Aerodyne Pilot

[Taris 0]

Hi folks,
I'm looking to buy a Sabre2 as a first canopy and asked a rigger about the Pilot from Aerodyne because, as long as I can read here, both looks pretty equivalent. (ya, I know, most of you are gonna say that there is a lot of differences between the two but this is not the point... )

He told me not to buy that, it worth nothing. He added that Aerodyne don't do any really good stuff. "They are trying to get a reputation for years and there is a reason why they don't!"

I think that for him, everything is either black or white. But still, I'm wandering why he would say that.

I must say that I haven't really heard much about Aerodyne before and I'm thinking; Maybe he's right...

So... Do anyone have any idea why one would say that about the Pilot and the company?

Thanks
Max

[likestojump 3]

He may be old and grumpy - Sabre has been out since 89, Pilot has much shorter market history.
he can be a PD snob.

bottom line - you obviously have read some of the threads here where people praise the Pilot - so obviously it has market share and many people like it.

Demo both, and see what you like. I am sure you will like 'em both - it's just a matter of which one you like more :)

good luck !

[bigway 4]

Your rigger is outdated. Aerodyne has an excellent reputation.

The pilot i a very popular canopy.

.Karnage Krew Gear Store
.

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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So... Do anyone have any idea why one would say that about the Pilot and the company?

Maybe he is a PD dealer. Maybe he's thinking about the Diablo which was an answer in search of a problem. Maybe he just doesn't like the control feel or other characteristics of the Aerodyne canopies he has jumped. Maybe he doesn't like that Aerodyne does not post line trim charts on their web site directly like PD or in their electronic owners' manuals like Big Air Sportz.

Ask him for specific and verifiable answers.

"They are trying to get a reputation for years and there is a reason why they don't!"

is neither and should be ignored.

Good example statements in both areas are

"Reaching the power band jumping a X square foot canopy Y takes more toggle than the same sized canopy Z from some other company and I don't like it"

"I crawled inside a brand new X square foot model Y reserve and didn't find the same reinforcing tapes on load bearing ribs as on current brand W and Z products"

You also need to judge companies on their current products and not past products, especially evaluated according to contemporary standards. PD's original Sabre (from 1989? which would be 20 years ago) does not stack up to modern designs in terms of control sensitivity, recovery arc, stall speed, or opening speed. PD's current products meet or exceed current market expectations. Precision's original Raven main/reserve (I have one from the late eighties) was not reinforced as heavily as a PD Reserve and did not have flight characteristics suited to contemporary wing loadings (1.0 pounds/square foot was the expected number). Their current R-Max uses similar reinforcing schemes as the PD and Smart reserves and works at current wing loadings.

This also ignores that a rigging ticket doesn't mean that much in terms of gear knowledge. Mostly it's proof that the holder took the time to do twenty inspect & repacks on diverse enough gear that he was able to pass the practical examination. It didn't mean that he had to actually jump the gear in question or even observe problems that weren't caused by the user.

[virgin-burner 1]

havent met a rigger yet which wasnt biased; probably due to their dealer-status with each company and where they make the most dosh of it..

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[phoenixlpr 0]

Have you ever tried to search here? There were discussions and comparisons since it has been released.

That was one of the reason I bought one in 2004.

[Taris 0]

Hummm...
I think he's a PD dealer...
And yes, now that I think about it, concerning the last questions I asked him, If it's not PD it's cr*p.

This could be the reason why.

[Scootersv 0]

....a rigging ticket doesn't mean that much in terms of gear knowledge....

that's so true.
I came across few old school guys who still living somewhere in 80's. Sure they still can use their sewing machine the very same way they did 30 years ago but they have very limited knowledge what's happened since. Assuming there is no personal interests involved in the advise given of course.
I personally jumped all Pilots from 188 down to 132. It's probably not a swooping machine (didn't mean to be i believe in the first place) but it's good all around canopy - hands down. Aerodyne did an amazing job with this one.
Test jump both and see which one suits you best - simple as that.

[skybytch 259]

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havent met a rigger yet which wasnt biased; probably due to their dealer-status with each company and where they make the most dosh of it.

The majority of riggers that I know don't sell gear.

[AndyMan 7]

One of the hardest tasks given to new skydivers is that we expect them to be able to figure out who to take advice from.

It sounds like this person is someone from whom you should not take advice.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[kmills0705 0]

I know riggers who are not biased at all. I think they would tell you both are pretty comparable.

I will tell you my experience.

