bigway 4
QuoteQuoteI just bought a Pilot today and I don't want to know it !!
.
I can't wait to jump my first rig.
Since I live in Quebec, Canada it won't be till may so all I can do is cry until then...
Max
Jumps: 86
Main: Pilot 150 ft² (1.47 lbs/ft²)
Awfully high wing loading for 86 jumps that is not current or jumping regularly. You are setting your self up to get hurt.
. 
Ridiculous Wing Loading. What DZ would let someone jump a canopy at a 1.4 wingloading with that many jumps?
I bet the safety officer must have a lot of money on him for bounce bingo or something cause that is what I would call 'not doing your job' and if that is something you let get past you on your job then you are bad for the sport.
Taris, just cause you can jump this at your dz, does not mean you should. NO dealer in their right mind should of sold you this canopy is they did.
.Karnage Krew Gear Store
.
NWFlyer 2
Quote
Taris, just cause you can jump this at your dz, does not mean you should. NO dealer in their right mind should of sold you this canopy is they did.
Here we go again. Sounds like we've been here before with this one. Apparently the "right people" told him a 150 would be just swell.
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3727947
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke
QuoteQuoteI just bought a Pilot today and I don't want to know it !!
I can't wait to jump my first rig.
Since I live in Quebec, Canada it won't be till may so all I can do is cry until then...
Max
Jumps: 86
Main: Pilot 150 ft² (1.47 lbs/ft²)
Awfully high wing loading for 86 jumps that is not current or jumping regularly. You are setting your self up to get hurt.
Jeeeesus
WHo would let him jump this loading with 80 jumps?
OP// You are without doubt on target for a crash course in 'tough learning'
bigway 4
Time for some bounce bingo?
.Karnage Krew Gear Store
.
.Karnage Krew Gear Store
.
QuoteWell, thank's to all for the opinions...
What I get out of this is: The rigger I talked with is a PD dealer (thing I already knew), He is certainly a PD snob (Thing I was pretty sure of), Aerodyne is a great company with reliable gear and Pilot is comparable to Sabre2 in terms of performance.
If this isn't what you said and if I understood everything wrong, don't tell me. I just bought a Pilot today and I don't want to know it !!
I can't wait to jump my first rig.
Since I live in Quebec, Canada it won't be till may so all I can do is cry until then...
(If you wonder why, today it's -30C with 40 mph of wind and yesterday, it snowed...)
Thanks to all and blue skies...
Max
Max,
All those who are advising you to reconsider flying your Pilot at this high of the wing loading this early in your skydiving progression are right, and you should up size to a lower loading till you are comfortable flying something smaller. Please work with your distributor on changing your setup to a bigger Pilot. We at Aerodyne will be more than happy to switch your order to a size that will keep you safe.
Please let me know if there is anything on my end I can help you with?
Blues,
Les
Leszek Stachyra &
Chelsea “Cookie” Stachyra
Aerodyne US Tour
Cell (860)933-7666
Office (813)891-6300
[email protected]
“Better gear, better value, better skydives”
QuoteMax,
All those who are advising you to reconsider flying your Pilot at this high of the wing loading this early in your skydiving progression are right, and you should up size to a lower loading till you are comfortable flying something smaller. Please work with your distributor on changing your setup to a bigger Pilot. We at Aerodyne will be more than happy to switch your order to a size that will keep you safe.
Please let me know if there is anything on my end I can help you with?
Blues,
Les
Leszek Stachyra &
Chelsea “Cookie” Stachyra
Aerodyne US Tour
Cell (860)933-7666
Office (813)891-6300
[email protected]
“Better gear, better value, better skydives”
Now THAT's CUSTOMER SERVICE !!!
Way to go Les ...
QuoteQuoteWell, thank's to all for the opinions...
What I get out of this is: The rigger I talked with is a PD dealer (thing I already knew), He is certainly a PD snob (Thing I was pretty sure of), Aerodyne is a great company with reliable gear and Pilot is comparable to Sabre2 in terms of performance.
If this isn't what you said and if I understood everything wrong, don't tell me. I just bought a Pilot today and I don't want to know it !!
I can't wait to jump my first rig.
Since I live in Quebec, Canada it won't be till may so all I can do is cry until then...
(If you wonder why, today it's -30C with 40 mph of wind and yesterday, it snowed...)
