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Liemberg

Low? Straight for the reserve?

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As to whether or not you can plan to pull reserve once you know you are under a grand - that is something you can mentally practice and hopefully never have to try out for real.


According to MakeItHappen.

I do believe you can 'mentally prepare yourself' because I know people that do - but I don't think you would be succesful, mainly because I wasn't...(No, I'm not going to say where, when and how since it is not relevant)

Let's say it never crossed my mind.

This might mean a lack of mental preparation - though I wasn't under a grand then but opening at 1200ft creates the same problem (downplanes / entanglements) when you wear an AAD like most of us do nowadays...

So "who pulled it off" or knows someone that did?

Just curious...

"Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci
A thousand words...

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My answer is not there...So I'll go with my story.

I found myself low. Sub 1,000 feet.

As I rolled over and reached for my reserve handle....I tossed my main.

Instinct....I tossed my main. And at the time I only had 300 jumps.

My brain said "Reserve", but my hand threw the main faster than the thought was out of my head.

I train pull the reserve if I am low...but I know I will most likley throw the main first.

Think about it...I have 3300+ jumps. I have pulled a main 3300+ times. Of those only six times have I pulled a reserve...and that was AFTER a cutaway.

So when the shit hits the fan....Will I pull

The handle I have pulled 3300+ times?
Or the one I have pulled six times?
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

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I do believe you can 'mentally prepare yourself' because I know people that do - but I don't think you would be succesful, mainly because I wasn't...(No, I'm not going to say where, when and how since it is not relevant)



Since no one mentally prepares to screw up their dive plan and go so low, it's fair to say it would be hard to prepare to then get this part "right" afterwards.

Any effort directed at preparing for this contigency seems a bit misdirected.

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Any effort directed at preparing for this contigency seems a bit misdirected.


I agree with you but apparently for some people it is a part of their 'plan B' to do it. (Re - the quote from MakeItHappen, Ron's story, the 'preliminary results' of this poll...)

I feel that it is not a realistic plan but I am here to learn... I do have a plan B when skydiving and did execute it with success on several occasions - I recognize the value of training / mentally preparing because that kept me alive thus far...

"Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci
A thousand words...

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your poll should have read "I'm hoping to - should the situation arise".



I deliberatly spoke of 'planning' - I'm NOT hoping cause that would mean "I hope to execute my plan"... That goes without saying, but first there is a plan.

My personal experience is that I do execute my plan - which is not to say that the handling of al my mals were 'textbook', but most of them were thus far (knock on wood)
I'm not clueless (not to boast, just from experience) and I pulled silver when I couldn't get the PC out of its pocket, when a tandemdrogue was somewhere were it shouldn't have been etcetera.
I dont freeze and have even adjusted the plan*)
I go over the drills every skydive and I teach others to do the same (of course in the end it is up to them to decide how vigerous they should be)
Obviously there's a train of tought that says 'when you are having too much fun and find yourself in the basement - pull reserve'
In order to do that you should know where the basement starts and plan to do it when the situation arises
I doubt it is realistic - but already there is someone who knows someone who did it.
(I'd love to have someone mark choice one AND tell us the story... even if it is nothing else than 'been there done that'...)

*) I used to jump with tapewells. The drill was
1. Grab tapewells (one left, one right)
2. Look at reservehandle and release main canopy
3. Grab reservehandle and pull

I had a mal where my right side tapewell released on opening and as I grab the other tapewell with one hand, my other hand was on the reservehandle.


"Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci
A thousand words...

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1. I mentally prepare NOT to be in that situation.

2. If I fail at number 1, my mental preparation is that if I find myself under TWO grand, I'm going silver. My canopy snivels about a grand, so there's no need for me to do a mathematical equation to ascertain "if" I'm encroaching into my AAD's firing range.
Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

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>I always go straight for my reserve ripcord in my dreams. I think
>this counts for mentally preparation.

In my dreams, I forget to pull, hit the ground, then get really embarrassed that someone might have seen me. So I sneak off hoping no one saw. I hope that's not preparing me for anything!

I think the problem with most people is not that they don't think of going for their reserve, it's that they can't stop themselves from opening their main. It's like driving and having someone cut in front of you and trying to NOT step on the brake. It's very hard to do unless you practice doing exactly that.

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I'm not going to discuss my dreams with you.

In my skydiving dreams I see skydivers land with nothing out, stand up and walk away...
(I always think:"damn that was a good trick, I should learn how to do that!")

Luckily now I know who that was :)
My non-skydiving dreams? :$

No, really...

"Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci
A thousand words...

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Not sure what I will do when and if that ever happens I do not have enough experience.


But I plan to pull my reserve if I ever find my self under 2000 feet. My canopy takes and extremely long time to fully inflate witch I think is a good thing but some times it just takes too long.
I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

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I believe one can 'mentally prepare yourself.

I have been low and went for the reserve at 1,500’ the pin was pulled was obviously lower because my cypress fired after the pin was pulled since the loop was not cut. Did I take the right action? I think so.

Some might post why so high you should have given your main a shot first and that’s their view. But in response when I dump the main a VX 103 I have been averaging about 800 openings the majority of the time and throwing out the main would have saddled me out around 700’, not enough time for a reserve if I needed to use it. Plus I would have, in this situation have had two canopies out.

In the past I have thought about at what altitude will I go for the reserve instead of the main, and a good buddy has his old ditter set at 1,500’ and that’s the altitude he goes for the reserve with out question, he wants it to be an automatic response. His reasons why are with in the pervious paragraph of which I have adopted. He jumped a stiletto when he first told me about his ditter settings and now jumps a velocity with his ditter still set at 1,500’.
Memento Mori

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In the past I have thought about at what altitude will I go for the reserve instead of the main, and a good buddy has his old ditter set at 1,500’ and that’s the altitude he goes for the reserve with out question, he wants it to be an automatic response.



Perhaps that's the answer to actually physically preparing yourself? Use that audible tone as a training aid? I have my last audible warning set at 1500 feet too. My idea is that if I hear the flatline, I'm pulling the rip chord... be that whether I'm burning in under a fast mal (stoo-pid)... or still in freefall (also stoo-pid).

I hadn't actually thought of it until I read your post. But each time I hear someone testing their ditters (you know how to test the three tones right?) I always find myslef doing the mimmick reserve pull at the third tone.

I actually do have it embeded in the brain that that tone means "Pull the Silver handle"



My Karma ran over my Dogma!!!

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>and a good buddy has his old ditter set at 1,500’ and that’s the altitude
> he goes for the reserve with out question, he wants it to be an automatic
> response.

I generally advise people NOT to rely on any battery powered device to save their life. "Pull when you hear the beep" has gotten people low (and killed them) before.

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I generally advise people NOT to rely on any battery powered device to save their life.



I agree the Beep is just to remind you to look at your altimeter. As for those who rely heavily on then there is one thing that can be said, if they have an “A” license, or better, that makes them big boys and girls they know consequences. ;)

I'm done. :)
Memento Mori

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I generally advise people NOT to rely on any battery powered device to save their life. "Pull when you hear the beep" has gotten people low (and killed them) before.



and (lug):

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I agree the Beep is just to remind you to look at your altimeter.



Agreed, however we are not currently discussing how one determines when to deploy. We are currently discussing how one may determine they are low enough that they should pull the reserve immediately.

I think my third audible tone is one indication that I should do just this.. Of course, any sign that I was at 1500' and still hummin' would do the trick. It's been asked though, "How do you train to do this?"

I don't say "Pull when you hear the beep" per say, rather: "If you hear the beep, pull silver"



My Karma ran over my Dogma!!!

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Did I take the right action? I think so.


Since you are here to tell us the story... :)
Now at least we know it can be done. To me there was never a question if this was the right course of action given enough 'situational awareness' - I just doubted that people actually did it in the past.

I stand corrected and from now on will 'mentally prepare myself' (whatever that means) to do the same should I ever find myself there...
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the altitude he goes for the reserve with out question, he wants it to be an automatic response.


And given the speed of the event automatic response is what is needed IMO.

"Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci
A thousand words...

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I have my last audible warning set at 1500 feet too. My idea is that if I hear the flatline, I'm pulling the rip chord...



This was my exact thought too... and always, when practicing emergency procedures I would practice going for the reserve (or cutting away and pulling the reserve) if I ever heard the flatline (also set at 1500 feet). Twice now I have heard the flatline (once right as I was pulling my main and once while still under a snivelling main); both times my instinct overwrote what I had practiced and I did NOT go for the reserve. So I think it's pretty hard to train yourself to do that since it is (hopefully) such an unusual situation. You're probably better off spending that time trying to train yourself to not end up low.

Oh, and if I was jumping with an AAD, I would probably set my flatline higher than 1500 so that I would have more time to deal with whatever is going on before finding myself under two canopies (especially now that I have demonstrated to myself that it is unlikely I'll actually go for the reserve when I hear the flatline). And now that I think about it, I might change mine to 2000 anyway; 1500 ft is kinda low.

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Twice now I have heard the flatline (once right as I was pulling my main and once while still under a snivelling main); both times my instinct overwrote what I had practiced and I did NOT go for the reserve.



But neither of those two cases are what you had supposedly practiced for. And neither of those cases would warant the reserve being deployed. Case one, "right as I was pulling my main", you've not practiced halting your main deployment because of the tone and going for silver.. you've practiced going to silver at the tone. Obviously you're in a different situation if you've already got a hand on the hackey and the third tone starts then you are in if you're just simply still falling, unaware, and hear the tone.

Case two, "still under a snivelling main", you've not practiced deploying a reserve because your main snivel takes you below the tone. You've practiced deploying a reserve because there is no canopy and you hear the tone.

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So I think it's pretty hard to train yourself to do that since it is (hopefully) such an unusual situation. You're probably better off spending that time trying to train yourself to not end up low.



Agreed with the better off bit... But I'm still quite conviced that if I find myself listening to the third tone and I'm still in freefall (like an idiot), I will go straight to silver.



My Karma ran over my Dogma!!!

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Case two, "still under a snivelling main", you've not practiced deploying a reserve because your main snivel takes you below the tone.



Actually, this is exactly why I started practicing going for the reserve if I should hear the flatline. I had a main that would snivel so long that I often wondered if it was gonna open (and always had to pump the slider down to make it open). So I was afraid if I ever went low that I might snivel right into the ground. So I was surprised to see that when the situation actually occurred, I did not do what I had always practiced doing.

You're right about the other case - I had never thought about what to do if the siren went off right as I was pulling the hackey. But on that jump, I knew I was low before I heard the flatline and my automatic reaction was to pull the main even though I had mentally prepared to go for the reserve if I ever ended up low.

I don't know... think I'll just try to avoid getting in that situation again. ;) I'm still here, so whatever I did was the right thing at the time, but it might not work out as well if there is a next time...

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Actually, this is exactly why I started practicing going for the reserve if I should hear the flatline. I had a main that would snivel so long that I often wondered if it was gonna open (and always had to pump the slider down to make it open). So I was afraid if I ever went low that I might snivel right into the ground. So I was surprised to see that when the situation actually occurred, I did not do what I had always practiced doing.




Am I to understand that your planned course of action was to fire the reserve into the snivelling main? Rich! I've never heard of a 1500ft snivel.

It's been my planned course of action to fire a reserve into a high-speed mal should I find myself -stoopidly- still under it at the third tone. I think at that point, "more fabric out" takes precedence over a clean reserve deployment... because I don't think there's enough time for a mini-freefall (rsl, skyhook or no)

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I don't know... think I'll just try to avoid getting in that situation again. ;) I'm still here, so whatever I did was the right thing at the time, but it might not work out as well if there is a next time...



Here here. I'm loving this thread though. There is still much to be said for mental preparation and I'm sure it's got many a jumper 'rehearsing'



My Karma ran over my Dogma!!!

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It's been my planned course of action to fire a reserve into a high-speed mal should I find myself -stoopidly- still under it at the third tone. I think at that point, "more fabric out" takes precedence over a clean reserve deployment... because I don't think there's enough time for a mini-freefall (rsl, skyhook or no)



Please consider setting your third tone a little higher.

edit - how low do you have it set?
People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

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