J-Rock 0 #1 March 5, 2010 I have one complete MC4 and another with all the parts and pieces, just no canopies... Are there any alternatives i can use instead of the the 370's? OR has anyone packed something different in an MC4 and how well did it work. I do have a line set and have though of relining a canopy with cut lines, only problem is finding one that hasnt been drug across a parking lot. Thanks in advance, J-Rock Im gonna need a bigger hammer.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kenneth21441 0 #2 March 5, 2010 Personally I would just walk away from this. Dont even think of doing it as it would cost you alot of $$ just to get it done and then would you trust it. So walk away. If its not right, its not. Just my two cents here. Being a Rigger and owner of a complete MC4. Kenneth Potter FAA Senior Parachute Rigger Tactical Delivery Instructor (Jeddah, KSA) FFL Gunsmith Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anvilbrother 0 #3 March 5, 2010 I have a mint condition mc-4, and was wondering WHEN the main gets worn out, what COULD fit in there. I called Paraflite, and other mfg, and no one could cite a pack volume for the main d-bag and container...ooh well Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
J-Rock 0 #4 March 5, 2010 Maybe that should have been the question... Anyone know the pack volume of a 370? I would think you could put just about any large 7 cell in the main container but I'm sure the reserve is a different question. Im gonna need a bigger hammer.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #5 March 5, 2010 QuoteMaybe that should have been the question... Anyone know the pack volume of a 370? I would think you could put just about any large 7 cell in the main container but I'm sure the reserve is a different question. Thats going to vary based on which manufacturer and the method they use to determine pack volume (old dead horse topic, I know). Having packed more than my share of MC-4 canopies from brand new out of the plastic to dogged out and tired, I think it's safe to say that most comparable sized or slightly smaller tandem canopies will fit in the MC-4 deployment bag. My Tandem 350 sq ft canopy folds up close to the same size. I seem to recall one DZ.commer replaced the issue D bag and used a civilian D bag assembly that used a 280 Sq Ft civilian canopy. Anyone recall that?"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peek 20 #6 March 5, 2010 QuoteI have a mint condition mc-4, and was wondering WHEN the main gets worn out, what COULD fit in there. I called Paraflite, and other mfg, and no one could cite a pack volume for the main d-bag and container...ooh well This is an educated guess, but I imagine a Flight Concepts ZP Manta 320 (zero porosity) would be close. Pack volume 675. http://flightconceptsint.com/zp-main/zp-manta FYI: The old name for the non-zero porosity canopy this size was the Man-o-War, then they started using just the name Manta with the size. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
heavydude 0 #7 March 5, 2010 I am not a rigger(yet, working on it) but I jumped an MC4 at Perris with Navigator 280 in it as student. Worked OK to me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
J-Rock 0 #8 March 6, 2010 Thanks for the suggestions guys, Ive been looking around and it seems like some of those canopies would work, the canopies in my MC-4 are fairly new and when I pack it in cold air you literally have to stand on the container to get it closed. Having said that Im sure something smaller or even ZP with Dacron lines should work, maybe something like a navigator you mentioned. Now... anyone out there have a 370 reserve? I have a brand new line set and a master rigger nearby. Im gonna need a bigger hammer.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anvilbrother 0 #9 March 6, 2010 Put a want ad in the classifieds for an airworthy RESERVE for mc-4 container. There are plenty out there, just getting in touch with the right person is key. Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #10 March 6, 2010 Quote anyone out there have a 370 reserve? I have a brand new line set and a master rigger nearby. The reserve canopy on the MC-4 is the same as the main canopy, no difference. In fact, the canopy rotation is to move the reserve to the main and install a new canopy into the reserve container when a main canopy wears out or meets the life cycle replacement date. This is in part due to the shelf life that the Army has on canopies based on mfgr date. However, there is no difference , the MC-4 reserve canopy is the same as the Main canopy and are interchangeable as they are identical. This is also done in part so that if a jumper has a reserve ride, the reserve canopy has the exact same performance characteristics as the main. This is especially important due to the additional equipment the jumper may be carrying as well as on HAHO/cross country jumps where the individual