Freefly jumpsuit for belly flying?

[almeister112 0]

I recently got off of student status, and I'm looking around for buying my own gear. I'm going to go used for the container, canopies, and probably the altimeter, but I thought I'd get myself a nice-fitting new jumpsuit.

The question is, is there any reason not to buy a freefly suit and just use it for belly flying? I'm not going to start freeflying for quite a while since I'm still not close to good enough at belly, but I know belly suits don't work for freeflying (why is that, incidentally? Just less drag?). So I was thinking I'd just buy a freefly suit and use it for belly, unless that's a terrible idea, which it very well might be. I just don't know that much about freeflying yet. Any help would be great. Thanks.

[Cueb 0]

I don't think its a great idea. It's difficult to keep up with others wearing ff-suit while others have fs-suits. And you won't have booties. If you're not gonna do free flying, why buy a free fly suit?

I personally have never done fs after student status.. but that's just me. I've been trying to find a cheap fs suit that fits so i could train a bit of that too, but no luck so far..

[davelepka 4]

First off, a freefly suit doesn't have grippers, so that makes it tougher for the people you're jumping with. A freefly suit usualyl has baggy arms/legs, so technically they can just grab onto the extra material.

That said, you have to remember that jumpsuits are designed for fall rate. If you are going to be doign RW with people shorter and fatter then you, then a freefly suit is a terrible idea. The extra drag fo the suit will slow you down, while the bowling balls you're jumping with will want you to speed up.

Of course, if you're the bowling ball, you might actually need the extra drag of the freefly suit to do RW.

Those are just examples of how the suit and it's design will effect your jump. The truth is that the majority of multi person jumps are all done at about the same speed. Lets just say 120 for RW and 150 for freefly, and everyone chooses a suit that will help their personal body type fly at those speeds.

Now if you're doing a two way RW with the biggest guy on the DZ, then you may have to find a way to go 135 on your belly because that's the slowest the big guy can go, but for the most part you can expect group jumps to always be close to more 'average' speed.

That said, if you're going to buya suit, buy an RW suit. The fit is a little more important than a freefly suit, and the wrong suit can really hamper your RW progression. You'll be doing 3, 4, and 5 way RW jumps very soon, and you'll be expected to match the 'average' fall rate, and the wrong suit can make this tough.

In terms of freeflying, your early jumps will be primarily two ways, where the average is whatever the two of you work out. Also the range of freefly speeds is higher. You can sit or backfly at 140, or stand up or head down at 170, and it's all still freeflying.

Here's what you do - consult with an instructor regarding your body size/type, and what type of RW suit material. cut, and options would be good for you, and order that suit. Next, go into the student room, and see if you can find a baggy suit with velcro arm/leg cuffs that seems to fit you. Use that suit for your occasional freefly jump. You could also look for jumpers about your size at the DZ, and see if you could borrow a freefly suit from them for your occasional freefly jump. Next winter, save your pennies, and order your own custom fit freefly suit.

[BobbyR1990 0]

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And you won't have booties.

You don't need booties to track good, sure they help for some people but you need them.

[JohanW 0]

They help for a *lot* of people, including world champions.

Dress for success.

For RW, that means booties.

Johan.
I am. I think.

[almeister112 0]

Thanks to everybody for the advice. A belly suit is definitely sounding like the way to go, then. I definitely want to learn freeflying at some point, but it's probably a decent way off, and until that point I can borrow a suit when I need to. Also, do you have to have a suit for freeflying, or do baggy clothes (tucked in, of course; I read the post about t-shirts flying up over handles) fit the bill OK?

[pilotdave 0]

Booties do help a lot with tracking, but tracking is not the primary reason for having booties on an RW suit.

I'd highly recommend starting with a proper fitting RW suit, with booties. Wait a while before buying the $200 pair of pants for freeflying.

Dave

[davelepka 4]

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do you have to have a suit for freeflying, or do baggy clothes (tucked in, of course; I read the post about t-shirts flying up over handles) fit the bill OK?

The problem is in the pants. Most people will learn to sit fly first, and if the pants don't have velcor closed cuffs, than they will fill with air and blow up around your knees. Even if you're trying to fly on your head, if you need to rotate to the sit the pants will strike again.

You're just better off in a suit. Like I said, the fit of freefly suit is less important than an RW suit, so even if you can find something 'close' it will fit the bill until you deciede you like freeflyin enough just to buy a suit.

[davelepka 4]

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Wait a while before buying the $200 pair of pants for freeflying.

Freefly pants are stupid, and I'm going to tell you why.

