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Liemberg

Low? Straight for the reserve?

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It's been my planned course of action to fire a reserve into a high-speed mal should I find myself -stoopidly- still under it at the third tone.



1500 ft. should be plenty of time to cutaway the main and pull the reserve. I don't have any emergency procedure plans that involve pulling my reserve without cutting away the main, unless I have not pulled the pilot chute out of the pouch. I hear some people talk about "canopy transfers" but I don't think I would personally ever do that unless it was some extreme situation.

I don't think I ever had a 1500 ft. snivel on that canopy, but 1000 ft. snivels were not uncommon. And no, I had no intention of firing my reserve into a snivelling main... but 1500 seemed like a good altitude to decide whether it was actually gonna open or not... (would suck to realize around 500 ft. that what I thought was a snivel was actually a malfunction).

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There is still much to be said for mental preparation and I'm sure it's got many a jumper 'rehearsing'



That's true...

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Please consider setting your third tone a little higher.

edit - how low do you have it set?



It's set at 1500ft.



Please don't think you have to fire your reserve into a streamered main at 1500!

That is plenty of altitude to execute normal procedures.
People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

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I had the same reaction as Ron. After 2500+ jumps finding myself passing 1200 feet I responded with the quickest natural reaction. A main deployment. I didn''t have an AAD, so I wasn't concerned with 2 out during my 7 second parachute flight.

Mental review of procedure is critical, and visualizing the is procedures important. Also touching and mimicking the movements are a great drill during your handles check.

BUT

The most important thing you must do on any skydive is pull, so get your fabric out and think about it later, because you can.

jumpervali

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It's been my planned course of action to fire a reserve into a high-speed mal should I find myself -stoopidly- still under it at the third tone.



You have plenty of time to cut awy from 1500 feet....Well, OK not PLENTY, but enough. I have cut away as low as 500-600 feet.

From around a grand, a clean cutaway and reserve pull is easily done, and is ALWAYS better than just dumping the reserve into a main. In the old days it was quite the debate if you should cut away or not...Cutting away won out after several main/reserve entaglements lead to death.

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I think at that point, "more fabric out" takes precedence over a clean reserve deployment... because I don't think there's enough time for a mini-freefall (rsl, skyhook or no)



No offense, but you are wrong. From 1500 feet there is plenty of time to cut away and pull the reserve.

I would not just dump my reserve into the mess till around 600 feet myself.
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

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It wasnt a mal, but I was taking a TV personality into freefall and filming him for his show.

I got him to do 2 static lines that morning, and then we went to 10,000 ft.

For technical reasons, we got into a tumble, and he had inadvertantly grabbed my wrist.

i told him if he got OUT of MY GRIP, he was to pull, but somehow he was now gripping me.

we tumbled for an eternity, and I thought, heck, we must be getting low.

I pulled my hand out of his grip, let go of him with my other hand, and I saw him dump his Para-Commander.

I rolled over and knowing I needed 300 ft to open my Delta II Parawing, I realized I didnt have that much.

Out came the reserve, a swing and a half and my feet hit the ground.

We stood there and laughed like crazy, because he touched down right after me.

Great jump ....one of the best

Bill Cole D-41

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In my dreams, I forget to pull, hit the ground, then get really embarrassed that someone might have seen me. So I sneak off hoping no one saw. I hope that's not preparing me for anything!



:ph34r::D:ph34r:That's hilarious.. I have the same dream.. Does that man it's worse to get embarrassed than to get hurt? :S
chopchop
gotta go... Plaything needs a spanking..

Lotsa Pictures

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In my dreams, I forget to pull, hit the ground, then get really embarrassed that someone might have seen me. So I sneak off hoping no one saw. I hope that's not preparing me for anything!




I was once told that it's not the initial impact that kill but the bounce, so to stop the bounce 'GRAB THE GRASS' Did you do that in your dreams?