I love Aerodyne as a company. I was in the market for a new custom made canopy. I was flying a Triathlon at the time. I was looking at a PD Sabre 2 and an Aerodyne Pilot. I called PD and got a demo of a Sabre 2 190. (I was flying a Tri 220 at the time). I got it in a reasonable amount of time. Put a few jumps on it and sent it back. I was still underloading the 190 in a big way. I called Aerodyne and got a demo of the Pilot 168. I also asked PD to demo a 170.

Aerodyne had the 168 out to me immediately. And I instantly liked the canopy more than the Sabre 2. Perhaps it was the wing loading. I called PD again to inquire about getting the 170 to demo. They didn't have one available and would call when they did.

I waited about a week and decided the Pilot was the canopy for me. I talked with Les from Aerodyne in quote length about which canopy size was best for me. He recommended a 150. I was a little leary even with 500 jumps being a conservative canopy pilot. I custom ordered the Pilot 168 through Mike at Chuting Star.

I love that canopy. I had been flying it about 1 year and a half and was in Deland this past Thanksgiving and got a demo of a Pilot 140. It was instant love. I began shopping online for a used 140 and they are a rare commodity. I ended up getting a Triathlon 135 at an insanely good deal (thank to likestojump). And am still in love with the Aerodyne products. Their customer service is top notch.

I have a second rig I am putting together and will be putting a Pilot 140 in it. PD's are fabulous canopies. But in my opinion so are Aerodyne's. I would rather pay less for a comparable canopy. I am ok that it isn't a PD.

Oh, by the way. PD called me around the time I received my custom ordered Pilot saying they had a 170 for me to demo. Needless to say I turned it down.

Long story short - demo both and see what you like. Keep in mind your experience with customer service when getting your demo canopy. And then make a decision based on what you are looking for.

Kim Mills
USPA D21696
Tandem I, AFF I and Static Line I

[VTmotoMike08 0]

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So... Do anyone have any idea why one would say that about the Pilot and the company?

Well, after taking a good look at both it seems in my non-professional opinion that the PD canopies are in generally of more sturdy construction. The sewing just LOOKS so much stronger, and like it was done with more care. Also, a pilot is not an all ZP canopy, the ribs are F-111. I'm not sure if this really effects performance or durability, but I doubt that it does nothing.

The pilot has snappy, fun toggle turns. And that's it. Sure it opens nice and soft but almost any modern ZP canopy will do that. The front risers had very high pressure and it recovers from a dive almost instantly. I, and everyone I have ever talked to, prefer the toggle stroke on the Sabre2 over the pilot; they flare very differently. Some would say the pilot doesn't shut down, but it does, although it is pretty late in the powerband (you've really gotta get the toggles ALL the way down to get a decent landing).

This topic has been beat to death a couple times... I was just bored

[dragon2 0]

I very much prefer the pilot to all the canopies I've owned and flown so far, and that included a few spectres, vengeance, sabre 1 and 2, pulse, storm and stiletto, so most of the PD lineup. Not saying PD isn't any good, but your arguments don't make much sense: of COURSE a pilot recovers from a dive almost instantly, you shouldn't be comparing it to a sabre2 but rather to a silhouette or pulse (which BTW are also not 100% ZP). I LIKE the pilot coming out of a dive so fast, makes for stress-free camera work and wingsuiting, and I HATED some of the sabre2 openings - hard and off-heading or soft as butter and on heading, this depending on which sabre2 you happen to fly. Same with vengeance BTW, not a consistent canopy either. At least all pilots I've flown so far are consistent And they land fine, they sell like hotcakes here and I've never actually heard anyone complain they had trouble landing one before, hmmmm...

If you want to swoop, sure get a sabre 2 or a fusion, it sounds that's what YOU want. I for one like my openings stress free and so far the pilot seems to manage that just fine

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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So... Do anyone have any idea why one would say that about the Pilot and the company?

Well, after taking a good look at both it seems in my non-professional opinion that the PD canopies are in generally of more sturdy construction. The sewing just LOOKS so much stronger, and like it was done with more care. Also, a pilot is not an all ZP canopy, the ribs are F-111.

High speed tears in F111 are more likely to be self-contained than in ZP so you may be more likely to land a canopy with 0-3 CFM load bearing ribs after a hard opening than one with ZP.

0-3 CFM ribs make the canopy easier to pack into a small volume.

0-3 CFM ribs don't have a negative effect on canopy performance.

And the leakage can't be anything like it is through an open cross-port.

There are only upsides apart from requiring makers to stock -3 CFM material in colors apart from the white typically used for reserves.

Brian Germain also uses F111 in his ribs.

