Reserve Decision

[JovialChris 0]

I'm grappling with a reserve canopy selection decision. Would rather jump a smaller infinity container w a Paratec 170 (much smaller pack volume) over a larger infinity container w a PDR 176. Paratec has an opening shock rating of 172 mph, no worries there but it is marketed as flying like a 2nd main.

My question would be.. if unconscious under a single reserve canopy.. what would the flight charachteristics be for each.. nominal diff? In general for a 1.2:1 loading.. what would the safest reserve on the market be for an unconscious landing? Thoughts? or is it a moot point given the ground collision factor?

Couldn't really find any posts addressing this angle.

JovialChris

I'm Lost! Which way to the Prairie?

[parachutist 1]

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I'm grappling with a reserve canopy selection decision. Would rather jump a smaller infinity container w a Paratec 170 (much smaller pack volume) over a larger infinity container w a PDR 176. Paratec has an opening shock rating of 172 mph, no worries there but it is marketed as flying like a 2nd main.

My question would be.. if unconscious under a single reserve canopy.. what would the flight charachteristics be for each.. nominal diff? In general for a 1.2:1 loading.. what would the safest reserve on the market be for an unconscious landing? Thoughts? or is it a moot point given the ground collision factor?

Couldn't really find any posts addressing this angle.

Aspect ratio is one factor that will affect how the canopy flies with an unconscious jumper. For a very square (low aspect ratio) reserve, if the passenger is slumped to one side the canopy will have less of a tendency to start spiraling in hard than if it were a high aspect ratio canopy. So I'd probly go with the lowest aspect ratio canopy if unconsious scenario is your concern.

I just checked Paratec's page & didn't find AR listed, PD however lists it as 2.1:1 for the PDR 176:
http://www.performancedesigns.com/products.asp?product=pr

And of course wing loading plays a role too. The bigger the canopy, the better, would be a general rule I'd use for unconscious jumper.

[pchapman 261]

Companies don't publish airspeed and descent rate data, whether for full flight or in brakes. So unless someone is really really familiar with both canopies, who knows. Without other details, one can only guess bigger is better. (I don't know if the Paratec Speed is measured the PIA way or PD way. The PIA way, the PD 176 comes out to 189 by one published set of measurements.)

[davelepka 4]

***Would rather jump a smaller infinity container ***

This should have nothing to do with your gear buying decision. The difference in rig size between the two reserevs would be very slight, and nobody will ever notice one from the other. People aren't checking out your gear that closely, and you can't even see your rig, so it's a shitty way to choose a reserve.

I'm not sure if you'r ever seen a landing with no flare, but the one's I've seen have been brutal, and they were all students on 280 sq ft Navigators. If you really want to plan on a no-flare landing, you should start with a much bigger reserve.

I vote for the PD reserve. At least then you can call the factory and speak to someone in english and if you need to send it in for service, it only has to go to Fla, instead of Germany.

[superstu 0]

In my honest opinion PD makes THE best reserves and the only ones i'd buy. i've been fortunate enough to fly a lot of different canopies, including reserves, and they are above and beyond anything else i've tried.

Like Dave said it's not exactly the piece of equipment you want to skimp on or buy to make yourself look "cooler", it's there as your last line of defense and personally i want the best over my head.

sorry if that sounds like a sales pitch but i am very adiment about reserves due to the nature of our sport and seeing some really fucked up things through out my time jumping. hope that helps

by the way if you see tyson or todd at snohomish tell them Stuart says hi, haven't talked with those guys in a long time but that's where i started.

Slip Stream Air Sports
Do not go softly, do not go quietly, never back down

[superstu 0]

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no worries there but it is marketed as flying like a 2nd main.

also, this isn't always a good thing cause if the reserve flies like a diablo then you could be in a world of hurt.

Slip Stream Air Sports
Do not go softly, do not go quietly, never back down

[kkeenan 13]

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Paratec has an opening shock rating of 172 mph...

Sorry to sound ignorant, but what is an "opening shock rating" ?

Kevin K.

_____________________________________
Dude, you are so awesome...
Can I be on your ash jump ?

[Skydivesg 6]

also, this isn't always a good thing cause if the reserve flies like a diablo then you could be in a world of hurt.
*************************

Even better would be the Nova........

Be the canopy pilot you want that other guy to be.

[JovialChris 0]

Supposedly the canopy could open up at a speed of 172 mph w/o sustaining significant damage.

Appreciate everyone's input and a hello from Stu is in order. I was jumping an Infinity 1-33 w/ a Sam136 and PDR 143 because I was thinking of downsizing my main at a future date. This was the only container size option for this circumstance. Now that my rig was ripped off and I'm approaching 50, I suppose it would be prudent to go with the bigger container and reserve. Probably stick w the Sam 136.

The reason I brought all this up was because I was in fact almost knocked unconscious by a camera flyer going through the learning curve on a RW 8-way. He got over my burble and I sucked him down... hard collision came out of nowhere. You never know what could happen on a skydive....

JovialChris

I'm Lost! Which way to the Prairie?

[dule_savic 1]

hello
About the Paratec Speed reserve: it's fun to fly, easy to land and it packs one size smaller. I'm glad I have it. Definitely a good canopy!

[mjosparky 3]

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My question would be.. if unconscious under a single reserve canopy.. what would the flight charachteristics be for each.. nominal diff? In general for a 1.2:1 loading.. what would the safest reserve on the market be for an unconscious landing? Thoughts? or is it a moot point given the ground collision factor?

This is what all TSO’s reserve/emergency canopies are test to.

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4.3.7 Rate of Descent Tests, All Types:

There shall be not less than 6 drops, with an individual and/or dummy in each harness weighing not less than the maximum operating weight4. The average rate of descent shall not exceed 24 ft/s (7.3 m/s), and the total velocity shall not exceed 36 ft/s (11.0 m/s), in an unaltered post deployment configuration, corrected to standard sea level altitude conditions. The rate of descent measurement shall be taken over a minimum interval of 100 ft (30.5 m). These tests
may be combined with other tests in this section.

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Supposedly the canopy could open up at a speed of 172 mph w/o sustaining significant damage.

I don’t know where you got the 172 mph from but the minimum test speed is 180 KEAS which come out to around 207 mph.

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4.3.4 (Continued):

a. Test weight = Maximum operating weight limit x 1.2
b. Test speed = Maximim operating speed limit x 1.2

However, test weight must be not less than 264 lb (119.7 kg) and the test speed must be not less than 180 KEAS (333.4 km/h) for reserve and emergency parachute assemblies; for dual harness parachute assemblies for test weight must not be less than 480 lb (217.7 kg) and the test speed must not be less than 210 KEAS (388.9 km/h).

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Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[pchapman 261]

The 172 mph must have been the 150 kt certification limit. And 150*1.2 = 180 for the testing.

In any case the certification descent rates and total velocity can be pretty high, and no data are published for speeds at max weight, so one can't even extrapolate down to lower weights.

[freeflygirlz 0]

my personal opinion: PD reserves are the best.
I don't know enough about the PD optima, but I would definitly think about buying one if I had the choice