I do not dream (well, if I do I don't remember them) so can't test the theory in a dream and have NO intentions of testing it in real life. Supose I would give it a go if I ever have a 'total' mal. In those circumstances I TRY ANYTHING!


Get out, Land on a green bit. If you get the pull somewhere in between it would help.

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Am I to understand that your planned course of action was to fire the reserve into the snivelling main? Rich! I've never heard of a 1500ft snivel.



I lost 1,200 ft under a snivelling main, pad & handle at the ready thinking 'oh no, this is going to cost me £30' (no AAD or RSL). Got full canopy at 1,800 ft. As I was happy with the altitude, stable on heading, no line twists etc. I did not chop but another 1-2 seconds and I would have.

Not sure at what altitude I would 'go for silver' first. I believe it depend on the situation, whatever I decide I hope it's the right thing to do in the circumstances. If not, then do I want to 'live' to regret it?


Get out, Land on a green bit. If you get the pull somewhere in between it would help.

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I generally advise people NOT to rely on any battery powered device to save their life. "Pull when you hear the beep" has gotten people low (and killed them) before.



Had a private discussion with the previous owner of my rig about a Cypres fire that was recorded on the packing data card. According to them, there was head down freeflying, combined with tracking on their backs, plus a dead battery in audible altimeter that never beeped. This resulted in the person rolling over, "crapping their pants (figuratively, I hope) and throwing their main p/c". The Cypres fire created a double out condition, which was safely landed. Seems to me like we have a pretty stong ingrained stimulus to throw Mr. Hackeysack when the going gets tough, regardless of altitude or what we think we'll do about it. It DOES create a condition where we actually have to think, "no, this is too low, other handle, now FIND the other handle and punch it". I'm not honestly sure if we can all train for that, we'd like to think we can. If I'm ever that low I INTEND to pull my reserve handle. If I'm that low, my Cypres is probably going to fire regardless of which handle I do pull, so obviously it would be safer to pull the reserve for a couple of reasons, like the faster opening and only one canopy out. But it is like slamming on the brakes and if we've tossed a pilot chute hundreds or thousands of times versus pulling silver maybe zero to half a dozen times, I don't think any of us can really be sure, unless we've actually done it before.

Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity !

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I assume I might have lost altitude awareness by asking myself "do i need to pull my reserve now"
every time I look at my altimeter.

If the needle is in the action area: "pull reserve" on my altimeter my plan is to pull reserve.

After I started training this mentally in different ways, I have been low once and I went straight for reserve.

I think the hardest part of the mental training for this emergency procedure is for my ego to honestly believe in the scary thought that I could have fucked up.B| but at least this part get easier the more jumps and more mistakes I make.

-- "If you can dream it, you can DO IT!" --

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I assume I might have lost altitude awareness by asking myself "do i need to pull my reserve now"
every time I look at my altimeter.

If the needle is in the action area: "pull reserve" on my altimeter my plan is to pull reserve.

After I started training this mentally in different ways, I have been low once and I went straight for reserve.

I think the hardest part of the mental training for this emergency procedure is for my ego to honestly believe in the scary thought that I could have fucked up.B| but at least this part get easier the more jumps and more mistakes I make.



When you're in the basement, an altimeter is no longer of much use. Ground rush becomes the dominant reality, and making high-level decisions may take more time than you have.

If you ever see the ground getting visibly closer FAST, it is imperative that you get something overhead immediately. I do practice pulls three or four times per jump, but I have only yanked silver six times for real. OTOH, I have deployed BOC throwout and PUD thousands of times, and can do so instantly. I don't jump anything that snivels in particular, and the amount of altitude burned up going for the reserve is easily greater than the difference between main and reserve opening distances.

About the only time my game plan involves using the reserve when low is if the plane breaks right after takeoff. Below my cutoff altitude - which varies upon the main in use (EXTreme 99 FX or Raven IV?)and the venue (Eloy AZ or Lebanon ME?) - the plan is to unass the aircraft most rapidly (as instructed by the pilot - and I *have* been told "GET OUT OF MY AIRPLANE!" when one quit working) and pull the reserve when clear of the tail.