Thanks to all and blue skies...
Max
Max,
All those who are advising you to reconsider flying your Pilot at this high of the wing loading this early in your skydiving progression are right, and you should up size to a lower loading till you are comfortable flying something smaller. Please work with your distributor on changing your setup to a bigger Pilot. We at Aerodyne will be more than happy to switch your order to a size that will keep you safe.
Please let me know if there is anything on my end I can help you with?
Blues,
Les
Leszek Stachyra &
Chelsea “Cookie” Stachyra
Aerodyne US Tour
Cell (860)933-7666
Office (813)891-6300
[email protected]
“Better gear, better value, better skydives”
And this is exactly why I have always and will always purchase Aerodyne products.
Kim Mills
USPA D21696
Tandem I, AFF I and Static Line I
USPA D21696
Tandem I, AFF I and Static Line I
cdhezel 0
Yo Taris,
if it helps, I spent a bit of time shopping around and included testing the Pilot. Others I flew to compare were the Sabre 2, Spark and Stiletto, The Sabre and spark are both good all round canopies, they can be pushed and are reasonably forgiving, the Spark seems to fly a little faster than the Sabre, The Pilot was a great canopy in the air, though it lacked the rawness of the Stiletto which was my choice. (I like the surprises) The Pilot s an excellent canopy to fly up high, though it is a little tame for me, it seems to fly quite flat and has good range, pushed it is forgiving. As others have said, it is a personal choice, I like the Pilot for it characteristics in the air and the fact that a smaller canopy can be flown with characteristics of a slightly larger canopy..... hope this helps
if it helps, I spent a bit of time shopping around and included testing the Pilot. Others I flew to compare were the Sabre 2, Spark and Stiletto, The Sabre and spark are both good all round canopies, they can be pushed and are reasonably forgiving, the Spark seems to fly a little faster than the Sabre, The Pilot was a great canopy in the air, though it lacked the rawness of the Stiletto which was my choice. (I like the surprises) The Pilot s an excellent canopy to fly up high, though it is a little tame for me, it seems to fly quite flat and has good range, pushed it is forgiving. As others have said, it is a personal choice, I like the Pilot for it characteristics in the air and the fact that a smaller canopy can be flown with characteristics of a slightly larger canopy..... hope this helps
When I go, I want to pass away in my sleep, just like my dear old Grandmother, NOT screaming like the passengers in the car she was driving.
Taris 0
Ok...
Let's calm down !!
I'm not saying that I'm going to jump it tomorrow morning. I've did my homeworks. I've asked advices to DZ owners, riggers, experience jumpers... I've bought it and would like to jump it (of course) but I'm not in a hurry.
I'll jump bigger canopies until I'm ready for that 150. And I am not the one how's going to decide if I'm ready or not.
It's have been discused already with competent persons around me as well as in this forum. I'm having a lot of different opinions and I'm still trying to make my way through that.
Thank's for worrying (seriously) and be sure that I take this really seriously. My health is from far more valuable that a canopy !!!
Let's calm down !!
I'm not saying that I'm going to jump it tomorrow morning. I've did my homeworks. I've asked advices to DZ owners, riggers, experience jumpers... I've bought it and would like to jump it (of course) but I'm not in a hurry.
I'll jump bigger canopies until I'm ready for that 150. And I am not the one how's going to decide if I'm ready or not.
It's have been discused already with competent persons around me as well as in this forum. I'm having a lot of different opinions and I'm still trying to make my way through that.
Thank's for worrying (seriously) and be sure that I take this really seriously. My health is from far more valuable that a canopy !!!
How many jumps do you think it might take before you are ready for a main loaded at nearly 1.5, and a reserve loaded at nearly 1.4?
I've been demoing a Pilot 210 and I dig it. It slammed me once on opening but only once so I'm not holding anything against it just yet. The flare is really good and it's a lot of fun to fly. It's also the ZPX material and fits perfect in my Infinity built for a 190. I'm loading it at 1.06 with 89 jumps and it's working well for me.
cdhezel 0
Hey Taris,
all these experts with advise n'cest pas, I am trying to understand where these guys came up with thier wing load calcs as I do not see your weight anywhere, and to load that 150 at 1.5 you must weigh close to 200lbs ?? how heavy are you. Also one small correction, it IS YOU who decides when you are ready to downsize, this decision is uniquely yours, there is no "passing the buck" in this game, is your job to inform yourself so you can make the wise choice, that includes stepping out the door at 12000ft.
