questions. That is also a problem.

Everything else might be fine - or it might not. Neither of us knows, but I would be worried.

I will not answer your AFF questions because I am not an AFF instructor. Somebody else will be able to answer better than I can.

"It's amazing what you can learn while you're not talking." - Skydivesg

[CygnusX-1 42]

+1

From the Cypress 2 users guide:

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If the unit enters 6 months before maintenance due date, the maintenance date (next maint. in month / year) will automatically be shown at each selftest. 6 months after the due date the display will change to: ‘next maint. now’.

I would be very concerned about the quality of instruction you are receiving if the instructors are misinforming you about something as simple as the functionality of an AAD. More importantly I would be concerned about what other maintenance issues at that dropzone have been ignored. Is the plane airworthy, etc?

If your concern is about safety, that is not the dropzone for you.

[chutingstar 1]

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What does the NOW on the ADD means? If tomorrow I turn on the ADD and it says NOW, should I still jump?

The NOW that can come up on a Cypres2 does mean that the service is due, but does not necessarily mean it is overdue. You would need to check the DOM of the unit to see if it has actually surpassed the 4 years + 6 months window of when the service is due. The NOW does come up before that window is complete...as well as if you are past that window. The DOM is usually listed on the packing data card and/or can be found through the unit's display during startup.

Mike

ChutingStar.com

[BrianM 1]

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What does the NOW on the ADD means? If tomorrow I turn on the ADD and it says NOW, should I still jump?

The NOW that can come up on a Cypres2 does mean that the service is due, but does not necessarily mean it is overdue. You would need to check the DOM of the unit to see if it has actually surpassed the 4 years + 6 months window of when the service is due. The NOW does come up before that window is complete...as well as if you are past that window.

Wrong. A CYPRES 2 will continue to display the maintenance due date throughout the entire 13 month window. "NOW" means that it has passed the 4/8 years + 6 month period - it is truly due NOW (or rather, it is overdue).

CygnusX-1 quoted the relevant part of the manual in post #7.

"It's amazing what you can learn while you're not talking." - Skydivesg

[linebckr83 3]

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they make me turn on the ADD

Well, I think you can leave that one alone. Your AAD however, I'd make sure its on

But what do I know, listen to your instructors first

"Are you coming to the party?
Oh I'm coming, but I won't be there!"
Flying Hellfish #828
Dudist #52

[chutingstar 1]

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Wrong. A CYPRES 2 will continue to display the maintenance due date throughout the entire 13 month window. "NOW" means that it has passed the 4/8 years + 6 month period - it is truly due NOW (or rather, it is overdue).

CygnusX-1 quoted the relevant part of the manual in post #7.

The manual does not always tell the whole story. Units inside the window will show NOW. I believe it is in the last month that it is due. We have had this issue come up before at our loft and at our drop zone. After looking back at the DOM, we found that the NOW did come up just before it was "overdue."

On Monday, someone on here can call Airtec or SSK to verify. Or maybe I can find one of those units at those parameters in our shop this weekend.

Mike

ChutingStar.com

[chutingstar 1]

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From the Cypress 2 users guide:

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If the unit enters 6 months before maintenance due date, the maintenance date (next maint. in month / year) will automatically be shown at each selftest. 6 months after the due date the display will change to: ‘next maint. now’.

And I think this is where we found units that are still "airworthy" but still showing "NOW." The manual you are quoting states at "6 months after the due date," which ends up being that last month where it is still technically in the window.

I can verify with Airtec and SSK on Monday, be we've had a couple of units come up with the NOW...and then calculated the plus 6 months, and found it in the last month of the window. So it is possible to show the NOW, but still be useable. You would have to check the DOM of the unit to know for sure.

Mike

ChutingStar.com

[borimex 0]

Wooooa! Well today is the day, I'm just about to leave to the DZ. The NOW message was displayed about a month ago and I haven't jumped since so the conclusion about this issue is that I will check the status of the ADD before jumping and if I still see the the NOW message then that's a bad sign for me. If they are a good DZ they should already have done the necessary maintenance. If not, I'm screwed because that's the nearest DZ around were I am.
Wish me luck!!! What I'm going to do is that I'm going to take a PICTURE of the entire gear and I'll upload it when I get back.
Thanx everyone!!

[IanHarrop 37]

Listen to this guy... he is the kind of expert you can trust.

Read his post, its right above yours

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3813981#3813981

"Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy

[BrianM 1]

Fair enough, Mike. I'll wait until we hear from Airtec/SSK.

"It's amazing what you can learn while you're not talking." - Skydivesg

[borimex 0]

Well guys I jumped and everything went really smooth. They changed the ADD for the parachute I use. It was a Cypress 2 before but they changed it to another ADD, I sincerely dont know the brand, I just know it said NOVICE after turned on. I did my 3rd and 4th AFF jump and in the 4th one the instructor let me go in the air and I went all by myself. It was an awesome feeling. Thanks god I was able to maintain a good position and the opening went really smooth... No hard openings or line twists. Anyways I was so relieved when I saw they changed the ADD. I did my 1st and 2nd AFF about February 5th and by yesterday they had already changed the ADD, lucky for me I found a great DZ here in Mexico... I asked the instructor about the other ADD and he told me that since it turned the NOW they immediately replaced it to give it maintenance. So after all they didn't lie to me and they did it. I felt really safe yesterday because my main chute was folded not by the people who normally do but by the instructor and he is the one certified to fold the reserve parachute... probably the one with the most experience there... Well guys any advice, tip, suggestion will be greatly appreciated!!!

