AIRCRAFT EMERGENCY PROCEDUREs FOR SKYDIVING

[DON321 0]

im still pretty new to this sport only with 38 jumps, but often find myself wondering on my way up to altitude, what would i do if the plane had a problem... i was taught by my instructor (Ed Pawlowski, who happens to be an awsome teacher who never really stops teaching you even after signing you off to jump unsupervised.) durring my AFF training to follow his instruction durring an emergency pull reserve if low and pull main if your high, but what about other variables? im an aircraft pilot as well (still have low hours but i fell like i know what im doing up there)
somebody hits the tail on exit? do you exit still to get out of the plane that has a slight problem?

plane stalls? your at the back (last to exit) what do you do?

plane loses an engine or engines? do you jump out still to help get rid of some weight so pilot can hopefully make it back to airport on glide?

im sure you would look toward the pilot in command to make the choice but he may be busy trying to fly the plane in an emergency,i guess i should probably ask my instructor these questions, He explained alot about aircraft emergencys, but i guess the few question i have left i just need knowledge on.. has anyone had any of these situations??

[diablopilot 2]

Well for starters, when you are behind the controls, what's your title?

PIC or Pilot in Command.

So as a parachutist in a jumpship emergency, you follow the instructions of the PIC.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[DON321 0]

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Well for starters, when you are behind the controls, what's your title?

PIC or Pilot in Command.

So as a parachutist in a jumpship emergency, you follow the instructions of the PIC.

Yeah, I totally agree, Folow direction from PIC, but I guess id rather know what to do to be ready than to wait and figure it out while its happening

[billvon 2,396]

Depends.

Plane has a problem at 1000 feet? Remain seated, seat belt and helmet on, and await instructions.

Plane has a problem above 2000 feet, especially with the door open? Remain in place, be prepared to exit, await instructions from the pilot.

Plane has a problem after the exit command has been given - say on jump run around the time the green light goes on? Generally better to follow the plan and exit, but do so rapidly and without crowding the door.

Plane has a problem and the pilot leaves the aircraft? Probably best to follow him.

Under no conditions should one "rush the door." If the exit instruction is given, then exit single file as rapidly as possible without crowding near the door.

[diablopilot 2]

Good idea. Here's a start.

ALWAYS be ready to skydive when you get on the airplane. Now this may sound self evident, but you'll be surprised how many you'll see in your skydiving life, that are not. Either through getting on with unprepared gear (i.e. legstraps loose), or through a mindset of unpreparedness.

Now as to emergencies, listen to the pilot's instructions, and do what you can to prevent them.

Engine failure: Without fire, it's probably not that big a deal if at a jumpable altitude. Wait for the pilot's exit command. If it's below about 1000ft/or the altitude you'd be willing to exit on your reserve, you should still have a seatbelt on.

Stalls: If it's on departure, your pilot really screwed up. You probably won't have time or altitude to exit. The only things you can do to help are preventative really. Load the aircraft within it's weight and gravity limits, and wear your seatbelt till at a safe to exit altitude to minimize the shift of CG in an unusual attitude.

Major fire, or structural failure: Well, try not to let the pilot beat you out the door.

Note that if the pilot orders an exit, everyone should comply in a smooth and orderly manner, exiting one at a time, and reducing any major weight shifts. DO NOT climb out your dirt dived 8 way. (See it done.)

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[butlerhr 0]

Follow the pilot's instructions so that you don't cause more problems for the pilot by doing things that are not expected. You can make things a lot worse for the pilot by causing shifts in CG or asymmetric drag (by opening the door) to name a couple.

[happythoughts 0]

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Good idea. Here's a start.

ALWAYS be ready to skydive when you get on the airplane. Now this may sound self evident, but you'll be surprised how many you'll see in your skydiving life, that are not. Either through getting on with unprepared gear (i.e. legstraps loose), or through a mindset of unpreparedness.

Agreed. Legstraps and cheststraps off/loose too often.

If the plane is at 3,000 ft and the pilot says "exit", there is no time to gear up.