In my previous post I offered only info based on experience, NOT advise, but there is one small piece of advise I would offer... Canopy courses with a good coach are invaluable, I was fortunate enough to do 2 courses with different members of the PD team, made me reinvent my canopy piloting style.....
Blues
CD
When I go, I want to pass away in my sleep, just like my dear old Grandmother, NOT screaming like the passengers in the car she was driving.
dragon2 2
He removed the WL from his profile:
Now I wonder why..?
ciel bleu,
Saskia
QuoteMain: Pilot 150 ft² (1.47 lbs/ft²)
Now I wonder why..?
ciel bleu,
Saskia
QuoteHey Taris,
all these experts with advise n'cest pas, I am trying to understand where these guys came up with thier wing load calcs as I do not see your weight anywhere, and to load that 150 at 1.5 you must weigh close to 200lbs ?? how heavy are you. Also one small correction, it IS YOU who decides when you are ready to downsize, this decision is uniquely yours, there is no "passing the buck" in this game, is your job to inform yourself so you can make the wise choice, that includes stepping out the door at 12000ft.
In my previous post I offered only info based on experience, NOT advise, but there is one small piece of advise I would offer... Canopy courses with a good coach are invaluable, I was fortunate enough to do 2 courses with different members of the PD team, made me reinvent my canopy piloting style.....
Blues
CD
(By the way, I asked him in a PM to verify his weight, but he did not respond.)
At some point he must have set his weight in his profile.
For a time, his public profile showed that the 150 square feet main was loaded at of 1.47 pounds per square foot.
That works out to be an exit weight of about 220 pounds, which would be, as you say, a body weight of nearly 200.
He lists his reserve as a PD 160. Using the 220 pound exit weight, he has a loading on the reserve of about 1.37 psf.
According to the Aerodyne canopy selector page for the Pilot, this weight on a Pilot 150 is somewhere between "Advanced" and "Maximum".
Working the numbers, their Advanced wing loading would be 1.3 psf, and the Maximum would be 1.6 psf.
Considering the PD Reserve 160, they would put this exit weight in the Expert category.
As you say, just the information, not advice.
But, now I will ask you, do you think these numbers are a bit scary?
He's going to have brand new gear that he will be just itching to use. But, instead, he will have to borrow or rent gear that is appropriate now.
Don't you think he will be strongly tempted to use his new gear before he is ready?
Taris 0
I took my weight of my profile because I received a few messages on my WL and I was tired of it.
As I said and as I'm saying again... I got the point. (RiggerPaul: You must have been one of the 3 personal posts I had and this is why I haven't answered.)
Even if I know that it is for my own good, I'm starting to feel agressed by the repetitiveness (is that even an english word??) of the message. Once would have been enough...
Now, I am going to repeat it once again... I'll wait until I feel safe to fly it and when my DZ authorities will agree with it.
And yes, I might be tempted to try my rig before I'm ready (anyone would) but this is not the kind of game I like to play.
By the way, I haven't bought anything new. It's all used gear and I could easily sell my canopy and buy something else without loosing money.
Is there anything more to say that haven't been said yet ?
As I said and as I'm saying again... I got the point. (RiggerPaul: You must have been one of the 3 personal posts I had and this is why I haven't answered.)
Even if I know that it is for my own good, I'm starting to feel agressed by the repetitiveness (is that even an english word??) of the message. Once would have been enough...
Now, I am going to repeat it once again... I'll wait until I feel safe to fly it and when my DZ authorities will agree with it.
And yes, I might be tempted to try my rig before I'm ready (anyone would) but this is not the kind of game I like to play.
By the way, I haven't bought anything new. It's all used gear and I could easily sell my canopy and buy something else without loosing money.
Is there anything more to say that haven't been said yet ?
Just to be clear, my post was a response to cdhezel who asked how people got the wing loading information.
I have not given you any advice.
In a PM I asked you to confirm your weight. I used a PM so it you wouldn't think I was attacking you.
In a post I asked how long you expected you might have to wait before you could safely use the Pilot 150 and the PDR 160.
Answering my questions would have been nice, but it doesn't really matter.
But I was not one of the people who was ragging on you.
I have not given you any advice.