[BrianM 1]

Could have been a Vigil: http://www.vigil.aero/files/images/gallery/IMG_8505.JPG

Or an Argus: http://www.argus-aad.com/images/stories/product_pic.jpg

Good to hear that they have taken care of it.

Congratulations on your jumps. It sounds like you are doing well. Glad you are having fun!

"It's amazing what you can learn while you're not talking." - Skydivesg

[linebckr83 3]

Awesome keep it up! And by the way, it's called an AAD not ADD. It stands for "Automatic Activation Device"

"Are you coming to the party?
Oh I'm coming, but I won't be there!"
Flying Hellfish #828
Dudist #52

[marcantonio152 0]

I'd just like to add that just because a student's AAD is past its maintenance date doesn't mean that the dropzone is bad or unsafe. If a dropzone has 20 student rigs and all of their AADs go out of date at once, paying for every one of them to be maintained and having 20 student rigs out of service at one time could be pretty near impossible.
With a Cypres, getting the maintenance or the battery done late does not extend the life of the AAD. Your dropzone knows this. There must be maintenance done twice and a battery change done a few times... I think three? It's just a matter of getting a rigger to take the AAD out, send it off, and get it back and install it. Most likely they were trying to wait until the last possible moment in order to repack the reserve and do the most cost-efficient thing!

The bad thing is when you run across a dropzone using FXCs for their students... it's impossible to tell when those things are due for maintenance / calibration unless you open up the reserve compartment. I bought my first rig from a guy who had jumped it for two years and had it packed regularly, but when my master rigger (Ben Crowell) opened it up, he found that the FXC had needed calibration for 10 years! I'm not posting the rigger's name who packed it, but he's the rigger of a dropzone that I've jumped at... I don't want to know how many of their student rigs haven't been maintained and packed properly.
However, I know that they're a safe dropzone! The gear works. I've seen those AADs fire properly. I saw one that fired properly, and when I went and looked at the rig I saw it was well out of date. The rigger understands that the required maintenance is mainly a way for the manufacturers to guarantee a cash inflow. The reason I call them safe - with all of my jumping experience and masterful knowledge of rigging (sarcasm) - is that I see the way they taught students and the recommendations they gave to me.

I'm now required to quit skydiving by the US Navy

[BrianM 1]

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If a dropzone has 20 student rigs and all of their AADs go out of date at once, paying for every one of them to be maintained and having 20 student rigs out of service at one time could be pretty near impossible.

Here are three different ways to deal with this:

1. Buy AADs with different DOMs so the maintenance dates are staggered.
2. You have 13 months to do the maintenance, so even with the same DOM, you can do the maintenance a few (or even one) at a time.
3. Use the four years between maintenance dates to save up for the maintenance - since you know it is coming!

"They're all due at once and we can't afford it" is no excuse.

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There must be maintenance done twice and a battery change done a few times... I think three?

CYPRES 1 needs batteries every 2 years or 500 jumps, whichever comes first. Battery can be changed by any rigger, no need to send anything away.

CYPRES 2 gets the battery changed only at the 4 year and 8 year service, no other battery changes required.

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The bad thing is when you run across a dropzone using FXCs for their students... it's impossible to tell when those things are due for maintenance / calibration unless you open up the reserve compartment.

Same with the CYPRES 1 (and possibly earlier CYPRES 2's?).

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However, I know that they're a safe dropzone!

Yeah, we don't maintain our student gear, but don't worry, we're safe! Honest! We're just taking shortcuts to save money. Really, everything's fine! These are not the droids you're looking for!

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The gear works. I've seen those AADs fire properly.

Yes, unmaintained gear can, and usually will, work. Doesn't make it a good idea.

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The reason I call them safe - with all of my jumping experience and masterful knowledge of rigging (sarcasm) - is that I see the way they taught students and the recommendations they gave to me.

You mean recommendations like not maintaining your gear to save a buck?

"It's amazing what you can learn while you're not talking." - Skydivesg

[Bertt 0]

There's another issue besides cost here. If a rig has an AAD, which is a requirement for students, it's a violation of FAA regs not to maintain the AAD according to manufacturer's recommendations.

You don't have to outrun the bear.

[labrys 0]

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There's another issue besides cost here. If a rig has an AAD, which is a requirement for students, it's a violation of FAA regs not to maintain the AAD according to manufacturer's recommendations.

I don't think the FAA has much to say about what happens in Mexico.

Owned by Remi #?

[Bertt 0]

marcantonio152 is in Alabama, but you make a good point.

You don't have to outrun the bear.

[linebckr83 3]

marcantonio isn't the jumper who experienced the out of date AAD's. The OP did, and he's in mexico.

"Are you coming to the party?
Oh I'm coming, but I won't be there!"
Flying Hellfish #828
Dudist #52

[marcantonio152 0]

Actually, when I bought my first rig (from a dropzone that had used it as student gear) a master rigger (Ben Crowell) opened it up and found that the FXC had been due for maintenance for 12 years and the reserve didn't have a TSO on it - no warning label, nothing. That ripped all of my faith out of that dropzone. Had to shell out 160 bucks to FXC and 200 bucks to a guy who had an old glidepath firelite reserve.

I'm now required to quit skydiving by the US Navy