[JohnDeere 0]

The only thing i can add to what has been said is be ready to skydive at all times. I have my helmet on my head or chest stap at all times. I am always ready to exit!!!!!!!!. I have been in an engine out situation. Single engine caravan, and it was at about 8,000 FT. Just wait for exit comand,

Nothing opens like a Deere!

You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers!

[mrwrong 0]

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DO NOT climb out your dirt dived 8 way. (See it done.)

Does it even exist such stupidity????


Well the main thing is this....
The pilot is always in charge while being in the aircraft, and the pilot alone decides if one should get the f**k out or not.
We have an intercom for the jumpmaster - pilot communication and this is a really good solution.

I was told a funny, (since all ended well), story from a couple of years before my jumping days begun.
Our club had rented an AN-2 due to service on our regular aircraft.
None of the jumpers were rally familiar with this type of aircraft.
While ascending to jump altitude the engine suddenly went dead, and the pilot realized that he had forgot to turn the carburetor heater on and that was the reason. So he turned it on and restarted the engine.
When he turned his head to tell that all was under control the entire 'load' was gone.
As soon as the motor went silent the JM opened the door and gave the exit command.

They had a hard time finding everybody who landed (far) out. The only one who didn't land out was the pilot

This is a classical example that the pilot - JM communication is extremely important.

(pardon all the incorrect spelling and grammar)

“The sum of intelligence on the planet is a constant; the population is growing.” - George Bernard Shaw
He who dies with the most toys, wins.....
dudeist skydiver # 19515
Buy quality and cry once!

[format 0]

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I was told a funny, (since all ended well), story from a couple of years before my jumping days begun.
Our club had rented an AN-2 due to service on our regular aircraft.
None of the jumpers were rally familiar with this type of aircraft.
While ascending to jump altitude the engine suddenly went dead, and the pilot realized that he had forgot to turn the carburetor heater on and that was the reason. So he turned it on and restarted the engine.
When he turned his head to tell that all was under control the entire 'load' was gone.
As soon as the motor went silent the JM opened the door and gave the exit command.

They had a hard time finding everybody who landed (far) out. The only one who didn't land out was the pilot

This is a classical example that the pilot - JM communication is extremely important.

I propose a nomination for "The best post in 2008", so far

What goes around, comes later.

[mrwrong 0]

Thanx

It's just a classical example of to much thinking a little to fast from one individual.
But if the JM would have followed procedure I wouldn't have a good story to tell

“The sum of intelligence on the planet is a constant; the population is growing.” - George Bernard Shaw
He who dies with the most toys, wins.....
dudeist skydiver # 19515
Buy quality and cry once!

[flyinhi79 0]

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I was told a funny, (since all ended well), story from a couple of years before my jumping days begun.
Our club had rented an AN-2 due to service on our regular aircraft.
None of the jumpers were rally familiar with this type of aircraft.
While ascending to jump altitude the engine suddenly went dead, and the pilot realized that he had forgot to turn the carburetor heater on and that was the reason. So he turned it on and restarted the engine.
When he turned his head to tell that all was under control the entire 'load' was gone.
As soon as the motor went silent the JM opened the door and gave the exit command.

They had a hard time finding everybody who landed (far) out. The only one who didn't land out was the pilot

This is a classical example that the pilot - JM communication is extremely important.

I propose a nomination for "The best post in 2008", so far

I second that nomination!
I would imagine the pilot was thinking "shit where the hell did everyone go? I mean, I swear I had people on board, didn't I??? "

[happythoughts 0]

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When he turned his head to tell that all was under control the entire 'load' was gone.

In one instance, the plane had some smoke.
The pilot turned to hand a fire extinguisher to someone and the whole plane had exited.

Fire excites a lot of fears that people may not be prepared to calmly face, so it can be a separate discussion.

The pilot was looking at the difference of handling a minor electrical problem vs riding around in a large problem.

[Derekbox 0]

I am an aircraft mechanic, I have been on a couple loads in my skydiving career - if you spend enough time in the sport it will likely happen to you too. The most important thing I can impart to anyone in *ANY* emergency situation is to take a second to evaluate the situation. What is going on? Is there anything I can do? What do I need to do? The whole thought process takes half a second. Many people panic and nothing good comes from that.