would need to stay with the group as much as possible following a reserve deployment."It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ScotchLead 0 #11 March 7, 2010 You have just found the "right person", in fact its a group of Right Persons. We operate the National Parachute Test Center and are slowly coming out of the Closet after >20 years of operation at the same undisclosed location. We have and maintain the MT-1XX, MT-1XS, MC-4 & MC-5. The canopies are all the same Lissaman 7808 profile. The S canopy is a 260, 5 cell, while the X, 4 & 5 are 360, 7 cell canopies. Additionally, we have incorporated P/Ds MS-360, an elliptical 9 Cell, in the MC-4 system with outstanding results. I would be happy to quote parts and availability for any system or parts thereof.Scotch Lead National Parachute Test Center Life has it Highs & Lows Mine are 44,100 & 300 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anvilbrother 0 #12 March 7, 2010 Amazing!! Thanks for the heads up this is gonna make alot of big boys happy :) Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #13 March 7, 2010 QuoteWe have and maintain the MT-1XX, MT-1XS, MC-4 & MC-5. The canopies are all the same Lissaman 7808 profile. The S canopy is a 260, 5 cell, while the X, 4 & 5 are 360, 7 cell canopies. Additionally, we have incorporated P/Ds MS-360, an elliptical 9 Cell, in the MC-4 system with outstanding results. The MT-1S is a 270 sq ft 5 cell with a 270 lb All up weight. The X, 4 and 5 are 370 sq ft 7 cell canopies with an all up weight of 360 lbs. The MS-360 is the Military Silhouette made by PD and is what is used in the Military Javelin (MJ). Despite it having a higher all up weight and being a 9 cell, it is only slightly better performance wise over the MC-4 canopy in that the landing characteristics are improved and it has a very slight improvement on L:D with a 2.6 to 1. It's so negligible that for HAHO's both the MC-4 and MS-360 are capable of the same amount of stand off based on all of the testing that I have been involved with for the past several years. Unlike the MC-4 , the MJ reserve is not the same as the main and has even less performance than the MS-360. As far as I know, the MS-360 is not made available for sale outside of the military/Government."It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SEREJumper 1 #14 March 7, 2010 QuoteThe reserve canopy on the MC-4 is the same as the main canopy, no difference. The reserve has a different control line length than the main. Probably not a big deal if it was switched to a main without replacing them, but they are different.We're not fucking flying airplanes are we, no we're flying a glorified kite with no power and it should be flown like one! - Stratostar Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
divnswoop 0 #15 March 7, 2010 Quotebased on all of the testing that I have been involved with for the past several years. I would like to see those reports. Your findings are quite a bit different than what I hear/ read from the USSOCOM community. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #16 March 7, 2010 QuoteQuoteThe reserve canopy on the MC-4 is the same as the main canopy, no difference. The reserve has a different control line length than the main. Probably not a big deal if it was switched to a main without replacing them, but they are different. Yes, that is correct but the canopy is the same. You would have to make adjustments to the control line to compensate for the different reserve/main riser lengths."It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #17 March 7, 2010 QuoteQuotebased on all of the testing that I have been involved with for the past several years. I would like to see those reports. Your findings are quite a bit different than what I hear/ read from the USSOCOM community. I base my above statement on my first hand experience of jumping all of the mentioned canopies on the same loads, some jumping MC-4s, some the MS-360 on both HALO and HAHO jumps ( slick, combat equipment, O2, Night combat equipment O2). The MS-360 is an improvement over the MC-4 but most of that is in handling and forgiveness of jumper error and an increased all up weight. As far as the stand off performance goes, the increase in performance is so slight that it's negligible for planning purposes."It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #18 March 9, 2010 QuoteMaybe that should have been the question... Anyone know the pack volume of a 370? This just in: Pack volume for the MC-4 is 1063 cu in. These numbers were derived from the “official” PIA volume chamber test as performed by Sandy Reid. Take note that there are slight deviations to that number in either direction based on the condition of the specific canopy in question."It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anvilbrother 0 #19 March 10, 2010 You sir are the MAN! Thanks Thanks Thanks Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