Above the cutoff altitude, I go to the main as expected. If we're high enough, we turn points after the emergency exit (hey, altitude is altitude...).


Blue skies,

Winsor

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Above the cutoff altitude, I go to the main as expected. If we're high enough, we turn points after the emergency exit (hey, altitude is altitude...).



I heard about a C182 emergency, jumpers were told to get out so they launched a 4 way. On another emergency when a loud bang was heard coming from the engine the pilot turned to call 'aircraft emercency' (another C182) only to see the last pair of heels disappearing out of the door.


Get out, Land on a green bit. If you get the pull somewhere in between it would help.

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A sample question for the A license in Australia is "You are in a 4-way formation and you suddenly notice you are at 1,500. What would you do?" Remembering that this is a person who has low jump numbers (like myself) what would you suggest to be the answer. Mine would be to turn, arch and pull reserve. Mind you I am going to reask my dzso when I return to jumping in 3 mths, as I am not 100% sure now I think about it. How would more experienced people answer this question, remembering it is aimed at someone who is only just finishing their A license.

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Above the cutoff altitude, I go to the main as expected. If we're high enough, we turn points after the emergency exit (hey, altitude is altitude...).



That is the funniest thing I've read all week.

Great thread.
Lee _______________________________

In a world full of people, only some want to fly, is that not crazy?
http://www.ukskydiver.co.uk

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Just a point.....
In a weekend of jumps....I make a point of on at least 1 jump, when flipping over to pull....spend a sec and just touch all those handles in the order you would pull em' (in freefall)....
It just keeps your 'stability' current when reaching for 'unusual stuff'

But I have the fastest deployed reserve in the world....why should I care;)

BTW my dytter/protrack tones have gone off at some funny times on a jump and under a deploying canopy.....they are a guide only.....I reckon your first thought on hearing them is to look straight down or at that alti!!

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>Remembering that this is a person who has low jump numbers (like
> myself) what would you suggest to be the answer. Mine would be to
> turn, arch and pull reserve.

My advice to you would be to ignore the turn and arch parts and open whatever parachute you can get to the fastest. It's probably your main. A main opening at 1500 feet isn't the end of the world, but turning, arching, then opening your reserve after spending a few seconds looking for it (it's likely you've never pulled it in freefall before) could put you dangerously low.

Other options - remember, you can turn even after you pull. If you pull and then turn, it's likely your parachute will turn somewhat as well, thus reducing your odds of a collision. Although the risk of collision isn't a big one, since if everyone else on your 4-way was happily turning points, it's going to take half a second for them to realize what it means that you just pulled. By that time you'll be decelerating away from them.

If you like the answer "go for reserve" then make sure you practice it. Jump, let yourself get a bit low (not below your normal deployment altitude, of course) then practice finding and pulling your reserve. Don't actually pull it - just make sure you can find it and get your hands on it. The important part here is to train so that it's automatic if it ever happens to you. You can't afford time to think about it when you're getting close to 1000 feet.

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Although the risk of collision isn't a big one, since if everyone else on your 4-way was happily turning points, it's going to take half a second for them to realize what it means that you just pulled. By that time you'll be decelerating away from them.



And there is a real good chance you will be a little short of team members on the your next jump.

Sparky
My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

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As with others, a few years back (I had about 400 skydives at the time) I found myself sub-1000 in freefall - my first and only automatic reaction was to deploy my main - just as a pitched my PC my cypress fired and I ended up with two out.

Although you may say "i will go for reserve" - your instinct kicks in to do the 1 thing that you have done hundreds of times before to save your life - pitch your PC...............

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> If you survive, then you've done the 'right' action.

I'd have to disagree with that. I know a few students who didn't do a damn thing, and were saved by their cypres when they didn't open their main or failed to respond to a malfunction. They did not choose the right action.

It's great when someone survives their mistakes, but that doesn't make them non-mistakes. It makes them lucky.

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