Only having drag on your lower body is dumb. Unless you plan to only fly on your head, you need some drag on your upper body for flying upright.

So if you really are going to fly only on your head, and you're a big guy who needs the drag of freefly pants, than you could also use the drag the top half of a suit would provide. If you're a smaller guy, with tight freefly pants and no drag up top, just put on a $30 pair of jeans.

The only upside to freefly pants I can see is that if you have a baggy shirt up top and freefly pants on the bottom, you can pull the baggy shirt off to stay cool on the ground. I do the same with my suit by just taking off the top and tying the arms around my waist, but that's just me.

You could make the argument that on a hot day you can wear a T-shirt and freefly pants, but then you're back to drag on the bottom, and none on top. Again, if that's you scene, put on some jeans, and spend the other $170 a nice bag of weed.

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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The question is, is there any reason not to buy a freefly suit and just use it for belly flying?

Your neutral fall rate will be way slower than the people you'd want to jump with due to the increased drag. The best case is that you won't have as much fun on those jumps and worst case is you won't get invited back for not making it in to the formation.

[jsreznor 0]

I RW in a freefly suit. It's not so bad.
The bagginess does slow me down enough (I'm 5'10"/200) to fly with smaller peoples. I do have to still fly big though. Unfortunately, this is a sport dominated by small people with no muscle mass.

About other people and grips - not so much a problem on the arms taking a grip. A little harder on the legs because of how the fabric flies and how it's harder to just grab someone's leg like you would an arm. The toughest part would be linked exits where others would just grab my legstraps. In the end I end up flying Tail so no one has to grab me.

In the end, get what you want. You can always get grippers sewn into your suit if you find it that much of a disadvantage, and then get yourself a new FF suit.

[pilotdave 0]

I've never understood freefly pants... but they sure are popular. That's one of the few items of clothing missing from my gear bag. 2 RW suits (and a 3rd on order), freefly suit, camera suit, camera jacket, and a wingsuit. Use the right tool for the job, right?

Dave

[skybytch 259]

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I RW in a freefly suit. It's not so bad.

If all you're doing is zoo loads with your friends on your belly then yeah, it's not so bad.

If, on the other hand, you want to learn to fly on your belly with other people and actually complete the planned formation(s), use the right tool for the job from the beginning.

[almeister112 0]

OK, so a belly suit is definitely gonna happen. Seems like the best all-around plan.

While I want to learn how to freefly at some point, what I really want to work up to (a looooooong way down the road) is a wingsuit. Those seem ridiculously fun. I'm looking at Tony Suits for my RW suit, but I'm wondering which type I should get. I'm 5'11 and 175lbs, so would I want a swoop suit, pit special, or camera suit? I'm assuming I probably don't want a camera suit as a first one, but does anybody know if there's a difference between the other two? And what about fabric types? I'm also going to run all of this by my instructors before I do anything, but any help from the forum would be great too.

[Cueb 0]

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And you won't have booties.

You don't need booties to track good, sure they help for some people but you need them.

Of course you can track good without booties... But who was talking about tracking? :) Booties add lots of power to legs and that makes a lot of difference when performing an RW jump.

[amstalder 0]

Have you talked to your DZO about buying the RW suit you wore as a student?? Thats what I did. I couldnt afford to by a new jumpsuit, so I made an offer for one of the DZs. Yeah it may be a little dirty, but it would be an RW suit. Just a thought. (also the pit special is a tighter suit than their other RW suit. Thats my understanding anyways)

[Nicolai 0]

Well, if you don't feel like spending all your precious jump money on several suits, i'd suggest getting an allround suit.

You can get freefly suits with grippers, deepseed and matter makes them, and others do too, I'm sure.

For a first suit, I'd buy a deepseed inverter or a Matter matrix.

But thats just me. I'm by no means i wise guy. just giving my opinion:-)

Have fun with your new suit:-)

[mjosparky 3]

No other piece of gear will affect the way you fly as much as a jumpsuit. No one jumpsuit does all things well. Any suit that is designed to try will end up mediocre at everything. This sport is not cheap and you are just starting to learn that. Stay safe.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[flipper 0]

Excellent post [/:)]

[skybytch 259]

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You can get freefly suits with grippers, deepseed and matter makes them, and others do too, I'm sure.

Grips on ff suits are there so you can take grips while freeflying. They don't solve the major issue here - that freefly suits are designed for freeflying, not belly flying.

Again, if all you want to do on your belly is zoo loads and you don't care if they ever complete, a freefly suit will be fine. But if you want to actually learn to fly on your belly, and have others who have actually learned to fly on their bellies wanting to jump with you, and maybe eventually be able to complete skydives as dirt dived...