Perfect example, if the airplane looses and engine (as per the previous posts) - the aircraft is still flying. If it is a twin, it still may be climbing too. A competent pilot should quickly evaluate the situation, address the situation and sometimes even rectify the situation. In any aircraft, but especially smaller aircraft - sudden changes in weight and balance (CG) can add to an already bad situation.

If on the other hand you look forward and see no nut behind the wheel (pilot) or you see them crawling past you towards the door - I suggest making a departure, consider it your permission.

D

[freakflyer9999 1]

I was once on a Cessna load with a new jump pilot. He had about 500 hours of experience, but only a couple of loads hauling skydivers. On the way to altitude, he failed to properly adjust the mixture and the engine died around 6-7K. Rather than addressing the problem by the checklist, he panicked and turned to the Tandem Master (DZO) and asked "What do I do?"

He was quickly instructed to follow the F*#8ing check list and fix the g*0D*6n problem. Of course as soon as he checked the mixture, the engine fired right up and up we went.

My point is that the Pilot is not always prepared for an emergency. Sometimes you do have to make up your own mind about the proper procedure.

This situation was minor. Worst case we would have glided back over the airport and either exited or rode the plane to a power off landing. Either should have been a non-event. There were plenty of off-airport pastures to safely land in, so even if we had to exit away from the airport it wouldn't have been a problem.

[BIGUN 1,053]

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the engine died around 6-7K. Rather than addressing the problem by the checklist, he panicked and turned to the Tandem Master (DZO) and asked "What do I do?"

He was quickly instructed to follow the F*#8ing check list and fix the g*0D*6n problem. Of course as soon as he checked the mixture, the engine fired right up and up we went.

I see this not so much as a pilot's cranial rectum inversion as much as a training issue. He was at 6-7K, load of jumpers which was a new experience for him, engine shits the bed. With 500 hours, I don't "think" he was asking what to do with the A/C, I "think" he was asking what to do about the skydivers on board the A/C when the engine shit the bed. A communication issue. A lack of training in airborne operations issue.

Some DZO's don't have formalized training regarding skydiving operations when a new pilot walks on the tarmac and has never even had people hanging out the door before to see what kind of new and exciting challenges THAT can bring.

And, it's not like we don't have enough aero types (pilots, engineers, etc.) that someone couldn't start a committee to formalize that training and even make it A/C specific. Include skydiver emergency exits in the training. Do some actual training once a year, twice a year...

anyway... my $.02.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[relyon 0]

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My point is that the Pilot is not always prepared for an emergency. Sometimes you do have to make up your own mind about the proper procedure.

I'm curious. How many how many in-flight complete power loss situations have you dealt with? Making up your own mind as to the proper procedure to be followed at any given time is fine; performing that procedure without the approval of the pilot-in-command is not.

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Worst case we would have glided back over the airport and either exited or rode the plane to a power off landing. Either should have been a non-event. There were plenty of off-airport pastures to safely land in, so even if we had to exit away from the airport it wouldn't have been a problem.

Worse case would have been everyone on board and possibly more on the ground were killed or injured, whatever the reason. What you've outlined is a hypothetical outcome from an actual incident that fortunately sounds like it actually ended in the best case scenario.

Bob

[JohnMitchell 14]

Once again to remind everyone- if you get the order to bail out, do it one at a time, single file. For cabin type A/C, stay in your place up front until it's almost your turn to go, then head back. Too many folks in the back will screw up the CG at a very critical time.

I was once briefed by an airline crew, that in an emergency exit, the captain would be the last person to leave the flight deck. Then the captain looked me in the eye and said "John, if you're the last person on the flight deck, you're the captain."

BTW, I have about 6 exits from quiet airplanes, and one forced landing, engine failure at 500 feet.
That certainly got my attention.

[DON321 0]

Thanks for all the replies, im still a newb, but i feel the more i read and learn about this sport the less danger i create to others or myself, if im not sure i ask even if its a stupid question....

thanks.....