In a PM I asked you to confirm your weight. I used a PM so it you wouldn't think I was attacking you.
In a post I asked how long you expected you might have to wait before you could safely use the Pilot 150 and the PDR 160.
Answering my questions would have been nice, but it doesn't really matter.
But I was not one of the people who was ragging on you.
cdhezel 0
come on guys, this is starting to sound bitchy, Taris, the only thing that you need to do in this sport is to have fun, and I hope you do, Rigger Paul, the feedback was great and constructive, I am sure Taris profitted by it.
Anyway, if we were all the kind of people who like to play it safe then we sure as hell wouldn't be stepping out of A'planes at 4000m
blue skies and deep powder snow....
Anyway, if we were all the kind of people who like to play it safe then we sure as hell wouldn't be stepping out of A'planes at 4000m
blue skies and deep powder snow....
When I go, I want to pass away in my sleep, just like my dear old Grandmother, NOT screaming like the passengers in the car she was driving.
That's simply not true, Aerodyne makes great quality stuff, both harness/container systems and canopies. No, I don't work for Aerodyne, but have been very happy with my Aerodyne gear so far.
The Pilot and the Sabre2 are both lightly elliptical 9-cells that can be suitable for beginners and experienced jumpers depending on wingloading, but they open, fly and land quite differently, and some like the Sabre2 and others like the Pilot. My local dealer likes Sabre2, Crossfire, Katana and Velocity, so that's what he sells, and when Sabre2 is owned by many beginners, it gets recommended by the beginners who haven't flown anything else, then Sabre2 is what we mostly see over here (in Norway).
Some people are going to like the Pilot and others the Sabre2, I LOVE my Pilots and don't understand why everyone doesn't get them. See if you can try both so you can decide what you like, but at your experience level and wingload, I'd say you'd be happy with any of them. They are both good canopies.
The main differences are that the Sabre2 is better if you want to learn front riser hooks, and the Pilot has better openings, so they suit different types of jumpers, but both have good openings and both can be hooked.
I hope this was helpful, now go and order yourself an appropriately sized ZPX Pilot, jump it and have fun
.
Relax, you can die if you mess up, but it will probably not be by bullet.
I'm a BIG, TOUGH BIGWAY FORMATION SKYDIVER! What are you?
I'm a BIG, TOUGH BIGWAY FORMATION SKYDIVER! What are you?
MagicGuy 0
His weight is listed in another thread that he started, basically asking about Sabre2 150s. He weighs 195 lbs.
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3727947;page=unread#unread
Dude, whoever gave you the OK to buy a 150 anything should have their licenses revoked. You have 90 jumps over the course of 2 years and you have a WL of 1.5 - that has bad news written all over it
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3727947;page=unread#unread
Dude, whoever gave you the OK to buy a 150 anything should have their licenses revoked. You have 90 jumps over the course of 2 years and you have a WL of 1.5 - that has bad news written all over it
mdrejhon 8
For massive downsizing error, at least it's the Pilot. My experience from many demos indicates it floats down pretty slowly relative to its size, and recovers from turns pretty fast compared to most canopies. That said, 1.5 should be held off for quite a while.QuoteHis weight is listed in another thread that he started, basically asking about Sabre2 150s. He weighs 195 lbs.
Back to OOP.... On the topic of Aerodyne Pilot. I've still got my eye on the Pilot 140. The fact they came to set up a demo booth at Rainbow Boogie, helped cinch my decision. (In addition, a friend of mine there also bought an Aerodyne as part of a new rig)
QuoteEven if I know that it is for my own good, I'm starting to feel agressed by the repetitiveness (is that even an english word??) of the message. Once would have been enough...
Hmm. I wonder why so many people feel so strongly?
QuoteNow, I am going to repeat it once again... I'll wait until I feel safe to fly it and when my DZ authorities will agree with it.
That's good. Very good, and it's going to always be the best idea.
When you're talking to your local authorities, keep in mind that one of the very foremost canopy teachers on Earth has published recommendations that would have that time be about three hundred jumps in the future.
Do what you're gonna do, but think hard first, and don't just listen to the opinions you like the sound of.
--
"I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan
"You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?
"I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan
"You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?
Jumps: 86
Main: Pilot 150 ft² (1.47 lbs/ft²)
Awfully high wing loading for 86 jumps that is not current or jumping regularly. You are setting your self up to get hurt.
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