[ebusto 0]

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Grips on ff suits are there so you can take grips while freeflying.

No, they're not. Freefly grips are taken on hands, arms, shins, feet, and heads.

For reference:
4-way VFS dive pool: http://www.fai.org/parachuting/system/files/vfs_pool_2009.pdf
2-way VFS dive pool: http://www.gottunnel.com/NHTunnelMeet/2-WayVFSDivePoolv2.pdf

I've never taken a grip on a jumpsuit gripper on a freefly jump, ever.

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Again, if all you want to do on your belly is zoo loads and you don't care if they ever complete, a freefly suit will be fine. But if you want to actually learn to fly on your belly, and have others who have actually learned to fly on their bellies wanting to jump with you, and maybe eventually be able to complete skydives as dirt dived...

I disagree. While you won't be doing competition 4-way, or serious big ways in a freefly suit, it is entirely possible to be a competent belly flier. Modern freefly suits aren't the baggy suits of yore.

You may have a different definition of "zoo load" than I do, but I've done 10+ point 4-way, multiple point 8 to 10 ways, etc. in a freefly suit with no issues, in other words, completed as dirt dived.

[pchapman 261]

To continue to try to hash this issue out for the OP, a freefly suit isn't always the right size to mix in with the typical RW jump. It might happen to work out due to your personal combination of weight & height, or work out if you are already skilled at RW, or if your buddies are using similar suits.

The OP can ask experienced jumpers at the DZ about it.

So trying to use a freefly suit for RW MIGHT work. But, without knowing any other factors, it is more likely to harm your RW progression with people other than coaches who will adjust their fall rate to yours.

Freefly suits are generally baggier than RW suits, although there's overlap especially for heavier guys, or tighter modern freefly jumpsuits.

(For the experienced freefliers: Are they recommending a very tight freefly jumpsuit for novices from the start, or do they still recommend something baggier for learning?)

[davelepka 4]

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For the experienced freefliers: Are they recommending a very tight freefly jumpsuit for novices from the start, or do they still recommend something baggier for learning?)

This whole issue couldn't be more a carbon copy of the RW suit progression back in the day. Now the VRW has sped up the fallrates and started to get seriuous, the suits have become tighter. If you notice, however, all of the VRW guy in the tight suits are young, fit jumpers. You don't see an overweight guy up there in a tight suit trying to stay up with the team.

The issue of bagginess of a freefly suit should only be related to your body/size type, and the speeds you want to fly. If you are a big guy, and want to jump with your skinny girlfriend, you're going to need a bigger suit.

As for the guy you replied to, it sounds liek he was just looking for a way to be contrary. Sure in VRW, the grips used are not associated with grippers, but other docks in freeflying do use the grips, and that's what they're designed for. Why else would a manufacturer put grippers on a jumpsuit? They're there for gripping.

By this point, I'm sure the OP has a handle on the situation, and some ideas for when he asks his instructors what they think.

[ebusto 0]

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As for the guy you replied to, it sounds liek he was just looking for a way to be contrary. Sure in VRW, the grips used are not associated with grippers, but other docks in freeflying do use the grips, and that's what they're designed for. Why else would a manufacturer put grippers on a jumpsuit? They're there for gripping.

I wasn't trying to be contrary for the sake of being contrary, I simply disagreed with the message (and the tone) of the poster I was replying to. Belly flying in a freefly suit does not mean the skydive will be a disaster.

Quite literally, I have never seen one freeflyer take a grip on the grippers of another freeflyer. Have you taken such a grip? You have a lot more jumps than I do, so perhaps I simply haven't encountered such a grip yet, and you have.

I maintain the opinion that grippers on some freefly suits are so the suit can be used for both disciplines. If the OP is tight on funds and wants to spring for just one suit, a freefly suit is a valid option.

[tetra316 0]

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As for the guy you replied to, it sounds liek he was just looking for a way to be contrary. Sure in VRW, the grips used are not associated with grippers, but other docks in freeflying do use the grips, and that's what they're designed for. Why else would a manufacturer put grippers on a jumpsuit? They're there for gripping.

I maintain the opinion that grippers on some freefly suits are so the suit can be used for both disciplines. If the OP is tight on funds and wants to spring for just one suit, a freefly suit is a valid option.

Totally disagree. I have never seen anyone jump a freefly suit with grippers on any RW jumps, except zoo loads. If you really want to learn either, get the appropriate suit. If you are looking for a cheap way out, skydiving is probably too expensive for you, unless you don't care about really progressing.