[MarkM 0]

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He added that Aerodyne don't do any really good stuff. "They are trying to get a reputation for years and there is a reason why they don't!"

Aerodyne has a very solid rep and has had a good rep for years and years. They don't have the same rabid fan base that PD has, but they make great canopies and offer good customer support.

[pilotsR4pimps 0]

yes

[Joellercoaster 6]

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Also, a pilot is not an all ZP canopy, the ribs are F-111. I'm not sure if this really effects performance or durability

I think the porosity of parachute ribs is more likely to be increased by the MASSIVE HOLES in them, than by the material from which they are constructed.

[edit: beaten to it, maybe I should read the entire thread before opening my mouth. Back on-topic, I'm on my third Pilot now. I've jumped Sabre2s in all the sizes I've owned and more, and know which one I prefer - it's just a genuinely great canopy.]

--
"I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan

"You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

[popsjumper 2]

Massive holes.

Yes, we had it happen again a couple of weeks ago.
New jumper learning to pack...

"Hey! This canopy is torn up inside!"


Aerodyne is my main man!
Although I fly Triathlons regularly, the Pilots I have demoed do everything one could ask of it except compete in swooping.

I can't speak to customer service except to say that they STILL haven't adequately identified the Triathlon linesets on their web page.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[JohanW 0]

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I can't speak to customer service except to say that they STILL haven't adequately identified the Triathlon linesets on their web page.

www.flyaerodyne.com, products, triathlon, tech specs, Triathlon line trim (PDF). I don't see the problem. What am I missing? Do you want trim specs for Dacron? Do you want to know trim specs for pre-4.0 line attachments? Can you not buy linesets from the store?

Johan.
I am. I think.

[pilot-one 0]

The riggers I know that don't like the Pilot have never jumped the Pilot. I'll bet this guy has never even jumped one himself. Just a hunch.

[amstalder 0]

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Massive holes.

Yes, we had it happen again a couple of weeks ago.
New jumper learning to pack...

"Hey! This canopy is torn up inside!"

One of my first jumps I landed beside a tree, and the canopy landed in it... We were looking it over for damage... and I saw a hole... and freaked out .

To the OP- I know plenty of people that love their Pilots... I was planning on demoing one, but I found a used container that actually fit me and it came with a Spectre, so thats what I jump.

[GLIDEANGLE 1]

I have several friends who LOVE their Pilot canopies. I have demo'ed one and was very impressed.

The choices we make have consequences, for us & for others!

[tbrown 26]

I switched from a Spectre (a really fine 7 cell) to a 210 Pilot and jumped it for three years, 'til I blew the poor thing up with a slammer opening. By the way, a slammer can happen to anyone under any canopy. They hurt like hell and in rare cases can even kill you. They're something we all need to watch out for (ask your rigger) and they can happen with any make, model, or brand name canopy.

I didn't think the 210 could be repaired (I was right - it was totalled), but sent it back to Aerodyne for a looking over. Sent them a cheerful note too. Aerodyne called me back and told me my canopy was dead as a doornail, but they made me a terrific offer for a brand new canopy off the shelf. It wasn't a free replacement, but get this - I wasn't the original owner of the blown canopy either, and I was open with them about that. The price they offered was well below the going rate for Pilots on the used market. They even offered to build me a custom Pilot, if I was willing to wait. I didn't think I needed custom and was happy to order a beautiful 188 in a blue waterfall color scheme. I've been really happy with both my Pilots and very satisfied with way Aerodyne supported me after losing the first one.

Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity !

[tdog 0]

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The riggers I know that don't like the Pilot have never jumped the Pilot. I'll bet this guy has never even jumped one himself. Just a hunch.

I'm a rigger, and I personally hated my pilot. But in all fairness, I became a rigger after I sold my pilot.

I simply did not like how it landed. I won't say it was bad - some people might like it, and it is a "good canopy" overall... Just did not like it. I hate GM cars too.


Thus I say - jump it and decide if you like it. If you do, and the price is good, buy it... I don't think, from my personal experience owning one, that there is a reason not to buy it if you like it...

Some say it has great openings as the reason to buy it... It does for the most part... But I also had the worst slammer ever, as in, left marks on my body and caused damage to gear and people on the ground who watched the load walked over to me post landing to make sure I was alright due to what they saw 4000 feet away - on a pilot... So any canopy will slam you... (Although 1000+ jumps on my Katana have been slammer free)

[airdvr 197]

Much the same as T, I traded in a badly performing, older Tri190 that I bought used on a new Pilot. Love the canopy, and love the customer service from Aerodyne.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne